Astronomy / Space NASA changing names of planets and other heavenly bodies.

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Probably a good idea to rename the Eskimo Nebula. It's not a matter of whether one group of people is or isn't offended; or whether the word Eskimo is inherently objectively wrong, but whether it's really defensible to refer to an astronomical entity as an ethnic caricature in the first place. Like if we had a Chinaman Nebula which looked like a sphere with a wide-based triangle above it, we could argue all day about exactly how right or wrong the word is all by itself, but this would be a distraction from the fact that what's really at issue is the use of a cartoonified stereotype of an ethnicity.
We recently had the idea, pushed by the SJW crowd, that actors in films (or TV or stage productions) had to be from the ethnic background that the character was from. So a Chinese character had to now be played by a Chinese actor (it should be noted here, "actor" is referring to both genders) and so on. I quickly pointed out, they'd better hurry up and find real aliens to play aliens in films, because it shows the stupidity of the idea.

So now we're renaming astronomical bodies "in case it offends someone". I take it they're going to rename the banana nebula in case it upsets bananas.
 
We recently had the idea, pushed by the SJW crowd, that actors in films (or TV or stage productions) had to be from the ethnic background that the character was from. So a Chinese character had to now be played by a Chinese actor (it should be noted here, "actor" is referring to both genders) and so on. I quickly pointed out, they'd better hurry up and find real aliens to play aliens in films, because it shows the stupidity of the idea.

So now we're renaming astronomical bodies "in case it offends someone". I take it they're going to rename the banana nebula in case it upsets bananas.

When you combine taking contrived offence at something trivial with condemning others for taking contrived offence at something trivial you are only highlighting your own hypocrisy.

Acceptable language and behavior in societies evolves over time if you refuse to keep up you risk being shunned which is how societies have always enforced compliance.
 

Deleted member 257907

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Acceptable language and behavior in societies evolves over time if you refuse to keep up you risk being shunned which is how societies have always enforced compliance.

I don't mind as much getting piled on by people with opposing opinion what really gets me is trying to navigate around all the (shadow)banning algorithms. Like say a word the computer doesnt like and your post will be hidden no discussion can take place and nobody learns anything about the other sides opinion.
(I'm glad these forums offer great freedom for discussion)
 
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I like the names Eskimo Nebula, Sombrero Nebula and Witch Head Nebula these are stereotypical thus easily recognizable names that children and anyone looking at space can understand not just space nerds saying hey thats NGC 2392 or look at those NGC 4567 and NGC 4568.
I think the point with Eskimo Nebula, though, is that you shouldn't look at a shape like that and think "this is what an Eskimo looks like." And going forward, children aren't going to be shown cartoons of furry-hooded little people and told "this is an Eskimo," just like we don't circulate red-lipped blackfaced clown cartoons, either, even though children loved them in their day and many formed attachments to those images without knowingly connecting them to anything racial at all. So if you had a "Pickaninny Nebula" now, most people wouldn't even know what that was supposed to refer to, and realistically "Eskimo" is going to be like that going forward which means in addition to being hurtful it's not going to be helpful from an identification standpoint.

Again it's like any other iconic ethnic/racial caricature - when you distill an entire people down to a cartoonish surface characteristic, you might not be doing it with ill intent but you're enshrining something that is harmful, and if you perpetuate that cultural iconography, you end up participating in that harm. If the Sombrero Nebula were called the Beaner Nebula or even just the Mexican Nebula, this would be a problem, too.

I don't think this is the kind of problem which carries an equal amount of weight at all levels and in all places, but an institution like NASA, which due to the nature of its work, kind of ends up representing all of humanity regardless of national origin, probably ought to avoid enshrining racial and ethnic caricatures in the very stars themselves.
 

Deleted member 257907

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Again it's like any other iconic ethnic/racial caricature - when you distill an entire people down to a cartoonish surface characteristic, you might not be doing it with ill intent but you're enshrining something that is harmful, and if you perpetuate that cultural iconography, you end up participating in that harm. If the Sombrero Nebula were called the Beaner Nebula or even just the Mexican Nebula, this would be a problem, too.

Thank you for discussing this topic.
I think it's a difficult topic I do see your point but it's hard to concede to terms like cartoonish surface characteristic.
Are we allowed to attach characteristics to the word Eskimo, if not then the word has no meaning.
So then who decides which characteristics are cartoonish or subsurface and which are appropriate?
You could say most Eskimo live in a certain region and wear certain clothes but it wouldnt be all of them off course but still can you attach the characteristic to the word or not?
It's unclear to me exactly when it becomes harmful.
 
Thank you for discussing this topic.
I think it's a difficult topic I do see your point but it's hard to concede to terms like cartoonish surface characteristic.
Are we allowed to attach characteristics to the word Eskimo, if not then the word has no meaning.
So then who decides which characteristics are cartoonish or subsurface and which are appropriate?
You could say most Eskimo live in a certain region and wear certain clothes but it wouldnt be all of them off course but still can you attach the characteristic to the word or not?
It's unclear to me exactly when it becomes harmful.

Who decides that? I guess the people you attach that word as label to. When someone says Eskimo they're usually meaning the Inuit, else a lot of northern people would be Eskimos too. :p
 

Deleted member 257907

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Who decides that? I guess the people you attach that word as label to. When someone says Eskimo they're usually meaning the Inuit, else a lot of northern people would be Eskimos too. :p

But then narcissist, dictator, murderer whatever bad word label you can think of should have it's characteristics described by the people that would get that label attached to them.
It doesnt make sense.

By who get's to decide I mean what criteria in Kaocraft's opinion should be used for determining the appropriate characteristics of a word and are not harmful.
 
But then narcissist, dictator, murderer whatever bad word label you can think of should have it's characteristics described by the people that would get that label attached to them.
It doesnt make sense.

Those words are not derogatory and have a fixed definition of whom they get applied to. A Person is not a dictator, murderer or narcissist because they belong to a particular ethnic group, they are because they fit the defintion of that word and are thus correctly characterized by it. Plus I'm fairly certain that calling someone in public a murderer if they aren't can get you in pretty hot water. Same goes for calling someone a narcissist in public.

If someone would call me whitey, I'd probably not be offended, because, well I am pretty white, but I won't like it either. Iirc, Eskimo for example means something akin to "raw flesh eater" in whatever language the inuit speak. Not a particularly nice word to address an entire group.
 
Eskimo for example means something akin to "raw flesh eater" in whatever language the inuit speak.

'Eskimo' is not an Inuit word and does not mean raw flesh eater. It comes from one of the Algonquin languages and means something like 'people who use snow shoes'. It's just an exonym given them by some other native Americans, and it's literal meaning is not offensive at all. There are many ethnic groups worldwide whose name in their own language differs from what they are called in other languages. I'm Magyar, for instance, but you'd call me Hungarian, in German it's Ungarisch, Russian speaking people think I'm Vengersky.
How offensive, lol.
 
'Eskimo' is not an Inuit word and does not mean raw flesh eater. It comes from one of the Algonquin languages and means something like 'people who use snow shoes'. It's just an exonym given them by some other native Americans, and it's literal meaning is not offensive at all. There are many ethnic groups worldwide whose name in their own language differs from what they are called in other languages. I'm Magyar, for instance, but you'd call me Hungarian, in German it's Ungarisch, Russian speaking people think I'm Vengersky.
How offensive, lol.

Oh wow, I didn't know that, but you're right on that part.

Nonetheless my point doesn't change:

In Canada and Greenland, the term "Eskimo" is predominantly seen as offensive or "non-preferred", and has been widely replaced by the term "Inuit" or terms specific to a particular group or community.


This hasn't really something to do with being offensive and more with basic respect of not addressing people or groups in a way they don't want to be addressed in.
 
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