Money (CR TRANSFER)

[Xender]

This is funny how peoples are scared about Gold Sellers in Elite. Do you really think that peoples will bother to sell and buy credits for this game? There are so many exploits and way to get this money very fast, also there is no competitive gameplay, so why you care?
It will be nice to share some gold with my friend. It is quite core mechanic in online gaming. Frontier could introduce some taxes to make it more interesting. Also the lack of player market where players could sell engineered modules and crafting materials is really bad for overall experience. I think many players who accepts those lacks, behave like Frontier worshippers: "Frontier said there wont be support for credit transfer and players market because of gold sellers" and so many peoples signs under it even without considering how this will work, or how to counter measure gold selling.

This is really bad when you taking something on faith to someone than your own logic and expertise.

 

[samuelb]

This is funny how peoples are scared about Gold Sellers in Elite. Do you really think that peoples will bother to sell and buy credits for this game? There are so many exploits and way to get this money very fast, also there is no competitive gameplay, so why you care?
It will be nice to share some gold with my friend. It is quite core mechanic in online gaming. Frontier could introduce some taxes to make it more interesting. Also the lack of player market where players could sell engineered modules and crafting materials is really bad for overall experience. I think many players who accepts those lacks, behave like Frontier worshippers: "Frontier said there wont be support for credit transfer and players market because of gold sellers" and so many peoples signs under it even without considering how this will work, or how to counter measure gold selling.

This is really bad when you taking something on faith to someone than your own logic and expertise.

OK, I see your point but I can gaurantee it would be abused, how do I know? Because people are involved.

If you want to give some creds to your buddy, drop him some cargo to scoop and sell - be imaginative.

As soon as you create a player market, you remove the need for people to Engineer for themselves, another bad move IMHO.

This game is not for everyone, not by a long chalk, so..... (not going to say it because I don't want to be accused of x, y, z).

Fly safe CMDR o7

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Well, with multicrew and adding extra bounty vouchers and added wing profit bonuses people can just tag along and get X money after Y hours without really DOING anything.

 

[Xender]

OK, I see your point but I can gaurantee it would be abused, how do I know? Because people are involved.

If you want to give some creds to your buddy, drop him some cargo to scoop and sell - be imaginative.

As soon as you create a player market, you remove the need for people to Engineer for themselves, another bad move IMHO.

This game is not for everyone, not by a long chalk, so..... (not going to say it because I don't want to be accused of x, y, z).

Fly safe CMDR o7

Nope, nope, nope. Why you forcing someone to acquire engineered modules via engineers not player market? They need enough money to buy it and still, someone need first to craft this module. This will introduce totally new carrier path of producer/crafter which can produce and sell their works.

What about abusing credits transfer, this wont be a problem for Elite, it is to simple game to "imbalance" something.

 

[samuelb]

Nope, nope, nope. Why you forcing someone to acquire engineered modules via engineers not player market? They need enough money to buy it and still, someone need first to craft this module. This will introduce totally new carrier path of producer/crafter which can produce and sell their works.

What about abusing credits transfer, this wont be a problem for Elite, it is to simple game to "imbalance" something.

I am sorry, I am not being obtuse or rude, I am struggling to understand your argument. If you could reword it perhaps or give me an example?

Again apologies, I am perhaps just being dumb today.

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Well, with multicrew and adding extra bounty vouchers and added wing profit bonuses people can just tag along and get X money after Y hours without really DOING anything.

You may well be right, I just hope that you are not (with respect!)

Fly safe CMDR o7

 

[StiTch]

If I am in a CG and start hearing "Plox go to EDCREDITS(dot)C - 0 - M for ch3ap cr3dits" on local chat, I am personally holding you responsible.

 

[Shar]

The problem if not already explained is gold farming for cash, and yes it will happen. then the developer will have to take the game into a pay-to-win model so they get the money instead of the gold farmers many developers have had problems with this and they all end up pay-to-win...........Slipery Slope.

Anyone nieve enough to think this is not the real reason for not doing this needs to educate themselves on the subject every mmo every single one with this vulnerablility has had problems and almost without exception end up pay-to-win and no there is no known counter-measure.

 

[Xender]

The problem if not already explained is gold farming for cash, and yes it will happen. then the developer will have to take the game into a pay-to-win model so they get the money instead of the gold farmers many developers have had problems with this and they all end up pay-to-win...........Slipery Slope.

It is hard to talk about pay2win in game where is no "win" condition. Even if you can buy gold and gain advantage, how will you use it? Only place in Elite which is truly competitive is CQC which is not influenced by credits. Really gold sellers wont be a problem in Elite. You are scared of that to much. Elite is not a EVE or WOW. I have really, really basic and simple mechanics. It is mostly single player games with simple "online" additions. However player to player credits and modules flow will be really interesting. Anyone tried EVE before Elite? It really good designed game, expect poor ship control and almost "turn based" gameplay .

I am sorry, I am not being obtuse or rude, I am struggling to understand your argument. If you could reword it perhaps or give me an example?

Again apologies, I am perhaps just being dumb today.

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You may well be right, I just hope that you are not (with respect!)

Fly safe CMDR o7

Ok sorry if I sound offensive ;P. Many players complains that they doesn't like engineers, just think how great it will be for them to but crafted modules rather than craft it on themselves. Engineers mechanics are not the best in the game industry and I understand not everyone like it, so players market will cover needs of those who don't like engineering process but wants engineered modules. It will also create new carrier path

 

[Shar]

It is hard to talk about pay2win in game where is no "win" condition. Even if you can buy gold and gain advantage, how will you use it? Only place in Elite which is truly competitive is CQC which is not influenced by credits. Really gold sellers wont be a problem in Elite. You are scared of that to much. Elite is not a EVE or WOW. I have really, really basic and simple mechanics. It is mostly single player games with simple "online" additions. However player to player credits and modules flow will be really interesting. Anyone tried EVE before Elite? It really good designed game, expect poor ship control and almost "turn based" gameplay .



Ok sorry if I sound offensive ;P. Many players complains that they doesn't like engineers, just think how great it will be for them to but crafted modules rather than craft it on themselves. Engineers mechanics are not the best in the game industry and I understand not everyone like it, so players market will cover needs of those who don't like engineering process but wants engineered modules. It will also create new carrier path

Look win is a relitive term i'm talking about a new player flying an A rated Anaconda he bought 10min after starting the game with the 200mil he just bought from a gold farmer for 20 dollars. Once this starts happening fdev might as well start selling Anacondas for 20 dollars in the store and they will. ie...pay-to-win. Fdev have been smart about it and managed to avoid this trap thankfully, but hey maybe you want it to be PTW maybe you want to gold farm or maybe you just want to give a friend a hand either way this idea is a Pandora's Box.
Yes I played Eve first day bought 2 Billion cr got bored a week later and never went back. I'll take ED over EVE any day.

 

[Rakaposhi]

Well i guess the point is well made against credit transfer, i guess i figured that most people playing ED were an honest bunch just out to have fun playing, i should know better lol.

You're quite right, players (of all games) are almost entirely an honest bunch. We aren't worried about them, it's the criminal businessmen who can see profit in hacking accounts and selling the contents. If the game prevents the mechanism for making real world money, then the game never gets affected by the account hacking and gold seller spam.

If you *really* *really* want to boost a friend, nip out to Darnielle's Progress, and load up with Meta Alloys. Then fly back to your mate and eject them for scooping and selling. Be sure to abandon them, so they can sell them easily. 200 tons will set them up in a half decent AspX.

They'll also be good at scooping, docking, and might even have learned to outfit a ship and use collector limpets into the bargain!

 

[n4p0l3on]

Yep, as has been said, player-to-player credit transfer means gold (credit) sellers.

Of course.. IF these transfers could ONLY be made Outside of the No-Fire zone... Oh the fun I'd have blowing them up until they ragequit.

.

Even better, make the credits transfer zone in the 1 billion LS away AFTER the Hutton Orbital

 

[DocPossible]

One of the reasons I like ED is that it's not just a cookie cutter MMO in space, with some cosmetic variant of the tank / healer / ranged DPS mechanic. I know people that play that are experienced MMOers and have blasted their way through to owning a conda in just a few weeks. To me, they're missing the point of the game, but they seem happy enough for now. I don't imagine they'll be playing in a year, but FDev have their money so it's all good.

Credit transfer will inevitably lead to the game becoming more generic, less interesting, with more and more shortcuts. Most MMOs have huge XP multipliers available so you can speed your way through to the level cap with a new character in a few hours. I've always felt that's a pretty tragic indictment of such games - so compelling you want to skip most of it.

There is no level cap in ED. It's not quite the sandbox universe some of us had hoped it would be, at least not yet, but I can't think of any MMOs that really provide such a rewarding experience outside of PvP that ED does. Once you reduce the game to min maxing your ship, which is all credit transfers can achieve, the game loses it's soul and it's point.

 

[StiTch]

I know people that play that are experienced MMOers and have blasted their way through to owning a conda in just a few weeks. To me, they're missing the point of the game, but they seem happy enough for now. I don't imagine they'll be playing in a year, but FDev have their money so it's all good.

Ask them to stop weighing in on AI (or any) balancing discussions and I'll 100% support this statement.

 

[Winterwalker]

I agree, credit transfers would be a bad step but taking it in a different direction (not only because gold farming) but because in game credits are untraceable, how about 'tagged cargo' transfers?

So my immediate scenario is, I'm a miner and yes I have Painite .. so if you need Painite for a mission you either need to go mine it yourself (you slags) or .. hand me the equivalent (plus my profit) in gold cannisters (not really viable, you need many more tons of gold when I can get 75k/ton Painite) ... so how about if I transferred (tagged) Painite to you? Could I be paid for your completed mission too, because I helped you to fulfil it? I get 'paid' then, for providing a service to another player (not directly by the player but via Bank of Zaonce).

Easy to (rightly) dismiss cash credit transfer but doesn't mean some ability to transfer wealth is a bad thing because it could promote more co-op play. Tagged/untagged cannisters might be player choice to open up possibles in smuggling and Wing payments go some way towards this (might not be a minor thing for FD to extend that, I think at the moment you need to be in the same star system to share trade/mission credits in a wing? If not, maybe more advertising of the wing feature for sharing wealth could be a good idea?) but if it adds pressure to encourage co-ops, extension of existing profit sharing mechanics, is definitely worth looking at imo.

 

[smiths121]

Not read page 2-4, so this might have been mentioned.

The reason we have the current bounty system and not the original c&p system in part is to do with people selling their bounty, in the 100s of millions for real cash back when 100mcr was a big deal.

People. will do it.

Simon

 

[TheAntitheist Crusader]

You're quite right, players (of all games) are almost entirely an honest bunch. We aren't worried about them, it's the criminal businessmen who can see profit in hacking accounts and selling the contents. If the game prevents the mechanism for making real world money, then the game never gets affected by the account hacking and gold seller spam.

If you *really* *really* want to boost a friend, nip out to Darnielle's Progress, and load up with Meta Alloys. Then fly back to your mate and eject them for scooping and selling. Be sure to abandon them, so they can sell them easily. 200 tons will set them up in a half decent AspX.

They'll also be good at scooping, docking, and might even have learned to outfit a ship and use collector limpets into the bargain!

I'll just leave him, i guess he doesn't really like ED that much anyway, i just figured i could entice him with instant CR but you guys are right, terrible idea, very naive i was in that first couple of posts.

 

[shadragon]

That would be nice, i have a friend who might actually play more if i could give him a few million.

If they are not willing to work for their position, they won't be willing to maintain it.

Experience is the most viable currency in-game.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

At the same time, this is not a pure MMO.

- There is no economy to influence
- At most some players spend real cash to gain fake money and buy an internet spaceship early on
- There is nothing to truly "win" except save time

At most I could argue that the following COULD happen
- Accounts hacked and it's contents sold ( a problem for FD support)
- Possible money laundering scheme could be used for this as money could trade hands several times and become "clean"
- People whine to FD support that they got scammed when trying to buy fake money with real money

 

[Plopsi]

would be nice,

goldseller would be a problem but they could restrict transfer between players which are befriended for at least 3 months i.e. Sometimes it would be very helpful to send some money to a friend...

 

[Maverick and Goose]

As soon as you create a player market, you remove the need for people to Engineer for themselves, another bad move IMHO.

It would be a shame not to see all those "material grind" "engineer unlock grind" posts every goddamn day, wouldn't it?

And the hell with adding another potential scavenger/crafter career to the game.

I am ALL FOR a P2P economy for selling engineered equipment, cargo, and mats.

Gifting credits is a problem? Like Draconis exploit? Or ceos? Or robigo?? Please. You can already print money in this game. And like others have said, it is probably too niche to warrant gold farmers, who have no "server chat" platform to spam anyways. They want to do it in open at a busy site?! Let the PvP groups look after em!