My Response to the Elite Community and Thoughts on "Colonia and the Thargoids" – Video by ObsidianAnt

[kofeyh]

It's mostly empty space between here and the moon, and yet humans still found it compelling to cross that distance and land on that moon.

It was compelling to get to the Moon. Because of the Moon. The crew had plenty to do, but the goal was the moon. Even for the first flight around the moon. The goal was the moon. The space in-between is just the challenge to overcome, because reality is really really unfair to human meat puppets who are not able to survive a vacuum and radiation is a serious obstacle, even now.

In our case, the challenge is pressing a button often enough to cover the intervening period. But given frontier do not implicitly want us to press that button indefinitely (as the reason given for HSL rearm is to anchor us to the bubble), and that it's simply a cover for instance load, means it will never, ever be engaging.

Oh come on, I've waited years to use that joke!

 

[WR3ND]

It was compelling to get to the Moon. Because of the Moon. The crew had plenty to do, but the goal was the moon. Even for the first flight around the moon. The goal was the moon. The space in-between is just the challenge to overcome, because reality is really really unfair to human meat puppets who are not able to survive a vacuum and radiation is a serious obstacle, even now.

In our case, the challenge is pressing a button often enough to cover the intervening period. But given frontier do not implicitly want us to press that button indefinitely (as the reason given for HSL rearm is to anchor us to the bubble), and that it's simply a cover for instance load, means it will never, ever be engaging.

Oh come on, I've waited years to use that joke!

Yep, and that's why it was my response to the person that only saw jump honking as a way to get from A to B. It might be the fastest way, but there's more than that you can do along the way. On the other hand, just jumping out to Colonia directly wouldn't be engaging either, and it would make Colonia just the same as everywhere else, i.e., not somewhere special worth going to in particular, leastwise not more so than any number of other places which happen to be much closer to the bubble.

They can add more to explore along the way, maybe even more dangers and the like, or the occasional varied maintenance type activities to keep our craft shipshape and spaceworthy. Something a bit more interesting and worth overcoming. You know they have to have all sorts of things to keep those astronauts busy up there, never mind that just about everything can pilot itself these days.

 

[kofeyh]

They can add more to explore along the way, maybe even more dangers and the like, or the occasional varied maintenance type activities to keep our craft shipshape and spaceworthy.

True, however the current trend is to remove the variety from exploration. So I am afraid the developer is simplifying and reducing the mechanics down because they are being asked to. The explorers who want things to do, and to be more engaged, and be exposed to more amazing phenomena in the galaxy, are in the minority.

This was as much a surprising as it was sad realisation, as it probably now is to you.

 

[WR3ND]

I could always start a poll...

...oh, wait. [knocked out]

I think it's likely that there are enough explorers that want that sort of thing though. Shame some people only see the path of least resistance which happens to be jump honking. We aren't robots, you know, maybe cyborgs, but not robots.

Perhaps you're right, and maybe that's why I was having a rant over it in the first place.

Well, either way, at least I've aired my grievances, concerns, and perspective, and hopefully this conversation can spark a little food for thought and reflection.

 

[lokvette]

I dont see be able to get to Coloina quicker now is a bad thing, and I did it just after the station was found, in fact I was half way there doing it the old school way when I took a time out from the game, came back and we have a few more stations along the way and NS jumps. Lets just say got back quicker than I went out and stopped along the way.

At the moment Im sitting on a moon in a system at the very edge of the outer arm, and getting here took a lv2 fsd boost, next stop is going to take a lv3 fsd boost as there are 4 systems beyond that I want to get to/explore/put my name on I was just seeing how far I could get out, I started at my home system then went about 13k out to the Perseus fade, went left till I was lined up witht he Heart Nebula, then out to one of the Mega ships, from there out the outer arm to be sitting on the edge of the galaxy. (around 17.4k from Sol and 34.2k from Coloina.

Guess what Im trying to say is I muust be knocking on for 40k ish distance on this little jaunt and when you look at the size of the galaxy it really is a little jaunt around down town. I would love to see more smaller bubbles popping up I was hopeing the new astroid bases would be the start of that who knows maybe they will. Ive not been to Sag A yet nor Beagle point I dont think Illl get to them on this trip who knows I know there is another mega ship around 40k away from me and from there I coud head into Coloina and on to Sag A...there is no limet to what you can do or goals to set, maybe some have become easier but over all the galaxy is still your osyter.

Edit: sorry for any spelling mistakes, on a chorme book in swedish and it lacks a english spell check:

 

[Vasious]

But what is stopping those that want to explore and take the scenic route, so just that and those that would just jump and honk, and do it just to get from A to Be to have stations to find respite along the way and utilitise what ever they services the offer.

Those that want to explore will be doing that and those that want the lastest way however that is even if just the fastest route with the least jumps their ship can manage.

It is like the route planner itself becomes an offense to you.
Shall we go back to the days when we had none?

 

[WR3ND]

I've addressed some of this stuff already in this thread, so I'll try and refrain from repeating myself too much, but essentially, it has to do with overcoming meaningful challenges and feeling like you've accomplished something noteworthy, not just for the sport of it. Taking the time to get to Colonia is essentially what distinguishes it from other areas in the game that are much closer to the bubble. This is what makes it special and noteworthy.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

But what is stopping those that want to explore and take the scenic route, so just that and those that would just jump and honk, and do it just to get from A to Be to have stations to find respite along the way and utilitise what ever they services the offer.

Precisely because I think there needs to be a consequential barrier, and the only one available for now is time, I'm very much in favour of extra stations along the way - there are some quite long stretches without one on the current route, once you get past Eagle Nebula.

Something which can break the journey up more and provide more structure to it - especially since they tend to place the individual stations somewhere worth looking at in its own right - makes it less daunting to those newer to exploration or travel for whom Palin's 5kLY is a long way, but doesn't make the decision over which bubble to be in less important. They can put a string of stations every 100 LY between Colonia and Sol and there'd be no issue (to stop the Alliance BGS team getting ideas, the stations should be separated by more than the maximum expansion range at least a few times, though)

 

[kofeyh]

But what is stopping those that want to explore and take the scenic route, so just that and those that would just jump and honk, and do it just to get from A to Be to have stations to find respite along the way and utilitise what ever they services the offer.

Because frontier will not do this. Their changes are global. Example is the shift to jump points never putting you between stars; this isn't something people can opt out of. HSL require materials from occupied systems; again, this isn't something we can option out of. Which means trinary systems are no more interesting (or even relevant) than anything else, and HSL continue to be highly redundant because they are now not essentially needed at all, and are gated to occupied systems anyway.

If we're heading somewhere near a station, that's fine, but there are no stations anywhere except the express route to colonia; which is a popular route. So they've already sorted the express transit drivers out (along with neutron jumping, complete with plotting now). If I am anywhere else, however, then it might be 35,000 LY to the nearest station. Meanwhile someone transiting to Colonia, past a string of 10+ stations (the list has probably grown?) is confused as to why this is somehow a problem.

I prefer when frontier offer options, and provide a better experience as a consequence, rather than chase some weird redactive logic that says the less there is to do, or see, or engage with, the better exploration gets. Perhaps this is just a consequence of people wanting to optimise the experience to transit large distances quickly because missions are a thing. That's fine, but if this is done, without consideration of the fact that the universe is huge and there are a lot of places to go, that are nowhere near any station, this tends to fall apart.

Frontier are particularly guilty of changes in a vacuum; in that they will respond to a specific request (to the letter in some cases) which can then go on to break a ton of stuff because folks didn't bother to consider the consequences, and the developer may not have the time to do so either.

 

[WR3ND]

I think you bring up a good point here, kofeyh. It seems like a bit of a tangent, but then it also seems like a symptom of a larger issue, which is addressing and developing the game around the path of least resistance as apposed to a greater whole.

To make an attempt at an exaggerated and perhaps rather poor analogy... People like cake, but having people make people more cake makes people fat, lazy, and bored, instead of hungry, capable hunters and gatherers.

Yeah... I should probably get some sleep.

 

[Pyrobee]

You misunderstand me completely, or are intentionally being pedantic. Anyone is free to go out to Colonia of course, even those who would often be and are called "griefers," PVPs, and the like, and they have, and I congratulate them on their efforts and accomplishments. Either way though, it's nice having goals worthy of bothering to achieve. Making the trip too easy, not just in this case but as a general approach to "progress" within the game, is a missed opportunity for individual and future players in having that thing that is worthy of achieving to them.

This is evident in the thread I was referring to.

You are making out that getting the exploration elite rank was ever hard. It has always been the easiest to get so please stop making out like it's some amazing achievement. Any misunderstanding is in how poorly written your ranty posts have been.

 

[WR3ND]

You are making out that getting the exploration elite rank was ever hard. It has always been the easiest to get so please stop making out like it's some amazing achievement. Any misunderstanding is in how poorly written your ranty posts have been.

I don't think anyone would argue that it's more difficult now than it was previously, which is actually relevant to the point I was trying to make, unlike your assertion that I'm making it out to be "some amazing achievement." If that's the gist of what you're getting from my post, then I think you may have reading comprehension issues to sort out. Good luck.

 

[Aashenfox]

I said it earlier, and I'll say it again. 3 stations along a 22k ly route, does not an 'easy trip' make. This is a huge overreaction.

 

[WR3ND]

I said it earlier, and I'll say it again. 3 stations along a 22k ly route, does not an 'easy trip' make. This is a huge overreaction.

No worries; I heard you the first time. [up]

I think this post kind of sums up my thoughts on that. → https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-ObsidianAnt?p=5893486&viewfull=1#post5893486

Maybe nothing more will come of this than a few extra stations, but speculation by Obsidian Ant and others as well as the desires of some certainly were seeming to imply the potential for more than just a few stations. Essentially, many people seem to want to remove the travel time it takes to get to Colonia, which to me, seems counter productive and misses the point of why Colonia is what it is.

 

[Aashenfox]

No worries; I heard you the first time. [up]

I think this post kind of sums up my thoughts on that. → https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-ObsidianAnt?p=5893486&viewfull=1#post5893486

Maybe nothing more will come of this than a few extra stations, but speculation by Obsidian Ant and others as well as the desires of some certainly were seeming to imply the potential for more than just a few stations. Essentially, many people seem to want to remove the travel time it takes to get to Colonia, which to me, seems counter productive and misses the point of why Colonia is what it is.

Apologies, I genuinely thought the humorous nature of the way I first stated it perhaps led to its significance being ignored. I;ll check out the link in a bit, in the office right now. Cheers!

EDIT: OK, it was a short one, I read it. Yes, I can certainly agree that the direction of the game is toward making things easier, HOWEVER, it's a matter of perspective again. Some of what you might call dumbing down, I might call streamlining to allow me to enjoy and make progress in the game as well as have a relationship with my family. There's a balance to be struck, and as someone who left WoW during Cataclysm, I believe I know when that line is being crossed, and this project (and in fact Elite in general) is not in danger of going there yet.

Also, I hear hints every now and then that the devs would like to make it more difficult too, so I'm not worried about overall direction yet. I think a lot of QoL issues get labelled as 'making hte game too easy', such as the blue mission USSes (previously you had to just search for a target in random USSes, it was insane), some say this was a step too far and trivialised tracking down a mission target. It is in fact, far preferable to the alternative.

 

[WR3ND]

And actually, I kind of hope you're right. Maybe I've just been seeing more in this than there actually is, which would be a bit of a relief.

 

[Aashenfox]

And actually, I kind of hope you're right. Maybe I've just been seeing more in this than there actually is.

I elaborated above, hopefully I can help put your mind at ease.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You can be in Colonia within 2 hours.

 

[CMDR Ofan]

More importantly, if they have shipyards will it be cheaper to do a 3 stage delivery rather than a single delivery of ships to Colonia.

 

[Aashenfox]

You can be in Colonia within 2 hours.

Maybe you can! I always get distracted by shiny things!