And I get that the Ceratosaurus is based off the Ceratosaurus called Rex in JP3 but come on...
My Thoughts After 25 Hours from a JPOG Fan
- Thread starter raptor236
- Start date
I respect your view aswellAnd do not really bother if others think "it is the opposite way, than I think it is".
But I´ve got the feeling there´s a little missunderstanding on the comparsion between JWE and JPOG. You are absolutly right. JPOG is not "far superior to JWE". Of course not. The thing is, that there´re basics in JPOG, that are missing in JWE. It´s like the sims4. The Sims4 was never a bad game, but it has not its fundament complete. There weren´t (at its release) pools, toodlers and a lot of other content every other game before had in it´s base-game. In JWE (over 10 years later since JPOG) you´ve got the same situation. Perhaps you´re interessted in my thoughts on your post so I´ll response to them just in case ;D
1. I totally agree on your argument with the Power management. On the one side. On the other disaster like the hurrican feel much more like a threat in JPOG. Hurricans where deadly in JPOG. In JWE they´re annoying. The animals and the visitors do not die. It´s only purpose seem to be make work and no catastrophe IMO.
2. Your second point about the escapes is true. Escapes are a bigger topic in JWE, which is good. But there´s also a problem with that, because of the AI. Carnivores are robots that kill visitor after visitor, Every animals can break through every kind of wall which is unrealistic, the animals break out, most of the time, because of their population need (at least in my gameplay) which is really frustrating and annoying because if you have low budget for a short time you can´t build more than 1 breedingstation. And if the 1 Raptor breaks out and need to be handle with. After get her to sleep, fix the Wall and get her back in the encloser the next one breaks out. It´s more frustrating than challengeing honestly. Not forget to mention if a visitor dies it has got not really any negative influence in JWE. Okay for five minutes, but than everythings fine again and I´ve got my 5 stars back. In JPOG it feels like a bigger deal, which is much better than in JWE.
3. True. The animations are more complex thanks to new possibilities. But thats not the point. It´s about behavior / AI. JPOG didn´t have that much more of animal behavior. That´s right and now comes the holy "but" Im afraid. But the "illusion" of real life is better in JPOG. Of course sleep does not effect the gameplay. And of course it is not interessting to watch a sleeping animal or an animal which do its toilett. That´s not point here
The point is, and perhaps you will agree after all, that´s life. Life is full of such details and non interessting things. But they´re part of it. A jurassic Park game is primaly about the animals. And they do not feel alive in JWE at all. In JPOG the illusion is bigger, because even the small things are shown. They feel more alive. They interact with eachother on a more realistic way. Just think about the "socialize" behavior of every "herding" animal in JWE. My Struthiomimus, Corythosaurus and even the Dilophosaurus are all standing in a circle and stare at eachother and "talk?". On the other side in JPOG they play, they walk much longer ways etc. In JWE they are all standing as close to the feeder as possible.
4. Okay that´s a question of taste. I wouldn´t mindt of the 5 death as well, but there´re soooo small. That´s the only thing bothering me on that.
5. Well I don´t know what to say on this one. I want realism as well, but realism does not end to me on how the dinosaur look. But to be honest my english isn´t really good. It could be possible I missunderstood you here. [noob]
I get what your meaning and you are right and people need to understand that if you think this game is perfect it will never change... and it will never be perfect cos it certainly isn’t right now not even close, the animations require more illusions of life we need more animations
Have you seen these, they’ve been photoshopped but why can’t they add something like this? Just some fan service these and a green T-Rex skin would be amazing!
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/433997-Fan-made-TLW-raptor-skin
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/433997-Fan-made-TLW-raptor-skin
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Some JPOG dinos looked pretty awful, but the JPOG carcharodontosaurids (Acrocanthosaurus & Carcharodontosaurus) were excellent designs, clearly modelled by someone with a basic understanding of theropod anatomy. Even unmodded, they still look reasonable today.
They need to return along with the others that are missing from the JPOG roster
They need to add two new comfort style atributes one for herbivores, one for carnivores
Carnivores is easier to explain, they need hunting under there comfort stat hunting goats sates this need but at the same time it stop there ridiculous blood lust killing sprees as they only require to hunt like within 10% of the red line.
Herbivores would have Enriched food under their comfort, this can only be raised by eating from a feeder as long as this is above 10% of the red line they can gain food from grazing the grass or for sauropods browsing the trees...
Something like this has to be added at some point as atm it’s near impossible to handle the ridiculous carnivore killing sprees if you want to have a free wildlife reserve style park it’s impossible
Carnivores is easier to explain, they need hunting under there comfort stat hunting goats sates this need but at the same time it stop there ridiculous blood lust killing sprees as they only require to hunt like within 10% of the red line.
Herbivores would have Enriched food under their comfort, this can only be raised by eating from a feeder as long as this is above 10% of the red line they can gain food from grazing the grass or for sauropods browsing the trees...
Something like this has to be added at some point as atm it’s near impossible to handle the ridiculous carnivore killing sprees if you want to have a free wildlife reserve style park it’s impossible
I have to disagree on this point. The power management isn't complex at all. If you're low, you either build a new power station, or stack upgrades. That isn't complexity.
And power outages (in my experiences in game) never screwed me over or hamstrung my park - they make me sigh in frustration while I wait for a timer to tick down for some buildings to return to functionality. Sometimes park rating would drop, but within a few minutes, returns right back where it was.
An idea I have (and this is straight off the top of my head) is different fuels for power plants - each with benefits and hindrances that you have to balance up and see which suits. Coal, Gas, Oil, Wind, Tidal/Wave/Hydroelectric, Solar, Nuclear, Geothermal, etc.
Agree. i haven't got the game yet as I went with pre-ordering the physical edition. However, I have kept up to date with people's thoughts on the game and sadly, many share the same expression.
Obviously I want to try the game out for myself before making my own conclusions as I'm a massive dinosaur/JP fan, but these reviews are seriously making me reconsider my pre-order to the point of where I'm just thinking of cancelling and buying later on when Frontier have had more time to work on it.
Frontier listen to the OP.
While I feel that the OP does cover some things that the game could do better, I feel that he really fails to hit on one of the major flaws of this game, and that's the AI and behavior of the dinosaurs. Just to list some of the glaring issues...
-Combat between two dinosaurs with the same genetic mods is 100% identical.
-Carnivores chase down and kill everything in sight.
-Dinosaurs in their uncomfortable zone instead run to park pathways and kill people there instead of trying to get to a comfortable place or becoming irritable.
-Dinosaurs have such a lacking in preference of conditions that they almost seem like reskins of the same thing.
-Dinosaurs have circular territories where they can detect everything inside and are or are not comfortable instead of simply being comfortable based on what's in their cage.
-A Struthiomimus is the same population as a Brachiosaurus. (not totally sure that this is true, though. If it's not, MB)
-Herbivores can't graze even though they literally walk around playing a grazing animation.
-Instead of running away from carnivores, herbivores stand there and let them kill them. They don't even notice them after getting roared at.
-Dinosaurs that do manage to notice large carnivores instead run in circles around the large carnivore. Not really sure why this is.
And the thing is, is that while this is a lot of stuff, most of this stuff isn't too impossible to fix. Right now, the dinosaurs seem more like robots than real dinosaurs. Fixing some of these things mentioned above should be the primary concern, not fixing the million little things that might make the game a little bit more fun to play. Having real dinosaurs in a dinosaur park is critical. And right now, they just don't feel real.
-Combat between two dinosaurs with the same genetic mods is 100% identical.
-Carnivores chase down and kill everything in sight.
-Dinosaurs in their uncomfortable zone instead run to park pathways and kill people there instead of trying to get to a comfortable place or becoming irritable.
-Dinosaurs have such a lacking in preference of conditions that they almost seem like reskins of the same thing.
-Dinosaurs have circular territories where they can detect everything inside and are or are not comfortable instead of simply being comfortable based on what's in their cage.
-A Struthiomimus is the same population as a Brachiosaurus. (not totally sure that this is true, though. If it's not, MB)
-Herbivores can't graze even though they literally walk around playing a grazing animation.
-Instead of running away from carnivores, herbivores stand there and let them kill them. They don't even notice them after getting roared at.
-Dinosaurs that do manage to notice large carnivores instead run in circles around the large carnivore. Not really sure why this is.
And the thing is, is that while this is a lot of stuff, most of this stuff isn't too impossible to fix. Right now, the dinosaurs seem more like robots than real dinosaurs. Fixing some of these things mentioned above should be the primary concern, not fixing the million little things that might make the game a little bit more fun to play. Having real dinosaurs in a dinosaur park is critical. And right now, they just don't feel real.
The most irritating thing about a lot of the things missing from the game is that these features were PRESENT IN JPOG. Retiring rampaging dinosaurs was an option, terrain modification that actually work, maps that could actually fit every species in the game at once (even with mods that double the number of dinosaur species) were all in JPOG. I can understand why flying and aquatic species are going to have to wait for DLC, but let's be honest both map size and dinosaur behavior was a LOT better in JPOG. Hell, I might go play JPOG instead, at least until some things are fixed.
I respect your view aswell
But I´ve got the feeling there´s a little missunderstanding on the comparsion between JWE and JPOG. You are absolutly right. JPOG is not "far superior to JWE". Of course not. The thing is, that there´re basics in JPOG, that are missing in JWE. It´s like the sims4. The Sims4 was never a bad game, but it has not its fundament complete. There weren´t (at its release) pools, toodlers and a lot of other content every other game before had in it´s base-game. In JWE (over 10 years later since JPOG) you´ve got the same situation. Perhaps you´re interessted in my thoughts on your post so I´ll response to them just in case ;D
1. I totally agree on your argument with the Power management. On the one side. On the other disaster like the hurrican feel much more like a threat in JPOG. Hurricans where deadly in JPOG. In JWE they´re annoying. The animals and the visitors do not die. It´s only purpose seem to be make work and no catastrophe IMO.
2. Your second point about the escapes is true. Escapes are a bigger topic in JWE, which is good. But there´s also a problem with that, because of the AI. Carnivores are robots that kill visitor after visitor, Every animals can break through every kind of wall which is unrealistic, the animals break out, most of the time, because of their population need (at least in my gameplay) which is really frustrating and annoying because if you have low budget for a short time you can´t build more than 1 breedingstation. And if the 1 Raptor breaks out and need to be handle with. After get her to sleep, fix the Wall and get her back in the encloser the next one breaks out. It´s more frustrating than challengeing honestly. Not forget to mention if a visitor dies it has got not really any negative influence in JWE. Okay for five minutes, but than everythings fine again and I´ve got my 5 stars back. In JPOG it feels like a bigger deal, which is much better than in JWE.
3. True. The animations are more complex thanks to new possibilities. But thats not the point. It´s about behavior / AI. JPOG didn´t have that much more of animal behavior. That´s right and now comes the holy "but" Im afraid. But the "illusion" of real life is better in JPOG. Of course sleep does not effect the gameplay. And of course it is not interessting to watch a sleeping animal or an animal which do its toilett. That´s not point here
The point is, and perhaps you will agree after all, that´s life. Life is full of such details and non interessting things. But they´re part of it. A jurassic Park game is primaly about the animals. And they do not feel alive in JWE at all. In JPOG the illusion is bigger, because even the small things are shown. They feel more alive. They interact with eachother on a more realistic way. Just think about the "socialize" behavior of every "herding" animal in JWE. My Struthiomimus, Corythosaurus and even the Dilophosaurus are all standing in a circle and stare at eachother and "talk?". On the other side in JPOG they play, they walk much longer ways etc. In JWE they are all standing as close to the feeder as possible.
4. Okay that´s a question of taste. I wouldn´t mindt of the 5 death as well, but there´re soooo small. That´s the only thing bothering me on that.
5. Well I don´t know what to say on this one. I want realism as well, but realism does not end to me on how the dinosaur look. But to be honest my english isn´t really good. It could be possible I missunderstood you here. [noob]
Sorry it was really late when I wrote this response and it may sound harsher than it's meant.
1. To be honest I haven't seen a Twister yet in the game so I can't fairly judge it. But I have to agree with you about twisters being absolutely deadly in JPOG. I but I'm not sure if I could handle JPOG style twisters in JWE, it is already very stressful at times (in JWE).
2. I agree on all points here, while Dinosaur breakouts are a bigger topic here, they are mostly annoying. But still I think the Dinosaurs feel more deadly here, but you are right they shouldn't just go on a mindless killing spree.
3. I see what you mean. Of course if JWE had sleeping and poop it would give the animals more life, it's just I don't miss it that much. To be honest so far I was so occupied with managing my park, that I didn't have much time to look at my animals at all, which is a shame, because I think they are very beutiful.
4. It's not that I have never said: "Why can't I build here, goddamit!" ^^ I just think the Islands in JWE have more character
5. I'm from germany so my English isn't perfect at all. What I wanted to say was that I'm happy to see at least a select few dinosaurs looking fairly realistic (for example: Edmontosaurus, Metriacanthosaurus, Giganotosaurus and Suchomimus). I like that the non movie Carnivores have no pronated wrists and that they really tried to make some dinosaurs look realistic.
Thanl you for the friendly reply.
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I jusat meant some aesthetics are realistic. The Giganotosaurus looks a lot like some serious scientific depictions. But this game is based on Jurassic Lore, so the T.rex is bigger than Sue (which is possible after all) and Spinosaurus is based on the JP/// Spino and has the same size as the Spino in the movie which is fine to me. At the moment scientists still debate if the Giganotosaurus is bigger than the T.rex. Since the T.rex in JP Lore is a huge monster it is ok to me that it is smaller (coming from someone how loves carchrodontosaurids, they are my favourite dinosaurs).
You hit my weakspot, the Carcharodontosaurs was my favourite in JPOG and yes it looked good that is true. But what about the Kentrosaurus or the Styracosaurs. Some Models in JPOG looked like they had less love put into them. You could almost say they looked like the game was rushed to it's release (don't take this seriou, I was being sarcastic ok?)
JPOG is not a good game or in any way better than this. Take your nostalgia glasses off.
JPOG had AI that could have complex interactions with each other.... if JPOG was buffed up and rebuilt from the ground up containing all the things the original had JWE would have nothing on it, i’ll Give you 2 examples.
JPOG: Raptors attack and get hurt by electric fence, once the fence is sufficiently damaged they climb out.
JWE: raptors head butt their way out of electrified reinforced concrete walls.
JPOG: carnivores have a need to hunt, they will only hunt if they need to or if they’re hungry.
JWE: carnivores go on mass killing sprees killing every herbivore around them.
Not difficult to see which one is more complex or better...
I have no nostalgia glasses on. Not really. I enjoyed JPOG as a child and also as an adult right now, but I never thought it would be the "best" game or something.
For it´s time it was okay and it is still enjoyable to this day. The whole discussion here isn´t really about which is better in its core. It´s about JWE´s fundament. And because we only have got 2 real videogames we can compare to JWE (ZT2 & JPOG) we´re talking about that. That´s what´s all about here.
On the other hand I have to tell you that JPOG "was" a good game 15 years ago. Today it is old, but as I mentioned before it´s the only thing close enough to compare JWE with. And at this moment I really do think JPOG is the more enjoyable game. No nostalgia. I´ve got reasonable arguments for this point of view.
If you do not agree it´s absolutly okay and also good you are saying it outload.
I would like to hear why are you saying this honestly. Why do you tell us to "take our nostalgia glasses off" and not "why do you think these fundaments we see missing in JWE are not worth the discussion?" (If I interpret your post right). Please feel free to discuss with us
BTW @ T.Rex I am from the same country like you, friend! And I also do not understand everything correctly what other say in english to me as well or how my english sounds to others. So I try to be as careful as I can to interpret. Next time maybe we can discuss in a language we both speak better to have things more clear
greetings
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It certainly would be nice to see a 'hunt' stat introduced or at the very least carnivores only hunting when hungry. Would help alot I would think.
paleostudent
Banned
Its interesting to me to see how much debate and interest my review has stimulated ^^. At the end of the day i think debate and discussion is really healthy for any game especially one that may end up changing in the future. Even if some of the discussion has become heated LOL.
And i certainly agree with the above posts that Carnivores should have some sort of hunting requirement, other wise the fact that goats run around becomes meaningless (Yet another example of the game lacking depth)
I started on Isla Sorna today and i have to say the Science mission sucks balls
And i certainly agree with the above posts that Carnivores should have some sort of hunting requirement, other wise the fact that goats run around becomes meaningless (Yet another example of the game lacking depth)
I started on Isla Sorna today and i have to say the Science mission sucks balls
and thanks dude ^^