My open letter to Fdev

[Lemonhoko]

Speaking for myself (not the player group I am with) I applaud the actions of the 13th Legion and hope enough people will follow the example until FD has no choice but to make changes

And I hope FD bans more people for doing so.
This is not the proper way to act towards your fellow gamers.

If you have a beef with the game, discuss it with the game makers, do not kill or harm an innocent persons game play because you have not figured out the proper way to communicate with the game makers.
I, personally am happy that FD is reinforcing their EULA.

 

[AJW]

The OP seems to be under the impression that game developers are susceptible to blackmail - 'change the game our way, or we will disrupt other players'. Not a good idea. Likely to end in tears. This sort of nonsense has been tried before, in other games, and it doesn't work. The developers hold all the cards, and are unlikely to take kindly to threats which can directly effect their profit margins.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

I have done loads of community goals in open, an rarely if ever die, it pretty simple in this game to learn how not to die.

Sadly though, not everyone has the same level of experience we may have.
Relating to the recent AI debate, there are a lot of players who never had to learn the game, because it was very easy, and they would not survive.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

it would be funny if fd actually did this and like 10 people in open took part in them

It would be one poor guy trying to do the CG and nine chasing him. Would just need Benny Hill music
.
But seriously, I've been doing CGs in open and I often see other CMDRs. Some I've avoided, some have avoided me, other I've had a chat with. Open isn't as dead as some people claim.

 

[Electric Kite]

Do you really think writing open letters on a broken keyboard will change the world?

*dadumtshh*

I'll get my coat...

lmao


brilliant

 

[Dave1235]

Below is an open letter sent to Fdev via opening a ticket...

Greetings Fdev,


This message is to address the currentCG in Sagevon system. I am a ranking member of the Empire's 13^thLegion. Over the last 4+ days we had a mission to blockade the CGthat is clearly a Federation attempt to take control of the Meropeand surrounding systems. Unfortunately, you have created a game wherehuge player groups such as Mobius (being the biggest) can partake inthe CG in private or solo with virtually no resistance other than anoccasional weak NPC interdiction, which is a joke. As such, PowerPlay is broke, as there is no real way to properly defend against theFederation, who you seem to favor in just about any CG.


So this last 4 days, we used ourgranted access to Mobius private group to blockade ONLY theSagevon system in both Mobius groups andin Open play. Our intent was not to “club baby seals” but toappose the CG in a role play capacity. Despite what some may claim,we always declared our intentions as enforcing a blockade andallowing them to high wake. Most ignored us and were promptlydestroyed. After dealing with multiple combat logs by Mobius CMDRsand them declaring they would continue in Solo, and after giving verypublic notice in Redit, and further monitoring Mobius's forums (whichare open for all to see) we began to give them a little less time tocomply. Further with the starport being a very short 21LS from thesun it meant there just wasn't much time for us to wait for theircompliance. I assure you that had the station been further from thestar, we would have given them much more time and leaniancy, but wehad to make sure that the CG was effectively blockaded and many CMDRsin both open and Mobius were destroyed.


Now in contrast to other player groups,we actually don't find killing Mobius overly challenging, especiallywhen most of mobius was trading in Cutters and Condas with basicshields and nothing but mines for weapons. (Which just proves howpathetic the AI is at countering the CG or pirating). The solepurpose was to not allow the largest private group in the game toinfluence the CG without resistance. The orders were for our groupthat if you were kicked out of the group by Mobius, to NOT attempt togain access again, as that would breach your EULA. We simply wouldthen continue the blockade in Open play.


These actions simply go to protest howprivate play and solo can affect Power Play as a whole since there isno real way to counter it effectively. We do not care if othersprefer to play in private or solo, so long as their actions do notaffect the rest of the players. Which is why being in private or soloshould not be allowed to participate in a CG or Power Play. Itssimple common sense and logic here.


By Sunday (USA time) the CG went intolock down and you (Fdev) voted to remove the hard work that Empirealigned players put into the game. By doing so you have set aprecedent and basically told the community that there is no point inopposing a CG from now on as you will just eliminate that action witha keystroke. I don't know if you entirely understand the can ofworms you have opened with this action. Power play groups (especiallyEmpire aligned) are asking themselves why bother with the CG that isalso related to power play such as the current one since it isbasically a predetermined outcome by Fdev who will simplyalter/change any effect created by groups like ours.


Even outside the current CG as far asPower Play goes, by allowing CMDRs to participate in Power play inprivate and solo, you have created a situation where opposing them isimpossible. The entire premise is just flat out stupid frankly. Youknow, if you were to turn off CG's and PP in private and solo, thosepeople who played there would complain for about a few weeks. Thenthey would get over it and realize open isn't that bad. Especially ifopen got a huge influx of pacifists such as Mobius, as the ratiowould change dramatically. Everyone would still be able to play asthey wish, and simply understanding the dangers of going to a CGwhere you can bet there will be some opposition, can help them decideif they want to partake in it or not, AND if they do, simply readytheir ship defend itself a bit, or maybe wing up (strength innumbers) or even align with PvP groups to provide protection. Case inpoint at the last CG to build an imperial Cruiser, Several groupsincluding the Empire's 13^th Legion provided protection forthe traders doing the CG. This adds so much more dimension to thegame, as well as posibilites.


I strongly recommend that you changethe way that Private and Solo play effect everyone. Mobius oftencomplains that they just want to play it their way withoutinterference from others in a strictly PvE mode. Unfortunately theway you have created the game makes it so that Mobius CMDRs influenceEVERYONE when the participate in CG's and Power play, which is unfairand wrong. Mobius fails to see that there are two sides to the coinhere because they simply seem to lack logic, or just can't see pastthemselves.




Regards,


CMDR BKRambo
Centurion of The Empire's 13^thLegion

Lol the only problems are you bought the wrong game, you cant threaten to withdraw your sub to try to bully them into doing what you want (wrong game again)
And you can't find victims in open because you're too late others beat you too it. See a pattern?
Thanks for your donation and hope you enjoy valkrie. Actually I couldn't care less as long as you go away.
Eta
Fd better upgrade the servers with all the people that will leave solo and groups for open now.

 

[Mike Syron]

Some guys have some serious issues, seriously. For example myself. I can't rep Ziggy, I should write an open letter about it. This is by no means acceptable. You hear me, admin?! You force me to hack the forum, it's an serious matter. Seriously.

Speaking for myself (not the player group I am with) I applaud the actions of the 13th Legion and hope enough people will follow the example until FD has no choice but to make changes

Oh, please! [heart]

 

[FX2K]

But if you have a 50/50 it likely the majority of instances will be filled with opposing players, unless someone is cheating and stopping people from appearing their instances. Not a useful exploit now but probably one that would show up if Frontier ever do the sensible thing an stop solo/private groups from doing power play and community goals.

Not necessarily. Why filled with opposing players? Why not filled with supporting players?

If matchmaking / instances favour friends / wings, then supporting players is more likely, resulting in a very one sided instance.
Since I am not on your friends list, in your group or wing or whatever, for me.. there would still be no blockade in sight (potentially) unless you had players in all created instances (if that's even possible) performing a blockade spanning 24 hours.

Of course, somebody.. somewhere may stumble into that instance and perhaps witness the blockade, but that's the case already.

 

[Achilles7]

LMAO!!!

Were you in the crowd at Wimbledon?..'cos they laugh at any unfunny too!

Hahaha..there's a pigeon on the court - that's just hilaaaaaarious!

 

[Electric Kite]

Were you in the crowd at Wimbledon?..'cos they laugh at any unfunny too!

Hahaha..there's a pigeon on the court - that's just hilaaaaaarious!

Excpet what he was laughing at was funny.

Is that going to be the next thing we complain about now?? People laughing?

Are we going to moan to FD to nerf it because it breaks immersion?

Im convinced people have literally no other avenue to vent their inner sadness than on these forums.

Seriously.

 

[Cowboy Bats]

Personally I have only took one thing from this that shouldn't have been done. That is the God modding hand waving 'fix' to a legitimate use of the BGS.

Nonsense. Frontier realized that the current BGS mechanics had the potential to just shut down CG's for good, and as a stop-gap solution undid the damage, until they can adjust the mechanics to make sure it doesn't happen in the future. Of course that is exactly what will happen. There will be no moving system into unrest to stop CG's in the future. A perfectly sound and reasonable response on Frontier's part. The fact that it's made the Mobius invaders salty is just a cherry on top.

 

[Abomination]

Real roleplaying interactions can only happen if everyone is in the same boat.
This game is trying to be an MMO but has solo / private group options. They don't match.

I was there too: complaining about pvp, about griefers, me hiding in solo, quitely and safely doing cg runs after being attacked and killed in open.
But it's really a state of mind players should try to see through.

ED, a game with traders and pirates, opposing political parties and wars. Solo and private groups are like fighting a war where you can't even see the enemy.
Yet, you can hurt them but they can't hurt you. How boring and unfair.

Limiting CG's and PP to open would be an excellent solution in my opinion.
Too bad it will hurt the player-base a lot.. and I can fully understand why.

I'm not a pvp-er nor do I like forced upon pvp action without valid rp reasons, but roleplaying as a Jack Sparrow type pirate
or actually trying to support or defend a certain in-game faction is not only OK in my book, it's what makes this game's story evolve.
So +1 for your effort.

I really Hope Frontier will be able to find a proper solution for this problem, one that will not enrage half the player-base. It will be very difficult.

 

[Cowboy Bats]

If players ask for stuff like community goals to be made available only to people who want to play with the whole community then with enough persistence and a loud enough voice we have a fairly good chance to make Frontier listen to us.

Problem is that you don't seem to get that it's a minority of open only zealots who keep making the same demand. It's not the 'community' that is speaking, just a few, and I agree with FD that they are best ignored.

 

[Dave1235]

You can't see that a player group as large as Möbius working on a CG unopposed is a problem in certain situations? Please, guys. Be rational.

Its a private group for pve not a pp faction people are playing there on all sides just like solo players mobius or solo doesn't mean they are against you the splits are likely the same as in open. Why wouldn't they be?
Idiots with agendas trying to break the game if it don't change to eve in cockpits. To late suckers ddf closed years ago

 

[Pville_Piper]

The thing that slays me is that y'all act like everybody in Mobius is working the community goal. Sad, y'all need to grow up and take the game a bit less seriously... Honestly, I've never got the whole role playing thing anyway, it's a GAME.

 

[znôrt]

Yes, i have. I've also heard of blatant disrespect and bullying, for no other purpose than gaining attention and causing grief.

Seems to me some people still live in caves, caves with internet.

sure, but that's not what OP is about.

you might dismiss it as a cover up for griefing, or may deem it inaccurate or dishonest, but even so there are some valid points made. frontier themselves (link above) reckon that cg balance is broken. it was known, but it has now come to collective attention and urgency through this action, and some sort of solution is now expected. that's as close to activism as it gets in a game.

i have no idea if the statement is honest or if the action was actually carried out fully as described. maybe it's just for the lulz or totally a troll. but you have to give them that: it makes sense as described, and there is still an issue to address.

tbh if you are really involved in the game (many of us are) i can understand that watching your efforts getting trampled over by a host of players that elude challenge alltogether might warrant a call for action, and how such a population like mobius is a juicy target to rise awareness. i can understand the same for powerplay fans vs mindless solo grinders, i bet they would do something similar now and then but just don't have such good targets available. this is a core problem of a universe that frontier declares uncontrollable but still stubbornly wants to somehow control, and it's an issue for a big part of the player base for different reasons that frontier just hasn't figured out how to handle.

i can also understand that it infuriates someone to get unexpectedly blown up. no question, they are victims. but if the action was carried out as described they didn't have to die. they could play the role, or even show some understanding like you do when buses go on strike. and they were never guarranteed not to die except by their private hosts: their ingame sense of security is false anyway and uncalled for imo, it's just a workaround. a private group that size is impossible to police with total confidence, and that isn't in reach of frontier either. unless you play solo or with trusted people only, the possibility of death by player is always there, it can happen anywhere at any time for no reason, but specially if you get jumped on by a cmdr in superior outfit telling you to u-turn and you refuse, or you know what's going on but still try because, you know, you have private rules. yes, a separate pve environment could be a solution ... provided it has its own bgs. i'm totally fine if anyone doesn't want to be bothered, but then he/she shouldn't have any influence on the collective. if not i'd be infiltrating mobius and ramming cmdrs to boredom for justice myself!

all this of course assuming the statement is legitimate and mobius was chosen because of the repercussion, and there is no specific grief against the group going on. honestly i have no idea.

looks i got carried away writing my irrelevant and unsolicited opinion, not directed at you, really.

 

[Hydrino]

The OP fails to realize that the game is instanced and blockades can never work no matter the mode one chooses.

I play in Open and rarely see other players. If the PvP group was global, covered all times and geographies then the scheme might stand a small chance of influencing a CG. But even then, how many players would be required to fill each and every possible Open instance "bubble" for a blockade?

If the game world was 100% server-side and sharded then blockades per shard might work- again assuming persons dedicated 24/7 and spread across all shards.

In any event, have OP seriously considered the game's underlying architecture before posting? What OP wants is not realistic (maybe in EVE, but that is not twitch-based game-play). And FD are not-likely to gut the entire back-end and start over at this point- much bigger mischief is to be completed.

Not to mention the poor form of joining a group under false pretenses and disturbing the members of said group pointlessly (see note on game architecture, above). This Mobius trick has already been done, so now repeating it is just daft. There are also other Private Groups and Solo players that PvP efforts would have to infiltrate to affect a blockade. So this discussion needs to happen in the Solo vs. Open thread, and oh, it has already raged for long over there.

What would be more constructive? Start a thread and have a lot of OP supporters and friends to contribute to keep it visible. In that thread offer ideas on how to make CG's more subject to a blockade mechanic. This has been done before for instance around Cap Ship battle instances which have their own issues with a multiplayer instance game.

 

[vizvayu]

I truly hope FD will swiftly ban each and every one of these griefers before this game becomes like EVE.

And I say griefer because you logged into a private group, which is explicitly for PvE, to attack and destroy other players. That's sociopathic behaviour and should have consequences.

 

[Cowboy Bats]

ever heard of activism or civil disobedience? if it weren't for broken rules you'd still live in a cave. no internets for you!

This may well be the first time I've seen anyone trying to dismiss bullying as civil disobedience. I don't think that term means what you think it does.

 

[Icebergdx]

You dropped that /thread a bit prematurely, get a bit excited huh? Relax a bit and read that post you referenced - the key bit is this right here:
"If a player has been blocked from a private group, or a group/individual has taken every step possible to remove a player from their gameplay, then attempting to circumvent this in any fashion is a serious offense and action will be taken accordingly."

^ so at no point did members of the 13th try to get back on the server after being removed. They asked to join the group - Mobius allowed; they didn't follow the rules, yes - but then they were removed. That was it. There is nothing bannable or harassing based on the very definition you posted. So yea... /not thread.

Except some of those members, when removed from the group, and asked in game to log and leave DID NOT, thereby using a game mechanic to circumvent the ban. In the case of at least 4 individuals, they left their computers on the game for TWO DAYS, because until they logged out of the group, they were not banned yet by the game mechanic of group removal. VIDEO EVIDENCE of these commanders still being in the server 2 days after ban is in FDev's hands. That shows intent and action to violate the rules, the EULA, and the posting from March clarifying the action.

Keep trying but you are wrong, they broke the rules, they paid. And no amount of seabag lawyering my you is going to change the fact that they knowingly and willingly harassed and bullies using game mechanics, in disreguard of EULA 4.4.