My issue with the sudden increase in cheaters/hackers...

[Bigmaec]

This especially. While I didn't bother to take the trip to Beagle point (a decal isn't enough to entice me), the fact that some cheaters could be doing this is disgusting. Granted the FSD Booster did make it possible for even a good chunk of Combat ships to have a nice trip for once (and make for some godly screenshots/wallpaper material with unconventional ships in unconventional locations), I wouldn't be surprised if some cheaters went the route of just insta jumping to Beagle point or other major waypoints just to have some slaughter fun.

If a PvP / ganker made the journey legit, then kudos to them and I wish them a bloody good slaughter fest. If a dirty cheater however is there doing it, that is just despicable as they couldn't even bother to chase their prey properly and wanted an easy mode way to gank with a massively unfair advantage.

Most of the gankers "only" went to Explorer's Anchorage, most in special ganking Kraits or Anacondas with jumpranges close to or above 50 LY.
And most of them know how to neutron boost, so it's not a big feat to go there. And those I have in my friendlist mostly travelled that far legit. *

I'd go as far and say the legit PvPers have the biggest interest in getting this stomped on hard, and most gankers who did DG2 are of that kind.

Hate what they do, but don't question their sincere interest in this game.

(*"mostly" because I didn't monitor their moves - this could be misinterpreted in me noticing cheats, it's not meant this way )

 

[space voyager]

Most of the gankers "only" went to Explorer's Anchorage, most in special ganking Kraits or Anacondas with jumpranges close to or above 50 LY.
And most of them know how to neutron boost, so it's not a big feat to go there. And those I have in my friendlist mostly travelled that far legit.

I'd go as far and say the legit PvPers have the biggest interest in getting this stomped on hard, and most gankers who did DG2 are of that kind.

Hate what they do, but don't question their sincere interest in this game.

We're not questioning the motives or interest, just the use of cheats. If there were cheats used, FD should stomp it. If not, kudos to gankers willing to invest months of play just to spoil someone else's fun. I guess. I used a spare SRV to let them have some fun at Beagle.

 

[dxm55]

Why would it upset me? Let me reverse this on you with a slightly different position:

If you abide by a local ordinance that states you must mow your lawn counter-clockwise, but others on your street do not, and mow their lawns clockwise, does this upset you? Or do you take comfort in knowing you are doing right, while everyone else does wrong?

I'm not phased by the notion that others might not pay their taxes. Should they ever be audited, that's their problem, not mine. I did what was expected of me.

Poor analogy there.

This is a game, an event of sorts, or even a competition, as you might call it.

Think of it like a football match, or a marathon.
If the other team had a 2 player advantage over your football team, would you cry foul, or just take the unfair ass-whooping lying down? Similarly, if 10 marathoners out of 1000 took a short cut thru the bushes and cut their distance by 5 miles, and won the race, would you make an issue out of it? Or taking it lying down?

Or let me take it another notch. China is selling you their stuff, and you let their stuff into your country tax free.... but when you try to sell your stuff to them, they put a tariff on it. Would you take it lying down?

Nuff said

 

[Bigmaec]

We're not questioning the motives or interest, just the use of cheats. If there were cheats used, FD should stomp it. If not, kudos to gankers willing to invest months of play just to spoil someone else's fun. I guess. I used a spare SRV to let them have some fun at Beagle.

Bolded part is the important thing, I agree.

The rest doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter if a cheat is used to get a ganker to Beagle Point to gank players, or to make yourself invulnerable in a CZ, or to reach far away systems unreachable by legit means.
Cheating is cheating and needs to be stomped.

Equating gankers with cheaters just because their playstyle is different to another one is not helping in this case.

 

[Stealthie]

I'm not phased by the notion that others might not pay their taxes. Should they ever be audited, that's their problem, not mine. I did what was expected of me.

Are you phased by the roads that don't get fixed because the local authorities don't have the cash, or the damage your car sustains as a result?
Are you phased by the lack of public facilities available as a result of the lost taxes?
Are you phased about organasations such as the police, schools or fire-department not having serviceable equipment because of lack of funding?
Etc.

You should be.

The point being, just 'cos other people's actions don't have a direct effect on you, that doesn't mean they don't affect you indirectly.

And the same applies to cheating in ED.

 

[Bug80]

Why would it upset me? Let me reverse this on you with a slightly different position:

If you abide by a local ordinance that states you must mow your lawn counter-clockwise, but others on your street do not, and mow their lawns clockwise, does this upset you? Or do you take comfort in knowing you are doing right, while everyone else does wrong?

I'm not phased by the notion that others might not pay their taxes. Should they ever be audited, that's their problem, not mine. I did what was expected of me.

You really don't see the difference between my analogy and yours?

The problem in my analogy is: the action of the others have an effect on YOU as well. If your neighbours don't pay taxes, you have to pay MORE taxes.

In Elite: if other players have 20% more shields due to cheating, they will kill you more easily. Or, if they can jump further it reduces your chances later to explore the yet-not-reacheable systems.

 

[RexKraemer]

Is it sure that a cheat with infinite jump range does exist?
Any videos out there to proof?

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Is it sure that a cheat with infinite jump range does exist?
Any videos out there to proof?

I'm not sure how you would get a video of this, unless someone who used this cheat wants to post one...

All of the parameters for the ships are just numbers in code, if it's accepted that a trainer exists that can create invulnerable shields or change a jump range from 50ly to 100ly, then there's no reason that the same trainer can't set the range at 100,000ly.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

I'm not sure how you would get a video of this, unless someone who used this cheat wants to post one...

All of the parameters for the ships are just numbers in code, if it's accepted that a trainer exists that can create invulnerable shields or change a jump range from 50ly to 100ly, then there's no reason that the same trainer can't set the range at 100,000ly.

This. The ships can technically do anything if coded accordingly... Which is exactly what trainers do.

*The game isn't real life. The "laws of X" can be broken by anyone determined enough to break into the game's inner workings, as already proven.

 

[CMDR ROGER]

Dear everyone who thinks Nick deserves to be banned for his protest, the point he's trying to make is that Fdev will do absolutely nothing against cheats until we do something Fdev cares about I.E. blocking docking ports. Plus, Fdev was not consistent with their rules and permabanned him first strike. This is unacceptable.

 

[RexKraemer]

I'm not sure how you would get a video of this, unless someone who used this cheat wants to post one...

All of the parameters for the ships are just numbers in code, if it's accepted that a trainer exists that can create invulnerable shields or change a jump range from 50ly to 100ly, then there's no reason that the same trainer can't set the range at 100,000ly.

I checked the trainer (no, I am not cheating) and as far as I can see, there is no infinit jump range, there is no increase in jump range at all. It is only jumps without fuel costs, so infinit jumps, but no change in range.

And I did not ask, if it is possible, sure it is in general, I asked: is there any proof out there that inifinit jump range is already realized in any cheat?

As the jump range is dynamically calculated and depends on various variables and it is not just a number somewhere in the memory, it maybe not so easy to cheat with that.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

If you can't get there under any means, then who cares if someone else does?

Seriously, think about this - here is a place no one can go, yet someone manages to by some illicit means. Does this prevent you from enjoying the game? Does this prohibit you from going to all the places you can get to legitimately?

If this is the sort of thing you're loosing sleep over, you've got a "You Problem". If you're that bothered by someone else having something you don't, you have a "You Problem".

Therapy is highly suggested in this case. All this worrying about what other people do... I just don't get it.

I dunno Incan definitely see how having someone able to cheat their way to systems completely pulls the rug out of the feeling of achievement for the explorer who spent ages speccing their ship and doggedly found a way to get to hard to reach systems.. what is the point if with a few clicks you can get there yourself?. Imo cheating in offline games is fine but the second you do it in a MP game ,(and for better or worse even in solo ed is a MP game) one which champions 1st discoverers by putting their name in the game then imo cheating becomes a scummy act that may not ruin for all... Bit does take shine off for me at least

 

[Hank]

This especially. While I didn't bother to take the trip to Beagle point (a decal isn't enough to entice me), the fact that some cheaters could be doing this is disgusting. Granted the FSD Booster did make it possible for even a good chunk of Combat ships to have a nice trip for once (and make for some godly screenshots/wallpaper material with unconventional ships in unconventional locations), I wouldn't be surprised if some cheaters went the route of just insta jumping to Beagle point or other major waypoints just to have some slaughter fun.

If a PvP / ganker made the journey legit, then kudos to them and I wish them a bloody good slaughter fest. If a dirty cheater however is there doing it, that is just despicable as they couldn't even bother to chase their prey properly and wanted an easy mode way to gank with a massively unfair advantage.

For me, ^^ this how I feel. I know cheats happen but this game is so fun just the way it is; why cheat ? Heck to get a big advantage over the average pilot, just grind engineers and get the latest Guardian stuff. It will be a long time before I unlock all engineers and crack the code for a GFSB.

My worry ever since Engineers came out was that the grinder crowd would engineer their ships to god-like levels and the average joe or newbie has a starter ship w/o/wo engineering. Now we got ppl who can jump from the bubble to Sag-A (and I can't).

nuff said
GL HF Commanders

 

[Dillon Fallon]

I checked the trainer (no, I am not cheating) and as far as I can see, there is no infinit jump range, there is no increase in jump range at all. It is only jumps without fuel costs, so infinit jumps, but no change in range.

And I did not ask, if it is possible, sure it is in general, I asked: is there any proof out there that inifinit jump range is already realized in any cheat?

As the jump range is dynamically calculated and depends on various variables and it is not just a number somewhere in the memory, it maybe not so easy to cheat with that.

I suppose it could also be that an 'impossible' jump is a big red flag to Frontier and those that have created the trainers know this, so it's not there to avoid drawing attention. I can't argue there's proof, since the nature of this means that a cheater would have to admit doing it (internet rule of pics or it didn't happen would apply)- very unlikely. Alternatively Frontier could communicate to us that this is a cheat they've seen- even less likely.

I imagine we'll find out when a permit blocked area gets opened up and someone already has first discovered on all the systems (assuming Frontier don't reset this first).

 

[5AnaHalfHatsize]

I personally dont think either the devs or frontier are lazy or incompetent. FD management just has budgetary and time priorities. Elite dangerous just doesnt appear to be at the top of the list.

.... And when you look at how much money CIG have made just talking about a space game without even delivering one, that in itself implies incompetence.

 

[sollisb]

I haven't see the slightest hint that the prevalence of cheating or hacking has appreciably increased, just an increase in awareness of both the positive (increased vigilance and calling out of Frontier's dubious countermeasures) and negative (paranoia, unfounded hackusations, FUD, etc) sort.

Well you wouldn't would you? I mean there could be thousands of players online in open, tweaking their ships just that little bit more to give them a more appreciable advantage, and we'd never know would we?

Last weekend's stunt proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that a player can cheat in public view for the entire world to see, and FDev were on holidays.

Now judging by the ban CMDR Nick received, that after an investigation by FDev, Nick had been using these hacks multiple times before last weekend. This raises a few questions;

1. Do FDev have no monitoring in place? Why does it take an investigation to find the use of hacks?
2. How long have these hacks been available? How widespread are they?
3. What exactly is required to get a perma-ban? After apparently using multiple hacks on multiple occasions, and going very public with a 90 minute blackade of the busiest station, the player was handed a shadow-ban. That is an absolute joke!

How safe are you as players in Open now? Does every PvP wannabe have a god ship? Or are they just tweaked a 'little' bit?

I don't know. I doubt you know. And I doubt Frontier do.

 

[Bigmaec]

Well you wouldn't would you? I mean there could be thousands of players online in open, tweaking their ships just that little bit more to give them a more appreciable advantage, and we'd never know would we?

Last weekend's stunt proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that a player can cheat in public view for the entire world to see, and FDev were on holidays.

Now judging by the ban CMDR Nick received, that after an investigation by FDev, Nick had been using these hacks multiple times before last weekend. This raises a few questions;

1. Do FDev have no monitoring in place? Why does it take an investigation to find the use of hacks?
2. How long have these hacks been available? How widespread are they?
3. What exactly is required to get a perma-ban? After apparently using multiple hacks on multiple occasions, and going very public with a 90 minute blackade of the busiest station, the player was handed a shadow-ban. That is an absolute joke!

How safe are you as players in Open now? Does every PvP wannabe have a god ship? Or are they just tweaked a 'little' bit?

I don't know. I doubt you know. And I doubt Frontier do.

On this very special circumstance, I'd even say a probatory ban or shadow-ban is ok, IF the CMDR in question only cheated this time to make it public.
Don't kill the messenger if you don't like the message. But as you said, there are lots of questions. Guess we don't get answers though

 

[sollisb]

On this very special circumstance, I'd even say a probatory ban or shadow-ban is ok, IF the CMDR in question only cheated this time to make it public.
Don't kill the messenger if you don't like the message. But as you said, there are lots of questions. Guess we don't get answers though

Not attempting to kill anyone mate. I'm kinda frustrated at the complete incompetence of this company. Any other MMO and the account would have been shredded. In Frontiers case, they said 'naughty boy, goto solo'.

Anyone who is anyone last weekend saw an online player give the proverbial middle finger to Frontier, and on Tuesday, Frontier flaffed about and sent him to solo mode. There more balls on my auntie.

 

[RexKraemer]

I suppose it could also be that an 'impossible' jump is a big red flag to Frontier and those that have created the trainers know this, so it's not there to avoid drawing attention. I can't argue there's proof, since the nature of this means that a cheater would have to admit doing it (internet rule of pics or it didn't happen would apply)- very unlikely. Alternatively Frontier could communicate to us that this is a cheat they've seen- even less likely.

I imagine we'll find out when a permit blocked area gets opened up and someone already has first discovered on all the systems (assuming Frontier don't reset this first).

The trainer contains cheats which are marked as "using this will likely result in ban", the others are "save to use".

My current guess is (maybe to optimistic), that there are no cheats in the wild, which let you increase the jump range, because it is much more difficult to find the parameters which are used to calculate the current jump range. There are no values (fuel, weight, ...) available in the game to find easily on the heap to cheatengine with.

Yes, it would be great if FDev would relax their communication walls a bit.

 

[Morbad]

Last weekend's stunt proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that a player can cheat in public view for the entire world to see, and FDev were on holidays.

Essentially no one disagrees that Frontier's response to cheating is lacking.

How safe are you as players in Open now?

The effects of cheating are hardly limited to Open and I'm generally just as offended by someone cheating out of sight of my CMDR as I am with more direct encounters, due to the potential effects on aspects of the BGS that underpin the whole game, not to mention the paranoia and chilling effect that reverberates throughout the player base. Hackers harm my experience even if I never encounter them.

Anyway, even if we limit the discussion to direct encounters with hackers, I cannot say for certain how many times I've experience this. If seen some overt issues, but I'm confident the overwhelming majority were bugs, or simply holes in my knowledge of a game mechanism. Some could surely have been deliberate, however. Sufficiently subtle hacks could well have gone completely unnoticed, and sure this is problem, but the 'danger' is mostly in someone being able to manipulate the broader game, or the way people play it, in a way they should not. Most subtle hacks would simply result in my CMDR having to retreat a little sooner, or their CMDR being able to hang in there a little longer.

Does every PvP wannabe have a god ship?

Generally, yes.

Getting a perfectly built vessel is the easy part. Being able to fly it is what takes effort.

Or are they just tweaked a 'little' bit?

I'm sure some of them are.

I don't know. I doubt you know. And I doubt Frontier do.

If you are looking for absolute certainty, and comprehensive statistics, you're looking for the impossible.

We can still make observations and inferences. And Frontier has at least some hard data.

The problem in my analogy is: the action of the others have an effect on YOU as well. If your neighbours don't pay taxes, you have to pay MORE taxes.

Taxes are a crappy analogy because taxes are compulsory. Indeed, taxation fits the dictionary definition of extortion. You cough up the money, or the state will use it's unilateral monoploy on force to make you pay, lock you away, or do away with you. If I don't like paying taxes, I cannot safely opt out, except by reducing my income to below subsistence levels. I was never given any real choice, and that's quite by design...no one would opt in to taxation.

Games are different. No one is compelled to play this game. They wanted to play and they knew there were conditions that they then freely agreed to...if they didn't like the terms, they could have refrained from playing and even gotten a refund. Agreeing to those terms, then going back on that agreement, in a way that directly or indirectly harms the experience of others, is the problem here.