Game Discussions Microsoft Flight Simulator

[Hairychest]

Had a very exciting/nerve wrecking experience last night, no bullets necessary really - wanted to practice VOR radio navigation (it's deeply satisfying to learn something new and 'real' like this, even though I will never really use it IRL as I won't ever get a pilot's licence), so set up a 30 minute flight into FRA in the Cessna 152.

Initially the live weather didn't load, with temperatures above 10 degress I decided to head off, and it was a rare full night flight, so I couldn't as easily cheat by flight VFR only.

But then the live weather did load, and I ended up flying through a cloud (which I didn't see as it was pitch black) and the entire canopy of course frosted up. Still managed to land at FRA though! Very satisfying and I want to practice VOR navigation more. It's just a pity you can't get the frequencies within the game once you started your flight... been using Skyscanner instead which is very useful though for this.

Well done! I took off from Toronto yesterday in the Robin and it frosted over and eventually crashed as there is no de-icing on it!

Also found out this week - VOR navigation is dying out as VORs are being retired in favour of GPS. US and Europe leading the way on retiring them. Should all be gone in a few years...

 

[Para Handy]

........ It's just a pity you can't get the frequencies within the game once you started your flight... been using Skyscanner instead which is very useful though for this.

I have not checked if it is modelled in the game but your Garmin (all a/c have a Garmin of one type or other I think?) should be able to be queried for l VOR / DME / Airport etc information* - I know some of the Garmin facilities are die to be expanded in updates.

* See sections 3 and 8 of the GNS430 guide for example.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I have not checked if it is modelled in the game but your Garmin (all a/c have a Garmin of one type or other I think?) should be able to be queried for l VOR / DME / Airport etc information* - I know some of the Garmin facilities are die to be expanded in updates.

* See sections 3 and 8 of the GNS430 guide for example.

The 152 is pretty bare bones, no fancy Garmin gear at all.

It's this video that inspired me to try this (popped up on my YT suggestions earlier this week), it explains it really well how it works. It took me a bit though to work out that not every airport/area has VOR stations available. It's all quite fascinating really, I always wondered what those gauges were for but never bothered to dive into it, until now.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I4zwyX-cNI


@Hairychest interesting to know, I guess that's progress right

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I also want to add, I continue to be amazed by the graphics and real-life feel of this sim (compared to FSX which was my go-to flight sim for a decade almost), the way the airport lights shone through the iced up windscreen - so realistic at times I forget I'm sitting at a desk and not in a plane, and I don't even use VR.

 

[Para Handy]

..........
Also found out this week - VOR navigation is dying out as VORs are being retired in favour of GPS. US and Europe leading the way on retiring them. Should all be gone in a few years...

Actually that is not exactly correct. In the USA for example there will remain a "minimum operational network" of VORs.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...chops/navservices/transition_programs/vormon/

I believe similar minimum number of VORs will be the case in other administrations - Eurocontrol etc (not checked progress of that).

 

[AkenBosch]

Also found out this week - VOR navigation is dying out as VORs are being retired in favour of GPS. US and Europe leading the way on retiring them. Should all be gone in a few years...

I'd better hurry with completing my roundtrip then!

(Such a crappy idea by the way. We are progressively holing up ourselves into absolute reliance on ever more complex and intrinsically weak technologies, ditching any possible "backup" along the way. As much as GPS is practical and vastly superior, if I were a pilot I'd like to have something more substantial than eyeballs and a gyro compass as a backup technology.)

Edit - @Para Handy, just read your reply on the VOR thing, glad they seem to be of the same mindset about it.

 

[Para Handy]

The 152 is pretty bare bones, no fancy Garmin gear at all.
.......

Ah - old-school ... I forgot that was the case in the 152.

 

[Para Handy]

I'd better hurry with completing my roundtrip then!

(Such a crappy idea by the way. We are progressively holing up ourselves into absolute reliance on ever more complex and intrinsically weak technologies, ditching any possible "backup" along the way. As much as GPS is practical and vastly superior, if I were a pilot I'd like to have something more substantial than eyeballs and a gyro compass as a backup technology.)

Edit - @Para Handy, just read your reply on the VOR thing, glad they seem to be of the same mindset about it.

Yeah the backup will always be there:

" The FAA's network of Distance Measuring Equipment (DME) NAVAIDs will provide a PBN-capable backup to GPS; however, for aircraft without scanning DME receivers (DD) or DD with Inertial Reference Unit aiding (DDI) equipment, the FAA will provide a conventional navigation backup service based on the VOR MON. The VOR MON is designed to enable aircraft, having lost GPS service, to revert to conventional navigation procedures. This would allow users to continue through the outage area using VOR station-to-station navigation or to proceed to a MON airport where an Instrument Landing System (ILS), Localizer (LOC) or VOR approach procedure can be flown without the necessity of GPS, DME, Automatic Direction Finder (ADF), or surveillance. Of course, any airport with a suitable instrument approach may be used for landing, but the VOR MON assures that at least one airport will be within 100 NM. "

MON = Minimal Operational Network

PBN = Performance Based Navigation (RNAV basically)

 

[Hairychest]

Thanks Para Handy. I thought it a little strange when it was mentioned in the MSFS forums and no-one challenged/corrected it!

For an industry famous for fail safes, seemed a bit weird to turn VOR off completely. GPS was a military system originally and in theory, could still be taken down by the US if felt necessary. That's one reason the Russians have a version of their own and the EU is doing similar. I am sure China probably has something, I can't see them using the Russian one.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I'd better hurry with completing my roundtrip then!

(Such a crappy idea by the way. We are progressively holing up ourselves into absolute reliance on ever more complex and intrinsically weak technologies, ditching any possible "backup" along the way. As much as GPS is practical and vastly superior, if I were a pilot I'd like to have something more substantial than eyeballs and a gyro compass as a backup technology.)

Edit - @Para Handy, just read your reply on the VOR thing, glad they seem to be of the same mindset about it.

I'm starting to understand now your plane of choice

 

[Revenant69]

My Virpil order has finished "processing" and is now in the hands of Fed Ex. I'm feverishly praying to the god of parcels and packages that it arrives safely

 

[Para Handy]

In case people were looking for the UK update (world update 3) which was supposed to be available on the 11th (presumably why their servers crashed out last night) it will now supposedly be released next Tuesday (16th Feb):

"World Update 3 is in its final polish phase and is now locked in for release on Tuesday, February 16th. The team is putting the finishing touches on all aspects of this massive update, and we appreciate your continued patience."

 

[Hairychest]

My Virpil order has finished "processing" and is now in the hands of Fed Ex. I'm feverishly praying to the god of parcels and packages that it arrives safely

Well, has it arrived yet?

 

[AvonNZ]

The seventh video in my series on checking out the insides of planes in VR with Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020.

This time the JMP VL-3, a tiny prop plane but with two seats.

Subscribe to see more videos in VR for Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 plus lots more !

Check it out at -

Source: https://youtu.be/T8yWWFHzTmM

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Got a question especially for those of you who might have a RL pilot's licence.

I set up a short flight which I wanted to complete in the 152 (so no 'official' GPS) via VOR navigation, but the VOR stations were in positions nowhere near either departure nor destination airports, or at best in directions that would make me go into the wrong direction (i.e. away from my actual destination).

Do you basically ignore VOR in such cases and fly old school VFR (if that makes sense, by that I mean printed map and orientation by landmarks etc.), or is there a trick I'm missing here? Really want to learn to master this for some reason I can't quite work out myself

 

[Juniper]

If you want to use your voice to control your aircraft (useful in VR especially), it's worth mentioning that the HCS Aviator has now been released in alpha.

You need the latest VoiceAttack to use it.

 

[Para Handy]

Got a question especially for those of you who might have a RL pilot's licence.

I set up a short flight which I wanted to complete in the 152 (so no 'official' GPS) via VOR navigation, but the VOR stations were in positions nowhere near either departure nor destination airports, or at best in directions that would make me go into the wrong direction (i.e. away from my actual destination).

Do you basically ignore VOR in such cases and fly old school VFR (if that makes sense, by that I mean printed map and orientation by landmarks etc.), or is there a trick I'm missing here? Really want to learn to master this for some reason I can't quite work out myself

Well, VFR means just that - pilot using visual references when the meteorological conditions permit flying in accordance with Visual Flying Rules. So in VFR flying the electronic instruments are sort of a back-up or provide additional cues.

You can fly IFR using DME/VOR that is not co-located with your destination - either by flying a "radial" (like along an airway) or by flying a course to intercept a radial from a VOR - but in any event to land at an airport with no ILS or DME/VOR equipment you need to use a visual approach.


P.S. I am not a RL licenced pilot.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Well, VFR means just that - pilot using visual references when the meteorological conditions permit flying in accordance with Visual Flying Rules. So in VFR flying the electronic instruments are sort of a back-up or provide additional cues.

You can fly IFR using DME/VOR that is not co-located with your destination - either by flying a "radial" (like along an airway) or by flying a course to intercept a radial from a VOR - but in any event to land at an airport with no ILS or DME/VOR equipment you need to use a visual approach.


P.S. I am not a RL licenced pilot.

Thanks, I guess that makes sense really.

Another question I asked myself in recent weeks is for RL pilots I suppose they will largely be grounded during winter months due to the weather conditions i.e. if they're flying planes that are not equipped with de-icing gear (the 152 for example has pitot heat but no canopy/windscreen de-icing unlike say the TBM930) and as such aren't legally allowed to take off - not sure if they can still lift off if the weather is cold but otherwise clear?

It's something that affects me quite often now as I usually fly with live weather, and in the northern hemisphere (at least where I want to fly) is largely wintery at the moment.

 

[Faded Glory]

Anybody here fly the Beechcraft King Air? If so, does the cockpit display support a wind reading option (as in PFD options that I can set in all the other glass cockpits I fly), and if so, how do I find it!

Also - and this is merely an observation, not a complaint - it has by far the worst cockpit interaction in VR of any of the planes I've flown, many switches / knobs very flaky when trying to select them, and some things such as scrolling the display impossible. Otherwise, actually a really nice plane to fly.

 

[Para Handy]

Thanks, I guess that makes sense really.

Another question I asked myself in recent weeks is for RL pilots I suppose they will largely be grounded during winter months due to the weather conditions i.e. if they're flying planes that are not equipped with de-icing gear (the 152 for example has pitot heat but no canopy/windscreen de-icing unlike say the TBM930) and as such aren't legally allowed to take off - not sure if they can still lift off if the weather is cold but otherwise clear?

It's something that affects me quite often now as I usually fly with live weather, and in the northern hemisphere (at least where I want to fly) is largely wintery at the moment.

The Pilot's Operation Handbook for the Cessna 152 and the 172 specifically states:

" Flight into known icing conditions is prohibited "