Navigation Computer needed ?

[SatansMittens]

Was discussed in depth during alpha/beta... cant see it ever happening infact the docking computer was only added as a blast from the 80's - which is why even that splatters you into the station walls every so often ( as the original did )! Route planner is plenty enough, in the words of the developers - fly your ship you lazy btards!

Pointing and pushing "j" hundreds of times is not flying

 

[veryinky]

Route planner is plenty enough, in the words of the developers - fly your ship you lazy btards!

They did not say that and I'm sorry that you appear to be confusing your own imagination with reality on this issue. I will point out that they included navigation computers in Elite 2, Elite First Encounters. Here is an excerpt from the manual as you appear to be unfamiliar with the game's history:

Your ship has three basic modes of flight: Autopilot, Manual and Engines

Off which can be selected by using the Flight Control icons F7 in View mode. The Autopilot is by far the easiest way to control your craft but does not give you a sense of achievement. Manual flight may take some getting used to, but is more rewarding. Flying with engines off does not get you very far, but has some advantages as you will see.

THE AUTOPILOT

This most useful device, although not usually fitted as standard, has been included with your Eagle. It can be bought and fitted at a shipyard if ever you need another one. Your Autopilot, the Robocruise automatic navigation system, superseded the Celestial Pathfinder which was less reliable.

The Autopilot can only be used to select a destination in the system through which you are currently travelling. For longer journeys, a hyperspace jump needs to be made.

If you are in flight click on the Flight Control Icon F7 and cycle to Autopilot to engage it. To return to Manual flight, use the Flight Control icon F7 and cycle to Manual or Engines Off.

The Robocruise will automatically plot and maintain the course to your destination. It will also lower the undercarriage and dock or land for you, having automatically asked for clearance, while you freshen up. Some pilots find it disorientating when the Robocruise engages and swings the ship round. The true Spacehound knows that it is only locking on to the new course.

Remember you can only trade and do business in cities or at space stations.

If you do land anywhere else the console will indicate Landed (Rough).

The Robocruise really comes into its own when used in conjunction with the Stardreamer Time Control unit which is fitted as standard on all ships due to regulations regarding Wilbron's psychosis. This condition is known to afflict the space traveller who endures lengthy, uneventful journeys. Boredom becomes so intense after all leisure pursuits have been exhausted that pilots have been known to fly their craft into the odd star or planet just to liven things up a bit.

This is directly from the Elite 2 manual. Read the last line again.

 

[SatansMittens]

Wow! Thats classic right there..... that last paragraph ^^^^^

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

Was discussed in depth during alpha/beta... cant see it ever happening infact the docking computer was only added as a blast from the 80's - which is why even that splatters you into the station walls every so often ( as the original did )! Route planner is plenty enough, in the words of the developers - fly your ship you lazy btards!

If true then I'd say in hindsight it was the wrong decision. It happens no one is perfect.

 

[Sunsol]

The base problem is that elite in it's core is boring. Supercruise and jumping is boring. It's not the wait that makes it so boring it's the fact that you have to pay just enough attention as to course correct but not enough to actually play.

Auto pilot would work and wouldn't affect anyone who doesn't want it. Any and every argument against it is childish and without reason.
Flying your ship doesn't include supercruise or jumps. It just doesn't all your doing is pointing it in a direction and pressing a button. The real flying happens outside of sc.

Instead of unfound bashing of a great idea start asking why so many people want it in the first place and what could remedy the problem.

 

[Ibastavd]

Some - not all, not most, not saying anything other than some people - seem to fall into the same 'I don't like/want it, so I don't want others to have it either' camp of so many other possible feature discussions like this.

Agree with reasoning or not, I totally get and makes sense if the position against nav comps as described or similar to OP was:

*not all dev features displace other features, but if this did, then yea - would prefer other things get priority first {this is the not against others having it, just prefer other priorities argument - makes sense.}

*I will never use it, and don't want it as mandatory or even default on otherwise don't care {this too makes sense, if you're forced to use it, I'd see why you're against it. same for if it were optional feature like docking comp but somehow enabled automatically}

*I like it, don't care, and/or see the logic of it only as long as consistent with other QoL features that have some trade off (e.g. DC with slot used to enable it) {this too makes sense to me, I'd understand the position of someone against the freebie inclusion of auto nav ability without trading off a slot used like docking computer}

Other examples may apply but all are in similar vein - my .02 cents is I like and use DC, don't care about and prob wouldn't use an auto nav, but would be kinda cool to use a nav comp installed every now and then, and totally don't mind if it made it into game long as other features get priority first (e.g. better storage, better BGS, more ship diversity, etc)

What I shake my head at is the specific sub-type of player who freely admits they won't use this nav comp idea, but also seem to be against other players voluntarily wishing to use it. In essence, I don't like it, hence forbid other players from having it either. If it were mandatory for all, or even default on, or a freebie without module slot, I'd understand the resistance.

But some players in this thread are basically saying because they'd find ED pointless to play if a ship auto piloted enough things for them, they seem to insist that same stance for all players. Sorry, but my cup of tea isn't yours.

Nice post.

 

[S.H.A.D.O]

Ahh cut the drama, ofc you will not do that son, you will just go on playing. There was a AP in the original game and we need one in this game, at some point people will just find mods that will do it, so it's better everyone can get the opportunity to do it.

I still have a working BBC Model B (with newly fitted replacement capacitors in the PSU) and yep, I've been playing Elite recently, its still as awesome as ever, but I can assure you that you are utterly wrong re:- 'There was a AP in the original game' There is NO autopilot in Elite.

also as for 'we need one'. no, we do not 'need' one at all.

 

[SatansMittens]

I still have a working BBC Model B (with newly fitted replacement capacitors in the PSU) and yep, I've been playing Elite recently, its still as awesome as ever, but I can assure you that you are utterly wrong re:- 'There was a AP in the original game' There is NO autopilot in Elite.

also as for 'we need one'. no, we do not 'need' one at all.

What? I'm not sure what you're trying to say? Did i miss something

 

[veryinky]

What? I'm not sure what you're trying to say? Did i miss something

The gist of it is that he's old and his memory is failing; he's trying to use the "back in my day" argument while being unable to remember that the 1984 version of elite had a docking computer and he's confusing himself as everyone by referring himself as "we". He's hoping to impress others by saying he's run the original Elite using an antique computer but it's easy to tell he's lying because he's saying the original Elite didn't have a docking computer. That or he's confusing Elite 2 or Elite First Encounters which had navigation computers with Elite or Elite Plus which only had a docking computer.

[video=youtube;L-VJeVPeawk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-VJeVPeawk[/video]

To recap:
All Elite games have had a docking computer.
Half of all elite games have had a navigation computer.

 

[SatansMittens]

The gist of it is that he's old and his memory is failing; he's trying to use the "back in my day" argument while being unable to remember that the 1984 version of elite had a docking computer and he's confusing himself as everyone by referring himself as "we". He's hoping to impress others by saying he's run the original Elite using an antique computer but it's easy to tell he's lying because he's saying the original Elite didn't have a docking computer. That or he's confusing Elite 2 or Elite First Encounters which had navigation computers with Elite or Elite Plus which only had a docking computer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-VJeVPeawk

To recap:
All Elite games have had a docking computer.
Half of all elite games have had a navigation computer.

So it isnt a crazy idea to think that it should be in elite dangerous as well...

 

[Vasious]

LOL, my horse can find its way home when I'm drunk ....so...NO.

Pretty sure your horse is sentient and my car is not

 

[CMDR Dumbfries]

You had a choice to take this mission, yes? So the game did give you the opportunity to not go there?

I didn't have the system data until I arrived. It would be nice if station distance was listed on the mission screen.
I know, too much to ask from a game that's still in beta.

 

[Tataboj]

I dunno, if you don't like too much travelling, then adjust your style of playing. But I would be happy with the idea Cosmicspacehead suggested - a nav computer that can line up to a destination and jump to a next system, but nothing else.

I didn't have the system data until I arrived. It would be nice if station distance was listed on the mission screen.
I know, too much to ask from a game that's still in beta.

Oh daamn. Elite just got rekted.

 

[Brownshortz]

The argument over having an autopilot or not is probably the oldest one on the forums. I really can't see why some people (probably a vocal minority) are so against it tbh. I mean if it ruins your immersion then don't use one...simple. I mean there would be some disadvantages to using one as well like missing out on interesting USS's or not being at the helm when you are interdicted.....but if a player wants to take that chance then it should be up to him. This silly view that "adding X to the game will ruin my immersion so no one should have it" is just plain selfish. For the record I probably wouldn't use one that much but if people want it then who am I to say they shouldn't have the option?

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

The only legitimate reason to object that I can see (notice the nay-sayers are very thin on the ground with proper reasoning themselves) is that it would encourage more long distance trading, ease the effort on long range exploring and remove piloting skill/effort.

Well 2 out of 3 of those can be solved by using a rank wall of Elite, by which time you've already done 10,000's of LY travel and 500 or more jumps i.e. you know how to fly you're just being tied to the flight controls for menial tasks now. I use the docking computer on my large ships and I personally prefer that chillout experience watching the sights etc whilst docking it raises the quality for me. Of course I could dock manually if I wanted and sometimes have to quickly to avoid a Scan that the docking computer would not respond to. Even consumer drones today have GPS autopilots for like £150, what do you think fighter pilots do fly manually from their base to the area of operation?

I get it that it's not been the highest priority especially at the beginning but now ED has been out for a bit and CMDRs have quite a bit of time in game the novelty of hopping from star to star starts to wear thin it would be nice to relax and look at the sights or focus on other things whilst doing some (not necessarily all) of the traveling even if it takes a little longer so its not doing it in an optimal way.

 

[SatansMittens]

The only legitimate reason to object that I can see (notice the nay-sayers are very thin on the ground with proper reasoning themselves) is that it would encourage more long distance trading, ease the effort on long range exploring and remove piloting skill/effort.

Well 2 out of 3 of those can be solved by using a rank wall of Elite, by which time you've already done 10,000's of LY travel and 500 or more jumps i.e. you know how to fly you're just being tied to the flight controls for menial tasks now. I use the docking computer on my large ships and I personally prefer that chillout experience watching the sights etc whilst docking it raises the quality for me. Of course I could dock manually if I wanted and sometimes have to quickly to avoid a Scan that the docking computer would not respond to. Even consumer drones today have GPS autopilots for like £150, what do you think fighter pilots do fly manually from their base to the area of operation?

I get it that it's not been the highest priority especially at the beginning but now ED has been out for a bit and CMDRs have quite a bit of time in game the novelty of hopping from star to star starts to wear thin it would be nice to relax and look at the sights or focus on other things whilst doing some (not necessarily all) of the traveling even if it takes a little longer so its not doing it in an optimal way.

Oh...oh....
Maybe someone can do one of those polls asking if poeple would want a "simple" navigation computer, ie.. autopilot. Would have to keep the explanation simple and concise though to avoid the "win button" debaters.

 

[Vasious]

The only legitimate reason to object that I can see (notice the nay-sayers are very thin on the ground with proper reasoning themselves) is that it would encourage more long distance trading, ease the effort on long range exploring and remove piloting skill/effort.

Well 2 out of 3 of those can be solved by using a rank wall of Elite, by which time you've already done 10,000's of LY travel and 500 or more jumps i.e. you know how to fly you're just being tied to the flight controls for menial tasks now. I use the docking computer on my large ships and I personally prefer that chillout experience watching the sights etc whilst docking it raises the quality for me. Of course I could dock manually if I wanted and sometimes have to quickly to avoid a Scan that the docking computer would not respond to. Even consumer drones today have GPS autopilots for like £150, what do you think fighter pilots do fly manually from their base to the area of operation?

I get it that it's not been the highest priority especially at the beginning but now ED has been out for a bit and CMDRs have quite a bit of time in game the novelty of hopping from star to star starts to wear thin it would be nice to relax and look at the sights or focus on other things whilst doing some (not necessarily all) of the traveling even if it takes a little longer so its not doing it in an optimal way.

An Autopilot in range of some system to navigate it and plot its position, like the GPS on the Fighters and Drones?

Sure, it is the Docking Computer.

 

[Ian Skippy]

As long as there is nothing to do when a a computer takes over, there is no point to it. If you prefer nothing over what ED offers, best look for a different game. Once spacelegs is around I wouldnt mind strolling around a corvette while the computer flies around. It could be easily be balanced by making the computer peform much slower than a human would.

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

Oh...oh....
Maybe someone can do one of those polls asking if poeple would want a "simple" navigation computer, ie.. autopilot. Would have to keep the explanation simple and concise though to avoid the "win button" debaters.

Well if someone can come up with a "win button" debate then lets hear it I've not seen anything to suggest a simple autopilot or nav computer does anything more than a QoL thing like the docking computer and Flight Assist. There is no debate as yet no proper reasoning as to why it should be opposed, its all 'I don't want it therefore you shouldn't have it, with outlandish examples which don't stand up" :|

 

[Kellan Fell]

I just took a mission and the station is 380,000ls from the main star. I don't know about a nav computer but this game needs something.

Try a Hutton run where the station is 0.22 LIGHT YEARS away from the main star. Over an hour in supercruise, having to constantly adjust your trajectory slightly, and wondering when you're going to get interdicted (knowing it will be as soon as you go for a pee or make a brew). The Hutton run is how you find your max spped in supercruise before turnover, and those of us that have done it wear the pain with pride.

I agree that in the 34th centruy it seems ridiculous that there is nothing in a ship which (if you read the background lore) has an A.I. called Astra as the onboard computer, that can't deal with the dull bits of supercruise. I can live without an automated pilot for jumps (I had a bad experience with this in EVE where I set a route to exclude anything lower than 0.5 sec and left the autopilot moving a trade vessel on a run that would have taken over an hour of jump, warp, jump, warp... I came back to it about 10 minutes before I expected the end and found my pod sat in a random station. I'd been dragged out of warp and killed whilst on autopilot, losing a couple of billion in cargo and a 3 billion isk ship!), but I do think it could be offered as a module (similar to the Docking Computer) and then it's up to the pilot whether they equip it.

If you chose to use the autopilot you accept the fact that if you go AFK then you will die if you are interdicted, since your onboard A.I. is apparently too stupid to perform basic escape and evasion.