General [MEGATHREAD] Rebalances and fixes for the progression system, risk/reward ratio, ingame learning curves, pvp, and more!

What do you think of the idea that making a long term pledge to existing in open mode means that all profits from all enterprises including power play salaries receive a hefty bonus?
I think it shouldn't effect existing game loops. This should just be a new type of game loop and it should be very profitable due to the risk. Some kind of combat salary from your Power play master.
 
I think it shouldn't effect existing game loops. This should just be a new type of game loop and it should be very profitable due to the risk. Some kind of combat salary from your Power play master.
I was thinking in terms of attracting people to open mode. A hefty enough bonus can take a lot of sting out of losing in PVP. Say a 25% bonus for a week of being contracted to open mode, 50% for a month, and 100% for a year? I was thinking all activities just to entice players to open mode but if being pledge to a power as a prerequisite makes sense, then ok.
 
I was thinking in terms of attracting people to open mode. A hefty enough bonus can take a lot of sting out of losing in PVP. Say a 25% bonus for a week of being contracted to open mode, 50% for a month, and 100% for a year? I was thinking all activities just to entice players to open mode but if being pledge to a power as a prerequisite makes sense, then ok.
People wont see that as a benefit. They will see it as a punishment. If you are going to do something that is a draw for people to come to open (only) it has to be something new and something that makes sense as open only.
 
People wont see that as a benefit. They will see it as a punishment. If you are going to do something that is a draw for people to come to open (only) it has to be something new and something that makes sense as open only.
You are right of course. It will be seen as a penalty to being in solo. Not mention, there will be concern about hyper inflation.
 
People wont see that as a benefit. They will see it as a punishment. If you are going to do something that is a draw for people to come to open (only) it has to be something new and something that makes sense as open only.
What about adding a 50 million bonus to the existing salary except if you get killed you lose this 50 million and the one who killed you gets the 50 million? But, if you get a kill on someone else on the opposing side, you get his entire bonus. For every 50 million you have, you affect the power play more when you do something for it, but you are also more noticed by NPCs and stations who scan you and your notoriety means you show up on the appropriate message boards on stations when you are spotted so that you will be more widely hunted? Resets each week.
 
What about adding a 50 million bonus to the existing salary except if you get killed you lose this 50 million and the one who killed you gets the 50 million? But, if you get a kill on someone else on the opposing side, you get his entire bonus. For every 50 million you have, you affect the power play more when you do something for it, but you are also more noticed by NPCs and stations who scan you and your notoriety means you show up on the appropriate message boards on stations when you are spotted so that you will be more widely hunted? Resets each week.
Sorry to have to quote myself, but I just wanted to add something. Those in solo or group play get the extra bonus too except they can't lose it. So the bonuses to activities that affect power play, they get are spread evenly among solo and group players. The difference with PVP, is that you can win the opposing sides bonuses and get an advantage but the number of bonuses total still equal the number of players. Also, I just wanted to clarify, that you could win a flat 50 for each kill meaning if you had 250 million in bonuses, you would only lose 50 for each death, but I prefer that it all be lost. Meaning that if you lose, you lose the entire 250 million to the opposition. This means as you rack up bonuses you are more effective at power play but you will also be more targeted and as a consequence, some people might even want to protect their profit by laying low toward the end of the power play weekly cycle. That could give the losing side a greater advantage toward the end of the cycle since they have less to lose.
 
I have been putting off making a extremely long post about why the vast majority of these suggestions wont fix any issues. But i keep stopping thinking if its really worth laying it all out. The problem is most people put forward quick fix solutions with the thinking that their idea is the best and it will totally work, but the core issue runs FAR deeper then what their suggestion aims to fix.

There is, at the current moment of ED, NOTHING, that will correct the open/solo/pg debate thats raging that can implemented with a simple on off/value tweek/disable enabled in x mode only. The only way to fix the problems is massive overhaul and implementation of dozens of new mechanics and systems. If some one really wanted i could try to sum up the best i can for the most bare minimum needed to have this whole open vs closed things to be settled.

The TL;DR of it is this, currently, this is zero benefit to playing in open over pg/solo, if anything players stand more to loose then gain. The idea that simply increaseing rewards for people in open mode will do absolutely nothing. This same idea was tried before in world of warcraft with warmode, which is optional world pvp that if you opted into you got like a 15% bonus to rewards, however it was quickly found out that it was far better to play the game with out the 15% and be able to go about your day peacefully and with garuntee of not getting ganked and camped, then it was for the 15%. Even if we assume in ED, LTD's sold for 100% more, i could sell 400 credits worth of diamonds in open in my 143m credit mining ship, Cool, except now if i get blown up, i loose all that profit, and cost of the ship to be replaced, and the time it cost to mine it. Or i could just play in solo, and sell it all with a garuntee of the goods making it there for, i and the majority of players, are gonna take the safe route.

At the end of the day, there is not a single thing taht will ever fix this debate with out screwing over one side or the other, without doing massive game mechanic overhauls.
 
I have been putting off making a extremely long post about why the vast majority of these suggestions wont fix any issues. But i keep stopping thinking if its really worth laying it all out. The problem is most people put forward quick fix solutions with the thinking that their idea is the best and it will totally work, but the core issue runs FAR deeper then what their suggestion aims to fix.

There is, at the current moment of ED, NOTHING, that will correct the open/solo/pg debate thats raging that can implemented with a simple on off/value tweek/disable enabled in x mode only. The only way to fix the problems is massive overhaul and implementation of dozens of new mechanics and systems. If some one really wanted i could try to sum up the best i can for the most bare minimum needed to have this whole open vs closed things to be settled.

The TL;DR of it is this, currently, this is zero benefit to playing in open over pg/solo, if anything players stand more to loose then gain. The idea that simply increaseing rewards for people in open mode will do absolutely nothing. This same idea was tried before in world of warcraft with warmode, which is optional world pvp that if you opted into you got like a 15% bonus to rewards, however it was quickly found out that it was far better to play the game with out the 15% and be able to go about your day peacefully and with garuntee of not getting ganked and camped, then it was for the 15%. Even if we assume in ED, LTD's sold for 100% more, i could sell 400 credits worth of diamonds in open in my 143m credit mining ship, Cool, except now if i get blown up, i loose all that profit, and cost of the ship to be replaced, and the time it cost to mine it. Or i could just play in solo, and sell it all with a garuntee of the goods making it there for, i and the majority of players, are gonna take the safe route.

At the end of the day, there is not a single thing taht will ever fix this debate with out screwing over one side or the other, without doing massive game mechanic overhauls.
Don't kill yourself, but try to lay out that summary of fixes.
 
I have been putting off making a extremely long post about why the vast majority of these suggestions wont fix any issues. But i keep stopping thinking if its really worth laying it all out. The problem is most people put forward quick fix solutions with the thinking that their idea is the best and it will totally work, but the core issue runs FAR deeper then what their suggestion aims to fix.

There is, at the current moment of ED, NOTHING, that will correct the open/solo/pg debate thats raging that can implemented with a simple on off/value tweek/disable enabled in x mode only. The only way to fix the problems is massive overhaul and implementation of dozens of new mechanics and systems. If some one really wanted i could try to sum up the best i can for the most bare minimum needed to have this whole open vs closed things to be settled.

The TL;DR of it is this, currently, this is zero benefit to playing in open over pg/solo, if anything players stand more to loose then gain. The idea that simply increaseing rewards for people in open mode will do absolutely nothing. This same idea was tried before in world of warcraft with warmode, which is optional world pvp that if you opted into you got like a 15% bonus to rewards, however it was quickly found out that it was far better to play the game with out the 15% and be able to go about your day peacefully and with garuntee of not getting ganked and camped, then it was for the 15%. Even if we assume in ED, LTD's sold for 100% more, i could sell 400 credits worth of diamonds in open in my 143m credit mining ship, Cool, except now if i get blown up, i loose all that profit, and cost of the ship to be replaced, and the time it cost to mine it. Or i could just play in solo, and sell it all with a garuntee of the goods making it there for, i and the majority of players, are gonna take the safe route.

At the end of the day, there is not a single thing taht will ever fix this debate with out screwing over one side or the other, without doing massive game mechanic overhauls.
Finally, some sanity. Powerplay however doesnt need massive game mechanics overhauls for this, since it is setup for direct player vs player competition already. Admittedly this does depend on your meaning of massive

Powerplay is sadly borked in a number of ways that makes conflict between powers a farce currently; Overpowered ability to damage a Power from within, inability to shed bad systems without damaging your own power from within. Also underpowered conventional attacks versus overpowered conventional defence which incentivises OP Fifth Column actions further and votes linked to simple number of accounts duration of pledge (maxing at 16 weeks) + minmal contribution of effort (which can itself be entirely harmful as the mechanics currently do not allow for a distinction between beneficial and harmful actions) Since consoles can create as many cmdrs as they have 'users' (due to standard PS/microsoft terms) this allows console vote-farms which can take over powers since a hijack can be achieved at only 25% vote control, and destruction is all but assured at 50%.

This sounds like a long list, but the solution to all of it, including the Modes divide can be achieved with background 'numbers' fixes and re-using already exisiting ingame assets. So the Dev time & effort required is minimalised compared to any other additions made to the game (far less than the 'new player experience' for example)
Rubbernuke has a proposal in the works that would fix all of this.
Don't kill yourself, but try to lay out that summary of fixes.
Youre asking for years of game experience 'in a nutshell', but see above for the kind of detail required for a 'simple fix' for Powerplay, which is nearest to a workable Open/PG/Solo balance, of any ED game aspect.
 
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Power play and BGS has nothing to do with the problem of why people dont want to play in open, Its only stage for the issue. Changing Powerplay will do nothing, thats not a problem its a symptom of the problem.
 
Power play and BGS has nothing to do with the problem of why people dont want to play in open, Its only stage for the issue. Changing Powerplay will do nothing, thats not a problem its a symptom of the problem.
It makes no sense to fill any buckets in Open for either BGS or Powerplay. That is the problem. BGS at least has localised & variable game loops, and isnt a simple linear grind. Powerplay doesnt, it is pure grind Vs grind between playergroups unless it's done in Open, & then the variability and dynamism emerges.
But given a choice between being more efficient, and 'making the game a better place' many choose efficiency. Not surprising when every other decision you make in Powerplay is based on what is 'most efficient' to do.

Skewed benefits to reflect risk Vs reward creates a 'second class citizen' effect on Solo/PG, which is undesirable to say the least.

Any PvP mechanics (combat or piracy) are non-starters due to collusion being 100% effective and being much quicker, so incentivising 5C in one more way. Since playergroups have no control over who can pledge or be depledged (and nor should they) 5C needs to be heavily reduced in impact.

Mechanics changes for Powerplay can make a big difference for a lot of people who follow the path of least resistance. The challenge is to find a way to enable them, without disenfrancising those who wont play in Open for other reasons.
And there are ways to acheive this.
 
It makes no sense to fill any buckets in Open for either BGS or Powerplay. That is the problem.
Its really not though, BGS activities are all pve activities anyway, doing pvp does not really effect those, other then just make them take longer.

And powerplay has nothing to do with it, because the vast, VAST, majority of players dont care about powerplay at all, they pledge for they 4 week, get their modules they need, then leave because there is no reason to be a part of it, the rewards for pledging are horrible even at the highest rank its not worth doing. Like think about it, how many people do you think pledge devul just to get their prismatic shields, then dip? All those mechanics are for is to give some kinda semblance to a story or living world.

Like right now, if Fdev changed it so only open can effect powerplay, your not gonna see any noticeable difference.

at most, people just use the powerplay backdrop as an excuse to kill and murderize people that are not pledged to their faction.

Like i said, BGS and powerplay have nothing to do with the reason people dont want to play open. They are so insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

The issues for why people dont want to play open are tied to core game mechanics and features, or lack there of that does not create any reason or incentive to play in open, and only actually hinders it unless you are flying a combat fit ship.
 
I'm not saying that's bad at all, that's what it's there for. I'm saying power play is not the cause of people not wanting to play open.
Most people know that- but it illustrates how modes applied haphazardly wrecks features. Thats the problem. FD are blanket applying a mode to the whole game and expecting it to fit everything and it does not. What I say is to stop that, and focus on making existing features suit modes better. The BGS suits multi mode, along with the basic game. Powerplay suits open more, so tune it to that (whole or in part- I prefer the latter with dedicated solo PG tasks that assist the power separately).
 
See I think power play overall is just super unimportant anyway since the majority of players using it are doing so just for the module for pve then dipping out because they don't care.

If they offered a way to earn or buy the modules locked behind the 4 week pledge, no one would care about power play.
 
See I think power play overall is just super unimportant anyway since the majority of players using it are doing so just for the module for pve then dipping out because they don't care.

If they offered a way to earn or buy the modules locked behind the 4 week pledge, no one would care about power play.
A lot of people, certainly. 'Serious' PP players probably number below 1000. And if it got changed? A lot of random noise would go, which changes little from the perspective of people engaging with Powerplay fully.
 
A lot of people, certainly. 'Serious' PP players probably number below 1000. And if it got changed? A lot of random noise would go, which changes little from the perspective of people engaging with Powerplay fully.

And that just goes back to my overall point of, I don't think power play has any meaningful impact on people not wanting to play open.

Hell it anything giving players the ability to earn power play modules with out needing to "flag" themself for combat would help, again not in a meaningful way, with more people wanting to play open.
Like if you could just go about my day with out getting shot just because I'm "pledged" to someone I don't care about at all and I'm just stuck behind a time gate, that would be nice.
 
And that just goes back to my overall point of, I don't think power play has any meaningful impact on people not wanting to play open.

Hell it anything giving players the ability to earn power play modules with out needing to "flag" themself for combat would help, again not in a meaningful way, with more people wanting to play open.
Like if you could just go about my day with out getting shot just because I'm "pledged" to someone I don't care about at all and I'm just stuck behind a time gate, that would be nice.
And this is why Powerplay needs a focus, otherwise its just living in the BGS' shadow. In my suggestion you'd have 3 ways to get a module:

1: Powerplay [Open] - cost is free if you have a high standing with that power
2: Powerplay [Solo PG] - cost is free if you have a high standing with that power

The above two can be achieved in hours and maintained easily, and does not lead to 'pledge and dump'.

3: Tech broker - cost is materials and credits.
 
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