Masterplan of Planet Coaster

[Joël]

Everyone at Frontier cares deeply about the games that we make and the people that play them. We really appreciate all of your feedback, and we welcome it. It really helps the teams shape the experiences you are asking for – wherever possible.

We are well aware of the feedback you’re providing, and the problems some people are having. That’s why these forums are here; that’s why support and the dev team read to help them prioritise features and fixes. We do weekly livestreams to get the community together and enjoy a game we love; I know that for some people who might be less vocal online, those weekly moments are incredibly important. It’s why people on the team and myself take that time to talk to you, try to answer questions, and listen to your feedback in the chat.

We cannot make changes as quickly as some would like… It’s simply not how game development works. Everybody has a different opinion on what their ‘perfect version' of Planet Coaster looks like, so it would be a very difficult balance to achieve – we’re doing our best to try to achieve that balance.
Because of this we are as active as we possibly can be with our communications: we are active on the forums, we do the livestreams, we host events for you to attend – and we do implement things based on what you say (even if it’s not possible for it to be in the timeframe some of you want it to be).

The reason we cannot always tell you in advance what we are working on, is because we don’t want to talk about or promise you features when they are not 100% perfect in our vision. Sometimes things we want to put in the game end up being a massive challenge for the team, and they need to be fluid in their work and their ability to get it implemented. In the meantime, we continue to gather feedback and do our best to solve your reported bugs.

TLDR: We’ve heard the feedback regarding the Anniversary Update. We as a team stand behind the update, since there's new fun content that we've shown you at FX2017. The developers are passionate about it, we’re excited to show you how everything works, and we are thankful for the messages of love and support we’ve received both at the Expo and afterwards.

Thank you for understanding.
[heart]
Bo

Hey Bo,

Thank you for taking the time to explain how things work when it comes to development of Planet Coaster (and any other game developed by Frontier). It is appreciated that you reassure us that you as a team do indeed read and consider the feedback posted on these forums and on other places, and that the team needs to consider a balance when it comes to developing content for the game.

Talking to Andy C last weekend only further reassured that the team really does listen to our feedback and is considering everything. I'd love to talk about it in more detail, but I don't have the time right now.

Thanks again.

:rex::face:

 

[jamesviago]

i agree.
i chatted with several Frontier staff at FX17, and particularly enjoyed chatting with andy F, andy C, and jonny; they are all SO passionate and committed, and all mentioned that the forum (and other social media) are important to them.
quite an amazing company and culture.

 

[Jammy3112]

Thank you Bo for explaining that.

The work Frontier put in behind the scenes is incredible, and keeping the community so involved is what makes them one of the best developers out there.

 

[En Anu]

i agree.
i chatted with several Frontier staff at FX17, and particularly enjoyed chatting with andy F, andy C, and jonny; they are all SO passionate and committed, and all mentioned that the forum (and other social media) are important to them.
quite an amazing company and culture.

James, when you met them what did they say about regarding base game - optimisation, coaster smoothness, terrain tools, building tools, more guest brain AI, security feature improved, management side also other potentially future projects such as animatronics maker, complete expansion packs as like RCT 3?

 

[jamesviago]

James, when you met them what did they say about regarding base game - optimisation, coaster smoothness, terrain tools, building tools, more guest brain AI, security feature improved, management side also other potentially future projects such as animatronics maker, complete expansion packs as like RCT 3?

That's a very specific list!
Here's what I recall, briefly...
Smoothness I answered in another thread.
The base game is getting more love.
The guest ai is trickier than we realise, and is getting attention.
Optimization is ongoing.
Management feedback from the forums is understood and getting attention.

And lastly, we need to be patient, in real life things take a lot longer to get right than we tend to think, (like 9 months for things we think are 3 months), due to all the integration and interconnectedness of everything.

Other comments I heard: multiplayer is a huge technical challenge, not happening. Building tools will likely improve (e.g.grid), multiple grids in single building causes crashes that are very hard to debug.

All of the above were explained to groups of people, so others may be able to add to what I've relayed.

 

[seeker939]

That's a very specific list!
Here's what I recall, briefly...
Smoothness I answered in another thread.
The base game is getting more love.
The guest ai is trickier than we realise, and is getting attention.
Optimization is ongoing.
Management feedback from the forums is understood and getting attention.

And lastly, we need to be patient, in real life things take a lot longer to get right than we tend to think, (like 9 months for things we think are 3 months), due to all the integration and interconnectedness of everything.

Other comments I heard: multiplayer is a huge technical challenge, not happening. Building tools will likely improve (e.g.grid), multiple grids in single building causes crashes that are very hard to debug.

All of the above were explained to groups of people, so others may be able to add to what I've relayed.

I suggest they hire you to be the Bo for development related stuff! [haha] [wink] [up]

 

[Falqonone]

Yes, I get that, just seems rather low, I mean I've never seen it rise above 3/4000, even after an update, oh well, moving on.....[happy]

Planet Coaster Isn't really the type of game you play everyday like for example PUBG, Battlefield, Skyrim/Fallout, its not competitive or challenging, its just some creative casual fun, therefore on average there won't be a lot of users online. Atleast, thats how I see it. Also you knda have to be in that ''creative mood'' to play as well which might be a factor.

 

[En Anu]

That's a very specific list!
Here's what I recall, briefly...
Smoothness I answered in another thread.
The base game is getting more love.
The guest ai is trickier than we realise, and is getting attention.
Optimization is ongoing.
Management feedback from the forums is understood and getting attention.

And lastly, we need to be patient, in real life things take a lot longer to get right than we tend to think, (like 9 months for things we think are 3 months), due to all the integration and interconnectedness of everything.

Other comments I heard: multiplayer is a huge technical challenge, not happening. Building tools will likely improve (e.g.grid), multiple grids in single building causes crashes that are very hard to debug.

All of the above were explained to groups of people, so others may be able to add to what I've relayed.

In a nutshell most of what you have come to discover at the meet up is WIP! Yes, I read your response on other thread and have replied there.

British Rail slogan was 'We're getting there' and when did then then went privatised

What I mean is that by the time these 'issues' have been sorted out it would be time to buy Planet Coaster 'the sequel' and will it be compatible with beta possible not, so therefore this could be seen as a learning exercise and then start with a different software concept, your thoughts?

 

[jamesviago]

In a nutshell most of what you have come to discover at the meet up is WIP! Yes, I read your response on other thread and have replied there.

British Rail slogan was 'We're getting there' and when did then then went privatised

What I mean is that by the time these 'issues' have been sorted out it would be time to buy Planet Coaster 'the sequel' and will it be compatible with beta possible not, so therefore this could be seen as a learning exercise and then start with a different software concept, your thoughts?

Hmmm. Philosophy and business in one short post. Lol.
Historically I know that the death of 90% of software, post release, is the spiral of doom as the defect count rises. More and more resources are consumed controlling the defects, and the backlog swells as the complexity and interaction between components increases. What feeds the spiral? Rushing. Deadlines. Customer-facing promises.
What stops the spiral? Slow down, get it right. Keep the defect count down. Even at the expense of deadlines, angry customers, etc. Customers frustrated by slow features will forgive. Customers frustrated by crap product and defects will not.

I was very, very impressed by the Frontier team and culture at FX17, as they seem to believe the above ethic. Therefore, I believe they are in for the long haul. They will support and update and enhance this game for a decade, if we too continue to support, play, give feedback and buy dlc. That's philosophy and business, right there.
We won't need a "sequel".

A decade from now, the Cobra engine will have had two or three more major iteration upgrades and so the game will constantly be improving, even without a sequel. Provided the dlc revenue stream keeps getting support.

I've already suggested an "Annual Pass". I'd pay $20 per year automatically on my credit card to have Early Access (or even immediate access) to all dlc. And, that would give Frontier more reassurance as to future revenue from PC. I don't like micro transaction dlc, as I have to make a purchase, each time.

But to get back to your question... I'm betting on the long haul, the game standing the test of time, and many updates for many years.

 

[Ramm]

Hey Bo,

Thank you for taking the time to explain how things work when it comes to development of Planet Coaster (and any other game developed by Frontier). It is appreciated that you reassure us that you as a team do indeed read and consider the feedback posted on these forums and on other places, and that the team needs to consider a balance when it comes to developing content for the game.

Talking to Andy C last weekend only further reassured that the team really does listen to our feedback and is considering everything. I'd love to talk about it in more detail, but I don't have the time right now.

Thanks again.

:rex::face:

Im really interested to hear what you've learned what we don't know yet if you have the time to share it.

 

[En Anu]

Hmmm. Philosophy and business in one short post. Lol.
Historically I know that the death of 90% of software, post release, is the spiral of doom as the defect count rises. More and more resources are consumed controlling the defects, and the backlog swells as the complexity and interaction between components increases. What feeds the spiral? Rushing. Deadlines. Customer-facing promises.
What stops the spiral? Slow down, get it right. Keep the defect count down. Even at the expense of deadlines, angry customers, etc. Customers frustrated by slow features will forgive. Customers frustrated by crap product and defects will not.

I was very, very impressed by the Frontier team and culture at FX17, as they seem to believe the above ethic. Therefore, I believe they are in for the long haul. They will support and update and enhance this game for a decade, if we too continue to support, play, give feedback and buy dlc. That's philosophy and business, right there.
We won't need a "sequel".

A decade from now, the Cobra engine will have had two or three more major iteration upgrades and so the game will constantly be improving, even without a sequel. Provided the dlc revenue stream keeps getting support.

I've already suggested an "Annual Pass". I'd pay $20 per year automatically on my credit card to have Early Access (or even immediate access) to all dlc. And, that would give Frontier more reassurance as to future revenue from PC. I don't like micro transaction dlc, as I have to make a purchase, each time.

But to get back to your question... I'm betting on the long haul, the game standing the test of time, and many updates for many years.

Believe, believe, what is this a cult, next we will be immersed in amanita muscarias

I can see the logical steps you are pointing to and that makes sense. My biggest concern is more transparancy and dialogue with the community and if the devs keep us informed more with regard to past enquiries it will create more confidence amongst consumers and therefore will purchase more DLCs. I suppose it is all down to cause and effect.

 

[breezerHOG1]

What I mean is that by the time these 'issues' have been sorted out it would be time to buy Planet Coaster 'the sequel' and will it be compatible with beta possible not, so therefore this could be seen as a learning exercise and then start with a different software concept, your thoughts?

RCT3 took 2 years to develop (1 year for the main game, 1 year for both expansions) and we didnt see a sequel to RCT for like 12 years

Planet Coaster is taking much longer to develop... IF the devs plan on releasing similar expansions with water parks or safaris, it is going to take a few years before they are finished, PC takes a lot longer to develop than RCT did. But just like with RCT3, I really dont see there being a sequel to Planet Coaster anytime soon... Imagine if next year they release water rides, and then maybe the year after that they release safaris... theres still more potential for this game to receive more updates and other add-ons, including the possibility of Mods, CSO/UGC, etc.

My point is, if the devs start working on PC2 in a couple years, they would not be able to "recapture" what they have here... they can release expansions or add-ons to PC1, they can make the expansions compatible with the Steam workshop, but starting a all new sequel with new graphics would seem like it would take way to long for very little value... nobody wants to buy a new theme park game with less features, people want more features to be added in to THIS game. So, I wouldnt even let a sequel cross your mind until long after they officially announce Planet Safari, weve got a long ways to go.

 

[mr.sugar]

RCT3 took 2 years to develop (1 year for the main game, 1 year for both expansions) and we didnt see a sequel to RCT for like 12 years

Planet Coaster is taking much longer to develop... IF the devs plan on releasing similar expansions with water parks or safaris, it is going to take a few years before they are finished, PC takes a lot longer to develop than RCT did. But just like with RCT3, I really dont see there being a sequel to Planet Coaster anytime soon... Imagine if next year they release water rides, and then maybe the year after that they release safaris... theres still more potential for this game to receive more updates and other add-ons, including the possibility of Mods, CSO/UGC, etc.

My point is, if the devs start working on PC2 in a couple years, they would not be able to "recapture" what they have here... they can release expansions or add-ons to PC1, they can make the expansions compatible with the Steam workshop, but starting a all new sequel with new graphics would seem like it would take way to long for very little value... nobody wants to buy a new theme park game with less features, people want more features to be added in to THIS game. So, I wouldnt even let a sequel cross your mind until long after they officially announce Planet Safari, weve got a long ways to go.

Where is that info about RCT3 development time from? Because the game was announced in March 2004, released in October/November 2004. However, announcement time =/= development time. When RCT3 was announcement, it was already in very advanced stages od the development. I don´t think what you say here is very accurate.

 

[breezerHOG1]

I don´t think what you say here is very accurate.

RCT2 released October 2002, and was developed by Chris Sawyer

The RCT2 expansions were developed by Frontier along with the help of Chris Sawyer

Developement for RCT3 began after RCT2 was completed, so that would be in 2003

Either do the math, or search google, the info is out there

 

[mr.sugar]

RCT2 released October 2002, and was developed by Chris Sawyer

The RCT2 expansions were developed by Frontier along with the help of Chris Sawyer

Developement for RCT3 began after RCT2 was completed, so that would be in 2003

Either do the math, or search google, the info is out there

We can probably agree here that expansions for RCT2 would not make entire Frontier busy. It´s very likely the development was parallel at some point. Because development usually work like that (company is usually working on more titles at once, or at least have pre-production running while still developing another game) and what they showed when the game was announced was definitely more than like 4-5 months of work, because the game was already quite playable.
If I do the math, it must have been at least 2 years for the base game.

 

[breezerHOG1]

expansions for RCT2 would not make entire Frontier busy. It´s very likely the development was parallel

Actually, Frontier was "learning" the RCT code while they worked on the RCT2 expansions. It was not a parellel process.
Even still, they had 1 to 1.5 years of development time when RCT3 released, remember Frontier was just starting out back then

what they showed when the game was announced was definitely more than like 4-5 months of work, because the game was already quite playable. If I do the math, it must have been at least 2 years for the base game.

Actually RCT3 ran kind of crappy when it was first released and required several patches to improve stability, and the wild expansion was really bad because Atari rushed Frontier to make a dealine, thats why Atari and Frontier have been in court for many many years

 

[mr.sugar]

Actually, Frontier was "learning" they RCT code while the worked on the RCT2 expansions. It was not a parellel process.
Even still, they had 1 to 1.5 years of development time

What code they were learning? Like from RCT2 code? Is there an article about the development somewhere actually?

This "learning" was nothing else but normal development and they worked on the game and it´s engine.

 

[breezerHOG1]

Chris Sawyer: I was a consultant on the game during development of RollerCoaster Tycoon 3 for the PC in 2003/2004, because Frontier created expansion packs for RollerCoaster Tycoon 2 and went on to create RollerCoaster Tycoon 3.

 

[mr.sugar]

Chris Sawyer: I was a consultant on the game during development of RollerCoaster Tycoon 3 for the PC in 2003/2004, but wasn't involved in their recent conversion of the game.

Ok, it doesn´t mean he was there from the start, for instance, when they started working on the engine.

 

[breezerHOG1]

Ok, it doesn´t mean he was there from the start, for instance, when they started working on the engine.

ok bro, you got me. Frontier started on rct3 without chris back in 2002, before rct2 was finished

(I Think you missed the point of my original post though...)