Not just the First Discovered tags but the BGS as well which is probably the biggest set of data that gets stored (and processed) on Frontier servers.
Myth busting on Stellar Forge and the generation of everything from stars to rocks.
- Thread starter Alec Turner
- Start date
- Status
This was a cool read I dont understand much of it but cool non the less thanks
Frontier can't realistically change the structure of the galaxy (that is, the algorithm that tells whether you'll find a planet/star of this type at this place and time or the seed plugged into the algorithm), but they most certainly can change the algo dealing with the finer layer of details, like planetary surfaces.
Hey Alec. I don't think you should concern yourself too much with this: there are prolly upwards of 100k? stations and who knows how many surface installations. It's unthinkable that Frontier could have vetted each and every single one (I'm fairly sure the vast majority were simply randomly generated, with some basic sanity checks to deal with the outliers), and yet there aren't many examples of weirdly situated bases, so I think the flattening algo is quite robust. Maybe it's even able to move installations around a bit (who's going to notice anyway) if it can't make the terrain fit.
Last edited:
Did you watch all of the Dr Ross stellar forge video?
no not yet one day off a week I have a large to do list but I did bookmark it o7
NMS uses something similar for its ships (or did -- I haven't messed with it in a while); it builds the entire vessel off of hexidecimal 'seeds' that assemble a selection of 'modules' into a 'ship'. Elite's use of such systems leads to beautiful and consistent solar systems and terrestrial surfaces; NMS's results in semi-randomized, largely repetitive, non-customizable and often bizarre vessels. I'll give the point to Frontier on this one.
Re: system names, aside from the hand placed ones (of which there are many) I believe these are essentialy some version of the galactic coordinate that's simply been run through an algorithm to turn it into some vaguely pronounceable (or at least credible) string of letters and numbers. There's MUCH more on this side of things in the brilliant research thread from Jackie SIlver and Esvandiary which can be found over here: rv-sonnenkreis-decoding-universal-cartographics
Yeah, I was going to use Isherwood Orbital (I 'think' that's right) which orbited at a toasty close distance to a star and it vanished.
Well actually that stuff I said about terrain flattening came from them during my conversation so it did sound to me as if there was a bit of a problem with terrain changing dramatically underneath the position of existing surface bases. How about this for a theory (wish I'd asked this). Since the surface of planets is deterministic based on the galactic position and the Stellar Forge algorithm, and since they have landing AI ship control software which allows a recalled ship to find a landing spot, it isn't inconceivable to think that, although planetary settlement sites weren't individually hand placed by humans at FD, they may have been "scouted" out by simply letting a computer program spend hours (days? weeks?) search for them automatically. Perhaps their concerns lie in the thought of having to do this again ... as well as in the simple undesireable idea that a great many settlements could end up moving.
Yeah, the way it works, proc. gen. system names are generated from two things:
1. the galactic position of the system
2. its "mass code", which you can count as the total mass of the system - coming from the zero age mass of its main star.
So we know that the system's seed at the very least contains the name of the system (proof being the examples I wrote earlier), and it's reasonable to suspect that it might simply be generated from the system name entirely. (But I'm not aware of there being any proof of this. Still, it is the simplest case. Something also comes to my mind about system IDs, but I can't seem to find that right now.) The system name, in turn, is generated from the two things above. So yes, the galactic position is most of it, but not all; the mass code in there is a single letter.
So are the locations of planetary bases (longitude and latitude) procedurally generated? What about systems with Guardian structures - were they hand-picked, or procedural? I know POIs are now procedural, which unfortunately broke a bunch of surface tourist beacons...
And on this note, I wish the various "scan mission" outposts were procedural and not just RNG. I really dislike the "there one minute, gone the next" mechanic. This should also apply to ship wrecks and even downed satellites IMO. I believe harvestable rocks are also random, whereas harvestable POIs are procgen..
Anyway, that's the scoop on all this, Alex?
And on this note, I wish the various "scan mission" outposts were procedural and not just RNG. I really dislike the "there one minute, gone the next" mechanic. This should also apply to ship wrecks and even downed satellites IMO. I believe harvestable rocks are also random, whereas harvestable POIs are procgen..
Anyway, that's the scoop on all this, Alex?
I think sadly at this point in the conversation my 4th Wild Berry Rekorderlig started to kick in and I became far more interested in Steve Kirby's off-piste snowboarding adventures than in Dav's fascinating incites into the world of procedural generation.
A fascinating post, Alec. It is really hard to accept it intuitively, even though I know it is true ! 
So essentially, if you (somehow) managed to drop in to a "null" space, between systems, it'd still use your coordinates and magic up a system?
That'll explain why we can't supercruise to the next system.
We'd be sprouting systems every few seconds until the galaxy caves in on itself.
That'll explain why we can't supercruise to the next system.
We'd be sprouting systems every few seconds until the galaxy caves in on itself.
Last edited:
You're always in a system, the same way you're always in a ship (or SRV) - there's no way to be in none. The only way to change to a different system is to FSD jump there. If you don't, the game will count you as being in your original system, which is why flying to another star in supercruise won't put you there.
The coordinates and such mentioned before are about the system's coordinates, not your character's in-system position.
Yeah, perhaps my use of precise floating point coordinates is misleading. I think it's probably better to think of the galaxy as billions of numbered cubes small enough to never contain more than one system and the cube number you've just jumped into as the seed. Flying in supercruise is constantly changing your theoretical galactic coordinates but only jumping to another system triggers SF with a new seed.
Taking a seed and running it through algo wa show they fit Elite into 48K back then. In that aspect ED is in full tradition of Elite.
- Status