Mining SLF

[CMDR Serval-0000]

This idea has been suggested multiple times in the past, but since we are getting space feet soon, and mining has been reworked not too long ago, I supposed now would be good time to push that idea again. My friend has always found elite very immersive, but has never been into it as mush as I have, especialy because multicrew and other multiplayer elements are so hard to get into. With the release of space feet, I really hope we can see the implementation of a mining SLF soon, with an embarked pulse wave analyzer, abrasive blaster, prospector limpets and other, small duty equipment. That would make multicrew mining so so much more interesting than what we have right now.

The implementation of space feet, and with it the concept of not having a ship at all, means starting players who got into elite because of some veteran friends, which I believe is a lot of people, would truly be able to enjoy both space feet and ship gameplay at a new level, without having to grind all their way to the ships they want / need, which is also often a barrier to starting players / people thinking about buying the game. Up to now, multicrew has been a poor way to do so, but space feet, and the implementation of a new sphere of combat, as well as, hopefuly, more multicrew elements should clear all of those problems. I can even imagine a forum designed to let starting players and veteran players meet, to allow starting players to get a mentor, and a cool ship to learn the ropes in.

And please, don't answer wtih "SLFs are fighters, the name doesn't make sense."

 

[AzureAsaulter]

SLFs are fighters, the name doesn't make sense. You should name them Ship launched mining support vessels instead.

 

[Bottom Hat]

Some carrier owners have Ship Launched Miners. They were accused of kidnapping children.


Ps the name doesn't make sense either

 

[AzureAsaulter]

Some carrier owners have Ship Launched Miners. They were accused of kidnapping children.


Ps the name doesn't make sense either

Those are Carrier Onboard Miners

 

[Agony_Aunt]

This is one thing that befuddles me about FD. There are quite a few small easy wins they could gain, and as far as i can tell, don't require large effort or tricky technology, that would generate a lot of good will.

I mean, there are plenty of suggestions that people make where they say "FD should do X, its easy" when they are really talking about months or even years of effort for a decent sized team.

But mining SLFs.... i can't see how it would require any major effort. Hell, call it lazy (and i'm sure some people would) stick the mining laser on one of the existing SLF models.

 

[RamirezKurita]

But mining SLFs.... i can't see how it would require any major effort. Hell, call it lazy (and i'm sure some people would) stick the mining laser on one of the existing SLF models.

It'll take more effort than that, as they'll not only have to actually make the NPC AI at least somewhat competent at mining, but also they'll probably have to give our crew ranks other than combat as being a good combat pilot doesn't necessarily make them a good miner. Throw in the whole can of worms regarding asteroids currently having separate depletion values on a per-ship basis and you have something that'll take a fair amount of work in both design and coding.

 

[Trollymctrollerson]

It'll take more effort than that, as they'll not only have to actually make the NPC AI at least somewhat competent at mining, but also they'll probably have to give our crew ranks other than combat as being a good combat pilot doesn't necessarily make them a good miner. Throw in the whole can of worms regarding asteroids currently having separate depletion values on a per-ship basis and you have something that'll take a fair amount of work in both design and coding.

I see NPC ships mining in the res sites. Or at least they appear to be mining. Do their rocks deplete like player rocks do? And are you saying i could go mine the same rock as an NPC and have it appear depleted to me but they will keep on getting fragments?

 

[RamirezKurita]

I see NPC ships mining in the res sites. Or at least they appear to be mining. Do their rocks deplete like player rocks do? And are you saying i could go mine the same rock as an NPC and have it appear depleted to me but they will keep on getting fragments?

That's exactly how it works at the moment; they could go to an asteroid and mine it to depletion, then a player could go and prospect that same asteroid and it will still be at 0% depletion. Meanwhile, that same NPC could then head off to an asteroid that a player has just mined to depletion and then still extract another 10 fragments from it.

It's also why wing mining is so powerful, you can have 4 players prospecting for good asteroids and each good asteroid gives quadruple yield (as each player can mine it fully), an advantage which is compounded further by the extra 5% profit per wingmate.

And yes, NPCs technically do "mine" in RESs, but they are really not very good at it. It seems like they basically just find the nearest asteroid that they haven't depleted and start carving chunks out of it regardless of whether it's actually worthwhile or not. They'll happily spend several minutes just mining a 15% yield bauxite asteroid.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

It'll take more effort than that, as they'll not only have to actually make the NPC AI at least somewhat competent at mining, but also they'll probably have to give our crew ranks other than combat as being a good combat pilot doesn't necessarily make them a good miner. Throw in the whole can of worms regarding asteroids currently having separate depletion values on a per-ship basis and you have something that'll take a fair amount of work in both design and coding.

I don't think adding a command for our NPCs to shoot the targetted rock would require a major feat of coding. And i see no reason why they need other ranks. Just base their ability off their combat rank. Its basically just point and a rock and shoot.

Depletion can be tied to the mothership's allocation, i see no major issue there.

But again, if it is an issue, make a multicrew only option. Don't let NPCs do it. Or let NPCs sit in the mothership. You just switch back to launch collectors/prospectors.

Again, some people will write long forum posts about why FD are lazy and not doing something properly, while everyone who wants to enjoy multicrew mining with SLFs will be enjoying it.

 

[metatheurgist]

If my SLF would just scoop mats....

 

[Trollymctrollerson]

Id take an SLF that just works like a super limpet. Have that drone go out and collect 10 fragments in 1 go and bring back the bundle. Tractor beams really are what we need but if we must have suicidal moron limpets, an SLF super limpet would be handy. As long as it doesn't spontaneously explode or crash into the asteroids like regular limpets.

 

[RamirezKurita]

I don't think adding a command for our NPCs to shoot the targetted rock would require a major feat of coding. And i see no reason why they need other ranks. Just base their ability off their combat rank. Its basically just point and a rock and shoot.

Depletion can be tied to the mothership's allocation, i see no major issue there.

But again, if it is an issue, make a multicrew only option. Don't let NPCs do it. Or let NPCs sit in the mothership. You just switch back to launch collectors/prospectors.

Again, some people will write long forum posts about why FD are lazy and not doing something properly, while everyone who wants to enjoy multicrew mining with SLFs will be enjoying it.

There's far more to mining than simply shooting rocks, as prospecting is arguably just as important as well as being the aspect that a fighter is likely to be very good at compared to the mothership. If they simply shoot whatever rock the mothership is after, then they are missing out on the majority of their capabilities. In fact, I'd rather have a prospector fighter than a laser fighter, although there's no reason why they shouldn't be both (fighters could "prospect" by blowing off a single fragment from each asteroid if they don't have prospector limpets).

To make matters worse, FD generally seem loathe to revisit and expand upon previous mechanics, so this'll likely be the end of crew-based mining mechanics - a massive loss of potential. Considering FD's "no looking back" development style, it's absolutely imperative that they make the mechanics as fleshed out as possible.

Tying depletion to the mothership would be in stark contrast to how mining works in every other aspect though. Now, if they were to rework depletion to be global regardless of relationship between the ships it could work, but I'd also expect the folk that like to abuse this in wing mining would complain to the ends of the world. Consistency is important in games as it makes things predictable and reduces the mental load on players, while having completely different sets of rules for otherwise similar things just frustrates new players. Making it based on the mothership while wings still enjoy it being per-ship would just be a giant middle finger to solo players for no good reason.

Plus, if the mining SLF behaviour was to just follow the mothership around and help knock a chunk or two off each asteroid, then it's quite likely that nobody would use them as most mining motherships can deplete asteroids pretty quickly and the hangar bay would be cutting into valuable limpet space (particularly as limpet collection rate is just as much of a restriction as lasering rate).

Restricting it to multicrew would also just be a giant middle finger to solo players, further widening the performance gap between those with a large friends list and those without. Multicrew is already positively overdeveloped compared to its user base relative to NPC crew; NPC crew has a both a much larger user base yet has much less functionality. This is part of why I believe the two sets of mechanics should be merged into the same one, with consistent rules and bonuses being applied regardless of whether the crew are players or NPCs, which would then give them the benefit of shared development rather than having two parallel mechanics both trying to achieve the same thing.

 

[ohforf3]

I do like the idea of a mining/cargo ship launched shuttle but without the NPC auto pilot. When you get into the large ships it becomes a pain getting in position for subsurface and abrasion mining after blowing a core so I would like to be able to hop into a maneuverable small ship to get into the tight spaces.

Restrict to large ships and give it cargo space so cargo could be transferred and sold to outposts.

 

[Florenus]

SLFs are so small that they don't have any cargo capacity, so there would be no prospecting limpets, or fragment gathering. Basically they could only operate as independently moving mining laser, which would be just... worthless.

 

[Mr T]

Id take an SLF that just works like a super limpet. Have that drone go out and collect 10 fragments in 1 go and bring back the bundle. Tractor beams really are what we need but if we must have suicidal moron limpets, an SLF super limpet would be handy. As long as it doesn't spontaneously explode or crash into the asteroids like regular limpets.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I hope they're smarter than the dumb limpets we have. The explosions would be pretty though

 

[Tikanderoga]

What I'd love would be an SLF that can go and prospect.
That would be the ultimate mining companion for core mining. You PWA the field and the SLF zips to prospect promissing asteroids. If they are any good, you go and crack them. If not, moving on.

 

[ohforf3]

SLFs are so small that they don't have any cargo capacity, so there would be no prospecting limpets, or fragment gathering. Basically they could only operate as independently moving mining laser, which would be just... worthless.

Unless they were made capable of seeing the results of prospector limpets from ship that launched it.

As to fragment gathering you must have never done wing mining. You can gather fragments spawned by other ship's mining tools so the same applies to a mining shuttle.

Part of the reason I would like to see a mining deploy-able craft is for getting into tight spaces with a large ship. Getting into position to abrasion blast or use an SSDM can be a pain when your in a large mining ship like a T9. Having a small maneuverable craft with those tools that you can switch over to would be nice.

 

[Florenus]

Unless they were made capable of seeing the results of prospector limpets from ship that launched it.

As to fragment gathering you must have never done wing mining. You can gather fragments spawned by other ship's mining tools so the same applies to a mining shuttle.

Part of the reason I would like to see a mining deploy-able craft is for getting into tight spaces with a large ship. Getting into position to abrasion blast or use an SSDM can be a pain when your in a large mining ship like a T9. Having a small maneuverable craft with those tools that you can switch over to would be nice.

My point was that SLF would not be able to gather fragments. But sure, as more manouverable mining weapon platform it could have some uses.
Problem is - you would need to sacrifice cargo space to fit slf hangar. I'm not sure if it would be worth it. I've never had problems core mining in T10.

 

[RamirezKurita]

My point was that SLF would not be able to gather fragments. But sure, as more manouverable mining weapon platform it could have some uses.
Problem is - you would need to sacrifice cargo space to fit slf hangar. I'm not sure if it would be worth it. I've never had problems core mining in T10.

However, the beauty of using a fighter to do core mining goes beyond just convenience, as it is also a second ship to help with your core mining. You could be off doing your own laser mining while your fighter is checking asteroids in the area for core deposits and detonating them (and ideally notifying you if they get a core deposit so you can bring the mothership over to harvest the remains).

 

[Tividar]

Two variant Mining-focused fighters: each packs an Abrasion Blaster as the Primary weapon. For the utility slot, one carries a Sub-Surface Displacement Missile while the other carries a Seismic Charge Launcher. No special AI. Either you fly it yourself or you multi-crew.

Park your ship far enough from the 'roid to avoid collision and cut power to the thrusters if you're worried about drifting.
Launch Limpets and open the Cargo Hatch.
Launch the Fighter and get to work with SSDs and SCLs.
Once all the SCs are placed, revert back to the Carrier and recall the fighter.

Bonus points if the Autopilot could Mining Lance the asteroid while you're in the SLF[M]. The lower fragmentation rate on the Mining Lance wouldn't matter as much given the bottleneck will be the limpet gathering rate, and the extra range would be useful in staying far enough away from the core detonation.

Near as I can tell, this would require little or no additional special programming, just two new fighter models with some existing weapons.

I'd happily crowd fund this.

Mining "fighter"

I'd love to see a fighter ( I call it a fighter because it gets launched from a fighter bay) with mining equipment. Deep core mining requires a ship that's agile enough to shift and circle around a rock and punch resource-clusters off it or place seismic charges. Ships with huge cargo potential...

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