Horizons My opinion about planet landing and exploring.

Hello mates.
This post is made from a game-maker point of view (amateur, but nonetheless one).
Entering a planet, choosing a spot to land and travelling around in a SRV is fun. Yes it is, confusing at first, but fun.
Very fun? No, just that kind of fun you get when you do something for the first time.
And that's the problem, it quickly gets boring. It's like a trip to moon's surface every time.
It's not a thing that can get players hooked on. I can use the example of planet landings in mass effect 1. THOSE were always fun.
Planets were very different, the mako was a beast to drive, and apart the stupid climbing over big mountains, it was fun to explore, to find a giant worm or a defended base to attack.
I have to give this warning to FD. If they go this way, horizons will loose its worth quickly. I guess the only reason people land on planets now is just because of the huge rewards.

How to solve this?
Not easy, but imagination is the answer.
Planets lack atmosphere. They all look like barren wastes where camps and bases suddenly are placed without any terraforming or signs of civilization (humans are colonizing it, aren't they?)
More over, it seems that if you go on this path, until you have proper details for planets and all the mechanics fixed, you'll be over your head with the immensity of the task.
Make it shorter.
Make the landing on planets part of an instance. You can make a faster approach effect like the hyper jump. Generate atmospheres to planet to give a better idea of its type. Generate procedurally each instance of terrain according with missions or landing targets:
Bases with heavy terraformed areas (more smooth driving, and predefined roads for SRVs to travel)
Colonies with agricultural structures
Industry centers with big drills and factories
Mining compounds
Military bases with heavy defenses
alien ruins
ship crashing sites
etc...
instead of spreading small things on big planets with giant areas to explore, make it personal. Put them hot on the wheels of the SRV
give them more types of vehicles (light SRVs, raid bikes, cargo armored vehicles, light tanks, heavy tanks, hovercarfts...)
If you tile-base an instance's mapping, you can generate different scenarios quite effectively, and give it a great variety of options)
The atmosphere is very important (sand storms, electric storms, meteor showers, lava areas, toxic gases, heavy methane clouds...)

Please consider these words.

Now I must report a bug:
I've encountered serious clipping issues when driving the SRV
Specially one right when dropping the SRV from ship. Sometimes the ship lands too low on the terrain (the landing gear gets half-inside the land mesh) When this happens, the SRV will be dropped inside the land mesh and not on top. It will start falling down indefinitely.
Sometimes this happens when driving the SRV. Instead of climbing a hill, it will cross the mesh without clip detection, and start falling down.
 
The countless explorers disagree with you. But to discuss with you, you realize these planets are supposed to be barren and are merely step one in the many types of planets coming right? Basic volcanism is coming soon, then we will have atmospheric worlds and water worlds, then worlds with life, and gas giants. But those things take time to do right. Ill warn you though, if you find the current exploration boring, you just find no objective boring. The animals they add, and signs of life you will find boring after seeing them once as well. You are probably just the kind of person who enjoys completing objectives instead of screwing around. Ive been on 6 expeditions so far and ive had a lot of fun each time. I have 1000s of screen shots and over 250 hours of just exploration.
 
I just spent 2.5 hours on a Moon for no reason, other than it was there, and I enjoyed every second of it.
 
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Well, there are opinions like yours. Driving aimlessly on a barren world just because. You are just defending the game because you want to. I am trying to give an easier goal to the devs, a better and faster way to achieve a finish game. This way of doing things will only get elite:dangerous into beta for more 5 years.
Now a side note:
I have wasted more than 30 minutes trying to land properly on a planet. By checking the scene camera, one can see the outside of the ship and check the landing gear. Most of the time, the landing gear on my ASP-X is inside the terrain mesh. This causes the SRV to drop inside the mesh also. Devs, check the ASP-X landing gear height, and probably all the other ships, because this kind of bug is... how can I say this... unacceptable for a DLC that has been payed for?

Cheers.
 
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I really like interacting with planetary surfaces, but I agree there is a lot of untapped potential there. There really just needs to be a few more things to do on the surfaces, and a few more things to find. Maybe some kind of surface survey equipment you can deploy and utilize to get more exploration or prospecting information or something? Maybe revamp the occupied escape pod thing into a fully fleshed out search and rescue mission type that requires more things to be done on the surface to rescue the pods? There are all kinds of things you could come up with for us to do on the surface, even barren, airless ones.
 
Well, there are opinions like yours. Driving aimlessly on a barren world just because. You are just defending the game because you want to. I am trying to give an easier goal to the devs, a better and faster way to achieve a finish game. This way of doing things will only get elite:dangerous into beta for more 5 years.

There is no real "end game" in E: D. Sounds like you're one of those people who would "pay to win", only there is no "win". You get better ships, more capability, and experience.

Now a side note:
I have wasted more than 30 minutes trying to land properly on a planet. By checking the scene camera, one can see the outside of the ship and check the landing gear. Most of the time, the landing gear on my ASP-X is inside the terrain mesh. This causes the SRV to drop inside the mesh also. Devs, check the ASP-X landing gear height, and probably all the other ships, because this kind of bug is... how can I say this... unacceptable for a DLC that has been payed for?

Cheers.

I really think something specific to your install is borked. I haven't had problems with the SRV dropping through the surface, and haven't read of anyone else experiencing that, either.

The Asp specifically is very low compared to other ships. In fact it can be possible to get trapped.

Do you run lower graphics settings at all? Just wondering if your planets are rendering differently and revealing the bug.

It would be helpful to know which planets specifically you are seeing this problem with, then it can be checked out.
 
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There is no real "end game" in E: D. Sounds like you're one of those people who would "pay to win", only there is no "win". You get better ships, more capability, and experience.
Mercury7, there's a law in this universe... it says that things are born, they grown up, they get old, and eventually they die. Video Games live by this law also.
EVE online has been here for a loong time, because they are good at improving the initial game, and they provide excellent support to players.
Regarding elite:dangerous... there's a big monster on its tail, it's called star citizen and uses the same sandbox as elite. I do think this game can't stay in beta for much longer.

Regarding the clipping bug, I was using low graphics resolution. I tweaked terrain quality to medium, but I still find cases where the ASP has the landing gear inside the mesh. I don't think pushing it to high will solve the problem. Anyway, this is a bug, and it's fair to warn the devs about it.
 
Troopi, while some of your points are valid I find that I get most enjoyment from Elite when I refrain from looking at it from an academic perspective.

Personally I love the length of time it takes to approach and land on a planet.

I have an X52 Pro and ED head tracker and I love the feeling of the planet slowly filling up the screen and a 'horizon' being created as the altitude falls.

I like to look left and right from the generous bridge of my Anconda and spy out interesting rock formations or canyons to land in.

When I'm in my SRV I tend not to drive at full speed ahead but rather creep over the undulating landscape, taking my time to scrabble up steep slopes or negotiate treacherous gorges.

If you play the game at a 'non gamer' pace I think you'll find plenty of deep satisfaction to glean from it.

Sometimes on approach to a planet I pull the throttle way back and orbital cruise at the minimum speed (I think it's 30km per sec) it takes way longer but my God man it is a beautiful and majestic thing to see - and that way all the assests get a chance to load and the drop from orbital cruise to glide only takes a second!

I for one would definitely *not* want quicker landings. Anything that makes this game similar to No Man's Buy (NMS) should be well avoided.

Often I am dismayed that game designers try to beguile us with 'things to do' thinking that we will become 'bored'. It insults our intelligence. Perhaps its true for some people that Elite is boring but tbh even Skyrim can become tiresome if you binge on it too much.

The fact is that planets truly *are* monotonous expanses of barren rock. The fact that Frontier have made no apology for this is heartening and I respect their artistic stance on this occasion.

Remember the producer for Star Wars Episode 1? 'Every scene is so dense, so packed with stuff' see how episode 1 turned out?

We don't need that in Elite.

Are you worried about Star Citizen taking the laurels from Elite?
 
Troopi, while some of your points are valid I find that I get most enjoyment from Elite when I refrain from looking at it from an academic perspective.

Personally I love the length of time it takes to approach and land on a planet.

I have an X52 Pro and ED head tracker and I love the feeling of the planet slowly filling up the screen and a 'horizon' being created as the altitude falls.

I like to look left and right from the generous bridge of my Anconda and spy out interesting rock formations or canyons to land in.

When I'm in my SRV I tend not to drive at full speed ahead but rather creep over the undulating landscape, taking my time to scrabble up steep slopes or negotiate treacherous gorges.

If you play the game at a 'non gamer' pace I think you'll find plenty of deep satisfaction to glean from it.

Sometimes on approach to a planet I pull the throttle way back and orbital cruise at the minimum speed (I think it's 30km per sec) it takes way longer but my God man it is a beautiful and majestic thing to see - and that way all the assests get a chance to load and the drop from orbital cruise to glide only takes a second!

I for one would definitely *not* want quicker landings. Anything that makes this game similar to No Man's Buy (NMS) should be well avoided.

Often I am dismayed that game designers try to beguile us with 'things to do' thinking that we will become 'bored'. It insults our intelligence. Perhaps its true for some people that Elite is boring but tbh even Skyrim can become tiresome if you binge on it too much.

The fact is that planets truly *are* monotonous expanses of barren rock. The fact that Frontier have made no apology for this is heartening and I respect their artistic stance on this occasion.

Remember the producer for Star Wars Episode 1? 'Every scene is so dense, so packed with stuff' see how episode 1 turned out?

We don't need that in Elite.

Are you worried about Star Citizen taking the laurels from Elite?

Hence why I said "pay to play". He apparently wants instant gratification (jump to surface) rather than the awesome vistas to be had entering orbit and finally dropping down to the surface. I think he has completely missed the beauty of E: D.
 
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I will choose to salvage mission on a planet over other types a lot of time. I like the landing, and I enjoy driving around. Seeing a large crater, speed at it, thrust up and see if I can clear it on the one hop. I can see some say it is boring, but it isn't for me and a lot of others. To each their own is the best way to put it. I enjoy the driving and a lot of the spin outs I get if not careful on a low G-World and I make to fast a turn.
.
Calebe
 
Anyway... The Devs have said they want to add more to do on planets so it is not like it is in it's finished state.

So OP, it will come in some form. Ah, how I look forward to future; but then again lets not have the future spoil our present, try some of the positive suggestions here to hold you over until said future arrive :)
 
I haven't had problems with the SRV dropping through the surface, and haven't read of anyone else experiencing that, either.

The Asp specifically is very low compared to other ships.

just as a note, i've experienced this also with the AspX. If you land on a bulge the SRV can sometimes be lowered below the planet mesh. Got a nice screenie of the planet from the inside as i fell! luckily i wasn't... too far out the bubble :mad:
 
Hey mates

I completely understand that you like the landing and surface exploring the way it is, but you can't look at this game from only your point of you. There are many different kinds of gamers, and not all have the leisure of being able to spend more than 4 hours a day playing a game. I'm one of those many. I have work and chores to do, so the time I have free for some sci-fi fun, it must be worth it.
Also, I'm not an easy going guy, a "pay to win" guy. I've been around for very long. I've played the original elite in a zx spectrum. So, when I get to the trouble of posting about the length it will take to achieve a proper finish to the horizons dlc, I know what I'm talking about. If Elite:Dangerous keeps on this path, it will end with a reduced niche of players, it will turn into a game of cult, and the devs will have to move on to another project since the game won't pay them enough to further improvements.

Remember the producer for Star Wars Episode 1? 'Every scene is so dense, so packed with stuff' see how episode 1 turned out?
The problem with Star-wars episode 1 is called Disney syndrome. They turned a hardcore style of starwars into a child's movie. That's what went wrong. The amount of content could never change that fault. They tried to ammend it with episode 2 and 3, but still, the disease lingered.
 
I understand the time issue - it is by no means a "jump in and fly for 5 minutes" game. I actually think of it as a sim as a result.

Good that you don't "pay to win"!

I'm not sure what to suggest.
 
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ME1 planetary drops were fun? Those square maps? Those minigames for unlocking a slab of resources? Those POIs with always the same assets? Overly cragged terrain to navigate the Mako?

Well, it was OK at it's time, but it's definitely not what would pass in an open sandbox game.
 
If they could get planets with atmosphere to the game right now, do you really think they wouldn't have done it? This is the first phase of planetary landings. There can be very little life on these planets, and they are regularly adding more content to these planets. Lots of things you suggested are already in the game, and I can imagine many, if not all of the stuff will get added as soon as they will be able to implement it.
 
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I would like a more realistic planetary approach quite frankly, more sim like.
Also exploration is just a little dull, but Obsidian Ant has some great ideas, but like all good ideas on these forums, they wont be implemented, as FD are sticking to their roadmap, and by the time they start to improve the basic game everyone who cares about ED will be long gone.

Anyway check it out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOz6g92TX0g
 
Hey mates

I completely understand that you like the landing and surface exploring the way it is, but you can't look at this game from only your point of you. There are many different kinds of gamers, and not all have the leisure of being able to spend more than 4 hours a day playing a game. I'm one of those many. I have work and chores to do, so the time I have free for some sci-fi fun, it must be worth it.
Also, I'm not an easy going guy, a "pay to win" guy. I've been around for very long. I've played the original elite in a zx spectrum. So, when I get to the trouble of posting about the length it will take to achieve a proper finish to the horizons dlc, I know what I'm talking about. If Elite:Dangerous keeps on this path, it will end with a reduced niche of players, it will turn into a game of cult, and the devs will have to move on to another project since the game won't pay them enough to further improvements.


The problem with Star-wars episode 1 is called Disney syndrome. They turned a hardcore style of starwars into a child's movie. That's what went wrong. The amount of content could never change that fault. They tried to ammend it with episode 2 and 3, but still, the disease lingered.

I only play 3-6 hours a week, but I love planetary landings as they are. They are an event everytime I do it, and I never get bored of them, the same when taking off as well and driving aound in the SRV. The planets are going to look even better after the Tuesday Update as well. Having VR helps as well.

I can go snap with the ZX Spectrum version of elite as well.

When it comes other projects, they are to release Planet Coaster very soon. There will be season 3 sometime next year which will add another dimension to the game (what that is we don't know yet).
Atmospheric planets are coming, planets with life are coming, planets with citys are coming, and a first person mode is coming. But they all take a lot of time to do well.

Regarding the problems with the SRV and the ASP X, it seems to be an issue mainly with that ship. Bug report it and hopefully they will get it fixed. I don't use that ship and haven't suffered from that problem for about 6-7 months now.

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I would like a more realistic planetary approach quite frankly, more sim like.
Also exploration is just a little dull, but Obsidian Ant has some great ideas, but like all good ideas on these forums, they wont be implemented, as FD are sticking to their roadmap, and by the time they start to improve the basic game everyone who cares about ED will be long gone.

Anyway check it out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOz6g92TX0g

Apart from the fact that the basic game is being improved at every update.
 
When it comes other projects, they are to release Planet Coaster very soon. There will be season 3 sometime next year which will add another dimension to the game (what that is we don't know yet).
Atmospheric planets are coming, planets with life are coming, planets with citys are coming, and a first person mode is coming. But they all take a lot of time to do well.

This is precisely the matter of the topic. There's so much things on the list... will they really be able to deliver before everyone leaves to play a newer and better game?
But, hey, this post is just my opinion as a game-maker, and a pack of ideas to make it easier and quicker to achieve a final product.
The devs will do what they will, no matter our posts, yet, everyone's feedback is important.

Regarding the Asp-X bug, it's probably a ship specific problem. By checking the view camera, one can see how low the landing gear is. And I've been able to avoid the SRV drop bug by checking this camera before deploying it.
 
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