That's the one test I didn't do. I've fired off all in quick succession (two medium bays) and with a stager where I waited for the first to hit before launching the next. The results were the same. Could be diff one at a time, I suppose. Being as four take two bays and they do no damage to hull when shields are down, I don't see the point in using them at all anymore. I have placed them in storage for a future update.
Murder hobos vs CG piracy
- Thread starter urth
- Start date
That's the one test I didn't do. I've fired off all in quick succession (two medium bays) and with a stager where I waited for the first to hit before launching the next. The results were the same. Could be diff one at a time, I suppose. Being as four take two bays and they do no damage to hull when shields are down, I don't see the point in using them at all anymore. I have placed them in storage for a future update.
Hello Commander urth!
If you are not destroying ships, it's our intention that the karma system should not really affect you. Most likely we will want to track damage as well, but in general, if you're reasonably effective at taking out drives and using limpets, only the normal crime rules should trigger (you'll be subject to a bounty).
When it comes to "griefing", ship destruction, catastrophic damage and significant disparity between ship strength and player stats are the kinds of things that karma is interested in.
If we end up punishing the behaviour you describe when you pirate, we will be doing it wrong.
If you are not destroying ships, it's our intention that the karma system should not really affect you. Most likely we will want to track damage as well, but in general, if you're reasonably effective at taking out drives and using limpets, only the normal crime rules should trigger (you'll be subject to a bounty).
When it comes to "griefing", ship destruction, catastrophic damage and significant disparity between ship strength and player stats are the kinds of things that karma is interested in.
If we end up punishing the behaviour you describe when you pirate, we will be doing it wrong.
It all sounds a bit fuzzy. What do you mean by punish? Something within the game rules but involving pilots Federation bounties that work differently from regular bounties, or some method outside the rules of the game?
It would be quite good to get a thread about how you guys are actually planning to implement this.
Y'know all this would probably be made much easier with a Declaration Of Piracy mechanic. It just seems to me - as a coder - that such a mechanic would allow the game client to figure out the context of an interdiction and subsequent attack much better and far easier than the somewhat convoluted programming summersaults that'll have to be done for this karma system.
But what do I know. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Agreed!
Can you tell us if you are also looking at rewarding criminal behavior ?
Also, what do you think about tips during loading screen or at stations like :
- Don't forget to run a shield! It is a cutthroat galaxy
- It is not because you don't want to shoot others that others won't shoot at you
Hello Commanders!
Hopefully we'll be going in to more depth with karma discussions in the future.
Hello Commander Ozram!
Initially, we want to use karma to apply appropriate, in-game consequences for contentious player-to-player interactions, such as ramming, seal clubbing and combat logging. The kinds of things we're talking about here might include: docking rights being revoked at high security systems, increased re-buy costs, additional, highly engineered bounty hunters.
It's important to note that a karma system is not a panacea, nor will it be instant - it's a way of building up intelligence over time to come to a reasoned decision on player intent.
Hello Commander Genar-Hofoen!
Well, we're going to need the somersaulting karma system for a number of activities, so adding in "griefing" seems like a reasonable cost/reward if we can get the numbers in a decent position.
However, the idea of a declaration of piracy is no less legitimate, as we think it's a cool concept in its own right (plus, it would very likely be possible to feed it into an active karma system anyway)! But to do this well, I think we're going to need NPC comms.
Hopefully we'll be going in to more depth with karma discussions in the future.
Hello Commander Ozram!
Initially, we want to use karma to apply appropriate, in-game consequences for contentious player-to-player interactions, such as ramming, seal clubbing and combat logging. The kinds of things we're talking about here might include: docking rights being revoked at high security systems, increased re-buy costs, additional, highly engineered bounty hunters.
It's important to note that a karma system is not a panacea, nor will it be instant - it's a way of building up intelligence over time to come to a reasoned decision on player intent.
Hello Commander Genar-Hofoen!
Well, we're going to need the somersaulting karma system for a number of activities, so adding in "griefing" seems like a reasonable cost/reward if we can get the numbers in a decent position.
However, the idea of a declaration of piracy is no less legitimate, as we think it's a cool concept in its own right (plus, it would very likely be possible to feed it into an active karma system anyway)! But to do this well, I think we're going to need NPC comms.
I think you are right that a piracy flag you be the quick way of sorting things out, as far as piracy is concerned but :
1) it would only deals with piracy related behaviours
2) in the long run, having a sub-system to deal with each case (piracy / CLogging / and so on ) is usually more complicated / costlier than a more hollistic aproach (karma).
3) multiple sub-systems means more points of potential failures => exploits and other shenanigans
4) karma system have a good track record, and account for all actions, not just what happens in a small subset. Probably harder to "game" too.
Still. A piracy flag and ability to have pre-recorded demands for the target sent during interdiction and after winning it would help.
As would Tools supporting piracy in general.
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Some decent answers there Sandro
I hope your crack team of god-like coders will enjoy their mental (and coding) somersaults - it hurts my brain even thinking about thinking of where to start with such a karma system
NPC communication would be good, even if it just allows us a basic: Yes, No, buggar-off ability.
Have you considered the possibility of revoking insurance competely for the "worst of the worst" when it comes to player killers. Players who kill other players repeatedly when they still have "report crimes" activated?
If I were to use modern motoring insurance as an example. If I were to committ a crime using my car, my insurance company would be well within the contract to laugh me out of the building should I apply for a pay out.
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Agreed on all points Muetdhiver
My probably somewhat simplistic thinking is that it would make it easier for the game code to make a distinction between 'legit piracy' and 'murder hobo' behaviour - I've addressed the reasoning behind this in threads from the dark and distant past, but the tl;dr is basically that not only would it enable and enhance 'legit piracy' but that any murder hobo seeking to use such a mechanic in order to hide behind 'legit piracy' in their pursuit of rabid skullduggery would be more easily exposed.
However, it appears Sandro and Co. are already considering the possibilities involved in a karma system. In the meantime I'll sit on my nice deckchair on the Patience Ferry and read a book or something until these new systems are introduced.
That sounds really good, and makes sense within the game world.
Hello Sandro,
since we're talking about highly engineered bounty hunter, don't forget that some players are actively playing this role and would widely welcome more appropriate tools to track Pilot Federation criminals. The "top 5 bounties" appearing in the news feed is good, but we have no way to know if the guy we're looking for is simply offline or if we're just unlucky with instancing when going to his "last reported in" system.
Hi Sandro,
I'm glad you are thinking about making a distinction between killers and pirates as far as C&P goes, but there is a problem with your assessment of the feasibility of piracy there; destroying drives does not stop a ship dead and it is very difficult to empty cargo out of a ship that is drifting 200-300m/s and effectively collect it.
Here are some points raised by Jukelo in another thread;
It would be better if pirates had some way to stop a disabled ship so cargo can be stolen without loads of canisters being wasted due to the aforementioned issues, a tether limpet or tractor beam perhaps?
This is good news
I don't remember hearing 'shield generator attack' during our encounter... you might have been too close, they need a minimum distance to activate otherwise they don't work.
Module reinforcement package absorb a part of the damage caused by reverberating cascade effect. I've tested it with a friend and his Corvette: he had a class 1 or 2 MRP, launched 4 torps and his shield gen was down to 7%.
NPC comms confirmed!
Sandro
Thanks for sharing your thoughts somewhat.
There is a real opportunity here for FDev to implement a real Bounty Hunter reward system that significantly pays dividends to CMDRs who go after PvP gankers & griefers in Open play. Stick huge bounties on them and watch the game evolve 10 fold.
Good luck CMIV
Thanks for sharing your thoughts somewhat.
There is a real opportunity here for FDev to implement a real Bounty Hunter reward system that significantly pays dividends to CMDRs who go after PvP gankers & griefers in Open play. Stick huge bounties on them and watch the game evolve 10 fold.
Good luck CMIV