The problem is that go to any MMO that allows open world PvP, which MMO can you tell me that you don't see high level people camping at the noob starting zone to kill people for the fun of it?
It's hardly griefing.
My first grief er experience
- Thread starter Oni14128
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The problem is that go to any MMO that allows open world PvP, which MMO can you tell me that you don't see high level people camping at the noob starting zone to kill people for the fun of it?
It's hardly griefing.
This is a very poor argument, sometimes referred to as "one million chinamen".
It's a good argument. You cannot have 'free for all' pvp without these things occurring. Else it isn't free for all PVP, it's negotiated or zoned PVP.
With respect, it is a poor argument. It is an appeal to commonality. If you are happy with that, then happy trails to you.
I'm not bothered either way, in terms of griefing, but I find that sort of gambit slightly irritating.
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Frankly, while I agree with your first statement I have to take issue with your second. "Griefing" as opposed to "cheating" makes use of the game mechanics. The biggest justification a "griefer" uses is "because I can and the game doesn't stop me" - in fact that is, IMHO, the biggest single reason "honest PvPers" such as yourself get unjustly lumped in with them in ED. They see you quite correctly pointing out that PvP piracy is a part of the game and very much allowed within it and they "hear" the griefers argument. The vast majority of PvP servers in games where PvP IS the focus will boot you from the server for spawn-camping, and DO consider it "griefing", or at least exceedingly lame. I would indeed call those high level players spawn-camping and noob-PKing for the lulz griefers. They certainly aren't folks I want to share my game-time with even when I am in the mood for PvP
TOS: No naming and shaming, no witch hunts.
Indeed. And in fact it is very very simple as well (unlike the picture on the previous page suggests).
Scenario: Player A kills player B
Question: Was player A's motivation solely to spoil the fun of player B?
Yes -> griefing
No -> not griefing
The arbitrary reinterpretation of the term along the lines of "it's not griefing unless done over and over" doesn't make any sense. Etymologically it seems rather obvious that "griefing" would mean "someone causing grief" and that's it. There is really nothing in the word that would connect it to repetition in any way. The amount of grief can be small or big. Similarly to saying "I'm hurt". That could mean I cut myself in the finger, or it could mean someone punched me once, or someone punched me ten times, or i had a car accident.
That guide isn't comprehensive at all. It makes no allowances for a brand new player in a Sidey.
What determines whether it's griefing or not is the player's intent. Did he gain anything? No. Did he stand a chance of losing? No. Was he trying to make the new player's experience better? Hardly fun getting swatted by a player that you don't stand a chance against, in a much more powerful ship.
His sole reason for doing it was to make the other person's experience less enjoyable. ie cause him grief... aka griefing.
Semantic nonsense... This player was out to kill an obviously pointless/easy target simply because of the fact that they're a human player.
This is sociopathic behavior and nothing else. He wants to, with no risk to himself, cause the other player "pain" (annoyance, frustration, whatever; it's irrelevant how it manifests itself in the victim) and gets a rise out of it when successful. That's the absolute definition of griefing, bullying, or whatever you want to call it while pointlessly arguing over semantics.
The aggressor most likely does not arbitrarily target weak NPC ships since they are a pointless effort with no emotional reward. Again, sociopathic behavior, end of story.
His cowardly running from a vaguely threatening opponent nailed the case completely.
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Correct. But unless it's specifically stated there's no way for you to know it. You can only guess.
Unless you happen to know the motivation it does. Because it factors in the possibility that he has a perfectly fine motivation.
That is straining the definition because technically perfectly fine gameplay can cause grief although it's not even remotely griefing.
It does because it allows better judgment when making assumptions. And you mostly always will make assumptions. It's the same with combat logging. It actually can happen. But if your network suspiciously always and exclusively fails when you're about to lose then it's rather safe to assume you're combat logging and not experiencing network issues.
Right. But if someone cuts your finger with a knife it could be carelessness. If he cuts you 3 times it certainly isn't.
Wow! You just took a lot of effort to defend an obvious a-hat. I have to wonder why anyone would go to such lengths to defend such behavior...
It wasn't an accident, it was completely intentional, with the desired result.
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Its not greifing , its just being rude.
I'm not defending him. But I don't know his motivation. All I'm saying is that not everything that you can't sort in is necessarily griefing. The game - or his capabilities - offer quite a bit of room for options that have nothing to do with griefing.
As J Lee correctly stated. Griefing is an intention to ruin gameplay. It's not the same as ruining your day.
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But its not greifing , he can just go play solo if he does not like
Categorically, no.
By simple definition, the action of attacking a potential opponent (using that term very loosely) who has absolutely no chance of escape or defense, is griefing, end of story.
Motivation and obvious outcome are everything with respect to griefing. If he pulled over another clean Vulture and "won", that would be psychopathic murder, but not griefing.
Do you understand now?
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The player in the vulture that went after the new player in the sidewinder is a bully. Bullies are cowards. This guy ran from another vulture. He is a bully. He will get his, they all do.
And when they do, they rage quit and run upstairs and toss dinner off the table, curse their mother because they don't want meatloaf for dinner, never liked meatloaf, ever, and why can't she get anything right?