Nav Beacon Discussion - How to make Beacons relevant and engaging!

[Ydiss]

Seems like a whole lot of effort just to force something to make sense, when it doesn't.

Just do away with them. And add more meaningful location content that does make sense, elsewhere.

There's a reason FD made them and there's a reason they changed it so we don't jump to them. You're not likely going to convince them to reverse that.

 

[KaizoMK]

How could one system authority cause *all* NPCs in the system (even those not under their control) to not interdict other players?

If put in place, it would give players who have done "something" at the Nav Beacon a significant advantage over players who didn't as they would not need to worry about NPC interdictions and could focus on interdicting other players....

For example, what actually happens is that security monitors traffic coming in and out of the system - those who drop at the beacon and undergo a police scan are tagged by the police - it'd be a waste to scan someone multiple times after all. This doesn't make them immune to the law - interdiction is still met with a fine (and maybe ought to alert authorities depending on "crimes against me" settings). Not dropping to the beacon does not afford you the clearance, and so you may still be interdicted by police.

Dropping at a beacon doesn't give you law immunity.

 

[Robert Maynard]

For example, what actually happens is that security monitors traffic coming in and out of the system - those who drop at the beacon and undergo a police scan are tagged by the police - it'd be a waste to scan someone multiple times after all. This doesn't make them immune to the law - interdiction is still met with a fine (and maybe ought to alert authorities depending on "crimes against me" settings). Not dropping to the beacon does not afford you the clearance, and so you may still be interdicted by police.

Dropping at a beacon doesn't give you law immunity.

From what you wrote it seemed that players who stopped at the Nav Beacon would not be interdicted by *any* NPCs. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[wstephenson]

I don't see why both can't co-exist. Each would have risks and benefits. I think Sandro is 100% wrong on this.

Sandro was referring to using them as a mandatory chokepoint, not to having microjumps. I would like to have some limited microjumps for very large systems, but only between star-sized masses.

Seems like a whole lot of effort just to force something to make sense, when it doesn't.

Just do away with them. And add more meaningful location content that does make sense, elsewhere.

There's a reason FD made them and there's a reason they changed it so we don't jump to them. You're not likely going to convince them to reverse that.

I'm guessing the Nav Beacon assets were already done for the initial fast-travel design, and they thought it would be a shame not to have them in the game.

 

[Edith_The_Hutt]

I'm guessing the Nav Beacon assets were already done for the initial fast-travel design, and they thought it would be a shame not to have them in the game.

Also: Once you've already got all the assets and the positions written into the stellar forge it's easier to have the beacons in from the start with minimal utility which you can build on later rather than have them all suddenly show up from nowhere one day when you have a better use for them.

I figured this thread was all for discussing what that better use could be.

 

[Bacalao]

I figured this thread was all for discussing what that better use could be.

So long as you agree with the OP's assertion that we need to be forced to drop out at them. The justification is unimportant and alternatives that simply incentivize and give nav beacons purpose are dismissed out of hand.

 

[KaizoMK]

So I updated the OP again - it's pretty clear that forcing players to drop at the beacon isn't a good implementation. However, it should be a relevant choice, and I'd like to discuss refining the use of a nav beacon to the end that it's a choice you should consider every time you're entering a system.

I'm honestly sick of having to correct someone every time they shoot down the idea "because forced decisions are bad", and I realize that the OP did say that everywhere. Once I get a little more time to organize it better I shall.

 

[Edith_The_Hutt]

I'm very much in favour of further uses of nav beacons which encourage them to become player gathering areas similar to how they're currently NPC gathering areas. I'm also in favour of mechanics which funnel players through NPC gathering areas and increase NPC-player interaction outside stations or interdictions. I don't like the idea of forcing players to stop at beacons as this sounds like an addition to the game which makes my journeys more tedious and takes away some of the freedom I'm currently enjoying in the game.

I want to be encouraged to use nav beacons and I want them to be a risk balanced with a reward (with pirates and compromised beacons being a hazard to avoid or escape and something being a good enough reason to risk visiting them anyway). Asking players to balance risk and reward adds choice and agency to the game and makes it more fun IMHO.

----

Anywho, in the hope of perhaps taking a more positive direction than arguing in circles about something we seem to be in agreement about:

So far the ideas mentioned for making beacons more appealing that have been mentioned seem to be:
- Allow players to gather planetary and trade data for the current system from the nav beacon rather than having to scan every body or visit distant stations
- Allow players to pay tolls or registration fees to the local system factions to avoid excessive interdiction in those systems
- As a meeting point in systems for missions rather than dropping from supercruise on a "Follow my wake" message
- As interstellar cargo transfer points outside of stations
- As a Frame-shift boosting point to allow for longer inter-system jumps (at either the end and/or beginning of a journey)
- As a micro-jump point to get to distant stations or stellar bodies inside a system
- As a point to refuel/restock from large tanker vessels or NPC fuel rats.
- As a point to jump to/from at reduced fuel cost or spool-up time
- As a place with speed cameras and HMRC access so we can do our tax returns (I think this was a sarcastic suggestion, but I've been on these forums way too long to make too many assumptions about the player-base )

Did I miss any or does anyone want to expand or comment on that list?

 

[Zeta Legion]

I'm very much in favour of further uses of nav beacons which encourage them to become player gathering areas similar to how they're currently NPC gathering areas. I'm also in favour of mechanics which funnel players through NPC gathering areas and increase NPC-player interaction outside stations or interdictions. I don't like the idea of forcing players to stop at beacons as this sounds like an addition to the game which makes my journeys more tedious and takes away some of the freedom I'm currently enjoying in the game.

I want to be encouraged to use nav beacons and I want them to be a risk balanced with a reward (with pirates and compromised beacons being a hazard to avoid or escape and something being a good enough reason to risk visiting them anyway). Asking players to balance risk and reward adds choice and agency to the game and makes it more fun IMHO.

----

Anywho, in the hope of perhaps taking a more positive direction than arguing in circles about something we seem to be in agreement about:

So far the ideas mentioned for making beacons more appealing that have been mentioned seem to be:
- Allow players to gather planetary and trade data for the current system from the nav beacon rather than having to scan every body or visit distant stations
- Allow players to pay tolls or registration fees to the local system factions to avoid excessive interdiction in those systems
- As a meeting point in systems for missions rather than dropping from supercruise on a "Follow my wake" message
- As interstellar cargo transfer points outside of stations
- As a Frame-shift boosting point to allow for longer inter-system jumps (at either the end and/or beginning of a journey)
- As a micro-jump point to get to distant stations or stellar bodies inside a system
- As a point to refuel/restock from large tanker vessels or NPC fuel rats.
- As a point to jump to/from at reduced fuel cost or spool-up time
- As a place with speed cameras and HMRC access so we can do our tax returns (I think this was a sarcastic suggestion, but I've been on these forums way too long to make too many assumptions about the player-base )

Did I miss any or does anyone want to expand or comment on that list?

How about making them a spawn point for ships that represent the state of the system?

During BOOM, have MASSIVE trade barges and/or cruise ships. Have large numbers of immigrants heading in-system.

During WAR/CIVIL WAR, have battleships from the controlling faction occupy the Nav, with military patrols replacing standard police. Add streams of refugees fleeing the system.

During FAMINE or some other economic downturn, have refugees loiter near the beacon, with beat-up junk barges and such packed with vagrants.

Maybe even add special missions from pirates to raid the cruise ships/trade barges for slaves/hostages/loot, military missions to destroy the flagship of the fleet at the beacon, and charity missions to deliver food/medicines to refugee ships?

 

[VR CobraCommander]

I agree that nav beacons currently serve no purpose, and it would be better to make use of them or just get rid of them.

However, I would really object to any idea that forced players to visit them or drop out of SC at these beacons.

Players should have a reason to visit them, and should only be on a voluntary basis.

I think the best use for the nav beacons would be to provide players with system information, commodity market info, outfitting and shipyard info.
Whether this data was provided for free or charged for doesn't really bother me either way.
But if you were looking for a specific type of commodity or a certain ship module then getting that data just after jumping into a system could save you a lot of time, rather than fruitlessly spending 30 or 40 minutes or even more searching each station or outpost in that system.

Using the nav beacon as a meeting point through missions is also a good idea.

 

[cmdr underhill]

I don't necessarily think they need to remove beacons if nothing happens near them. They can still be "broadcasting nav data" for the stations in the local system. Or FD could do any number of the voluntary suggestions in this thread.

I do think the bounty hunting at nav beacons is immersion breaking and ridiculous, though.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Sandro was referring to using them as a mandatory chokepoint, not to having microjumps. I would like to have some limited microjumps for very large systems, but only between star-sized masses.

Technically speaking, would it not be logical to allow jumps as long as the target star is more than 1 light year away?

I mean, it's light years the jump engine is designed for so even though it is within the same system one could count it as two systems baked into one.

-First you jump to the primary star
-Then you choose the secondary star and activate Frameshift as if you would be jumping to another system.

 

[Janichsan]

Technically speaking, would it not be logical to allow jumps as long as the target star is more than 1 light year away?

I mean, it's light years the jump engine is designed for so even though it is within the same system one could count it as two systems baked into one.

There are no systems where the secondary star is one light-year away.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

There are no systems where the secondary star is one light-year away.

Hmm...Good point, I was thinking there was a few but it's more like 220K Light SECONDS.

So, ye, micro jumps would be nice, at least if there is some kind of minimum distance.

Alpha Centauri is a good example where it is needed since it is more or less ONLY a time sink.

All we need is the requirement for Mass lock to stay in effect when making in-system "skips"

 

[KaizoMK]

All good ideas - meeting place, merchant area, micro jumps to stars. I am a fan of the idea that Hutton should still take 90 minutes or whatever, haha.