Nerf Reverski

Hellakitty

Hellakitty
dognosh said:
Ok,change of subject ?
I thought we were talking about reverse thrust ?!?!
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The picture posted showed a low-bypass turbofan engine with pivot-door hot-stream reverser. An air-breathing engine, which is why I pointed out you need air for it to work. I pointed it out because it seemed strange to include it in a thread about engines in a vacuum, where by far the best and most efficient way to slow down and reverse is to have retro-thrusters.

I don't know why you thought I looked silly for pointing that an air-breathing engine needed air to work......?
 
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Aashenfox

Aashenfox
Genar-Hofoen said:
Hmmm you must be new he*checks your profile* yeah.

Been through all this before, sonny :) Got the scars to prove it, too ;)

Bottom line is the flight model was decided on more than 4 years ago and FA Off was a concession to us Newtonian-lovers, but even Fa-Off is actually still with some dumb speed limit.

In fact - you used to be able to FA-Off and Boost and your ship would fly away at that boost speed, which again annoyed the PvP snowflakes because then ships could just escape from their clutches and they were denied that addictive explosion they all crave. So Frontier caved in for the sake of gameplay (i.e. "Let's give these children more explosions") and further lobotmised FA-Off to have - wait for it! - your ship actively decay its velocity!

And now here we are, years later and a new group of PvP snowflakes are crying for further nerfs to FA-Off because others are using what should be considered a perfectly valid manoeuvre in ANY space battle, and they don't want to cope with it, instead asking Frontier to even further turn the game into 3D Space Invaders Arcade Crap.

Well, boo-frickin-hoo! If your opponent is using a manoeuvre you don't like, call the fight off and walk away from it. Don't go crying to Frontier about it just because it might deprive you of your ̶c̶r̶a̶c̶k̶ ̶ explosion.
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Hey guys, I'm new! lol.

Your lack of understanding of mechanics or affinity for players that aren't you is ASTOUNDING.
 
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Genar-Hofoen

Genar-Hofoen
StiTch said:
I used to be on board with this but let's face it - ED is about as polar an opposite from "realistic" as it gets. I laugh internally every time I hear "simulator" mentioned.

FD wanted epic dogfighting style combat, and that very early on ruled out realistic physics and mechanics. Instead of paying attention to orbits and taking jousting shots at each other once every few minutes they nurfed physics so hard we are forced to fight within a couple of km of each other...weapons can't handle it despite that projectiles shouldn't lose any noticeable velocity in space, and ships can't travel fast enough to force it into jousting.

I'm personally quite wary of calling for nerfs, especially to fundamental physics, but this has been backed by many good players in the past with good reason. Anyone can employ it with minimal skill, PvE players included, and it turns a fight into a foolproof victory by allowing you to completely negate agility and forcing long range engagements; due to your ability to pitch while reversing, you can even force it against ships that are barely slower than you.

In effect, it removes many of the limitations FD imposed to ensure space battles would be the exciting dogfights they intended, while forcing the victim to remain hampered by the limitations.

I see no reason it needs to remain in-game other than to appease "I love enabling god mode" players in big ships. If you have a legitimate argument against it, please - pray tell. If the most you have to offer otherwise is "dun't listen to dem nasty PvPers" then thankyou for your time :)
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Here's one good argument - if you don't like what your opponent is doing - walk away from it. Unless of course you're so addicted to a pixel explosion that you'd rather see the game turned even more arcade than it already is :)
 

Lateralus

Lateralus
Perhaps Fdev should implement a heat build-up penalty for using reverse thrust? This could be amplified when weapons are fired at the same time..
 

dognosh

dognosh
Hellakitty said:
The picture posted showed a low-bypass turbofan engine with pivot-door hot-stream reverser. An air-breathing engine, which is why I pointed out you need air for it to work. I pointed it out because it seemed strange to include it in a thread about engines in a vacuum, where by far the best and most efficient way to slow down and reverse is to have retro-thrusters.

I don't know why you thought I looked silly for pointing that an air-breathing engine needed air to work......?
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Because the whole point of this thread was reversing in a vacuum.
The picture was purely for showing the reversing "fins" or whatever they're called.

Why oh why would I be commenting about the use of an air-breathing engine in space ?
 

Hellakitty

Hellakitty
dognosh said:
Because the whole point of this thread was reversing in a vacuum.
The picture was purely for showing the reversing "fins" or whatever they're called.

Why oh why would I be commenting about the use of an air-breathing engine in space ?
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Because I commented on a picture of an air-breathing engine, and you commented on that comment.
 

CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost

C
Truesilver said:
Sorry, not read the whole thread but as ever it comes back to the 'Big Ship PvP Problem'...
…
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It's actually quite simple to solve that problem.

Roughly:
Big ships are slow and un-maneuverable, but have huge shields and armor. Small ships are fast an agile.
Big ships have big weapons unable to target small ships. Small ships have weapons that can't really hurt big ships.

Result would be that:
Big ships can fight big ships, small ships can fight small ships.
Small ships can run away from big ships. Big ships can jump away from small ships (or ignore them).
It would require the right ship for the task.


Problem: It would require a complete redesign of ship balance (not only for combat, but for every possible activity).


What we have is the "big ship wing PvP" mess that causes all the problems in this game.
 

Han_Zen

Han_Zen
Ziljan said:
They don't need to change the way FA off works, they just need to severely limit the acceleration of reverse thrusters. It's currently way too high most ships. Should be based on the type of ship of course. The ships with forward facing vents (ie all Lakon ships) should have higher (unchanged) reverse acceleration.
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Of course, but in FA off you can use your forward thrust acceleration and just flip around. If you want to hard nerf the speed you can move in the opposite direction where your guns are pointing, something must be adjusted in the FA off flight model.
 

Brrokk

Brrokk
Genar-Hofoen said:
...
Bottom line is the flight model was decided on more than 4 years ago and FA Off was a concession to us Newtonian-lovers, but even Fa-Off is actually still with some dumb speed limit.

In fact - you used to be able to FA-Off and Boost and your ship would fly away at that boost speed, which again annoyed the PvP snowflakes because then ships could just escape from their clutches and they were denied that addictive explosion they all crave. So Frontier caved in for the sake of gameplay (i.e. "Let's give these children more explosions") and further lobotmised FA-Off to have - wait for it! - your ship actively decay its velocity!

And now here we are, years later and a new group of PvP snowflakes are crying for further nerfs to FA-Off because others are using what should be considered a perfectly valid manoeuvre in ANY space battle, and they don't want to cope with it, instead asking Frontier to even further turn the game into 3D Space Invaders Arcade Crap.
...
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Yes, FA-off is a horrible sticking plaster to cover up the fact that the flight model is nothing to do with space.

The fact that boost speed slowly decays is absolutely insane given the description "Flight-Assist Off". If it's not the FA computer firing the thrusters, what is causing the speed to change?

About a year ago, some bright person figured out that they could circumvent the crazy effect by going FA-off, turning 90 degrees and boosting perpendicular to the direction of travel. The resultant velocity was then higher than the speed along the original direction would have been because Pythagoras. But this was identified as "unintended" and "fixed". That's right, "FA-off" isn't "intended" to be FA-off, in case traders get away.
 

m0rl0ck

M
The more i read and think about this the more im of the opinion that we need to just accept the flight model as it is.
We all know what the possibilities are when FD starts "fixing" things.
 

Lateralus

Lateralus
Just reduce the reverse thrust speed by about 30%-40% and give it a thermal penalty. This will force reverski players to use FA-off, which they will probably struggle with as it is more skill-based...
 

Captain N

C
Lateralus said:
Just reduce the reverse thrust speed by about 30%-40% and give it a thermal penalty. This will force reverski players to use FA-off, which they will probably struggle with as it is more skill-based...
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The game's been out for what, 4 years? Who's still struggling with FAOFF?
 

Lucius-Darcia

Lucius-Darcia
Powderpanic said:
Word!

Reverski makes pew pew in ED just a bit silly.

Now let us ignore physics because ED does.

Ships are given a set forward speed and this forward speed is given by the visually large engines and the wonderful boost.

Most directions for the ship are controlled by the smaller thrusters.

I don't see a backwards facing thruster on any of the ships, so why can they fly backwards so fast?

My immersion! Destroyed!

Now I am not saying ships cannot reverse, the reverse just needs to be nerfed a little.
It was nerfed once before, early days. So there is precident.

This would make for far more dynamic pew pew!

Big ships would have to FAO and use turrets to counter their new loss of backwards tanking.

Skillless pilots with long range weapons, couldnt just fly backwards. Staying out of their targets normal weapon range.

Death to the big reverski!

https://media.giphy.com/media/11oauh2CqGIy88/giphy.gif
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It's not possible without bringing up "buff NPC's please"-threads again.
Anacondas, Fas, etc.....NPC's LOVE to do the reverski :D
 
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