Nerf the FDL for pvp’s sake

CMDR Cknarf

CMDR Cknarf
The difference is, the FDL can reach insane numbers without any guardian gimmicks, still have more/similar hull than any medium attempting to match its raw shielding via GSRPs, and move better than any of them, even when heavy.

1v1, some ships are more viable, sure. Pythons and kraits can have banks for days, and more overall health depending on the build. A medium rail is all it takes to crash anyone's party if you're factoring in banks to those numbers. You might be able to sneak off a bank in a duel, but take any of those ships you mentioned into a wing fight against anyone competent in FDLs, and 9/10 times you're gonna get dunked on.

edit: I’d like to make it clear that I agree that shields need some nerf-action. They discussed it prior to 3.0, and somehow managed to BUFF shield boosters.

The FDL is just the dominant ship, and a perfect example of how broken they are.

We haven’t even got into how crazy the large ship numbers are.
 
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Crimson Kaim

Crimson Kaim
Revert the unecessary FDL buff from 2016 or so and we're fine.

  • Reduce PP size to C5
  • Reduce heat radiation per second
  • Reduce heat capacity

At the end of the day it will remain a highly flexible ship but with tradeoffs so it is not fast, agile, tanky and the best damage dealer among the C6 distros at the same time.
 

Slange Lands

Slange Lands
Crimson Kaim said:
Revert the unecessary FDL buff from 2016 or so and we're fine.

  • Reduce PP size to C5
  • Reduce heat radiation per second
  • Reduce heat capacity

At the end of the day it will remain a highly flexible ship but with tradeoffs so it is not fast, agile, tanky and the best damage dealer among the C6 distros at the same time.
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Even with an overcharged monstered size 5 Powerplant, the FDL is quite OP. Just switch one A booster to a D booster.
 

Crimson Kaim

Crimson Kaim
Slange Lands said:
Even with an overcharged monstered size 5 Powerplant, the FDL is quite OP. Just switch one A booster to a D booster.
Click to expand...
True but then this would be because of the already mentioned shield issue. Also the efficient blueprint having no downsides is just too strong for PAs too, long range having no damage falloff, etc. etc.
There are countless issues which once have been written down on a 20 page long document that later got abandoned because we didn't see any hope for even one proposed change to occur.
 
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cmdr Ramius007

C
Cknarf said:
The difference is, the FDL can reach insane numbers without any guardian gimmicks, still have more/similar hull than any medium attempting to match its raw shielding via GSRPs, and move better than any of them, even when heavy.

1v1, some ships are more viable, sure. Pythons and kraits can have banks for days, and more overall health depending on the build. A medium rail is all it takes to crash anyone's party if you're factoring in banks to those numbers.
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1vs1 you cascade maybe 20% of banks, even on something like krait, cant speak about python as i lack experiance fighting in and against those, if we are talknig about c5+ banks then 1 med rail shot is not even enaugh to cancel those fully. How you achive this effect of shielding doesnt matter, but what i know is: ships with weak base shields and no c6 internals are suffering due 3.0 engineering i mentioned, prismatic FAS compered to prism challanger have around 1k MJ weaker shields! This kind of gap is only possible due OP shields multipliers and guardian shield modules as those facilitate getting big enaugh base shields to easily double bank. Touching FDL shields alone only weaken FDL, but not restore balance, and IMO FDL is relatively difficult ship to fly, it's not that powerfull without heavy use of lateral thrusters and fa-of, is very pip sensitive too, problem is how strong FDL is in hands of good pilot, and IMO we shouldn't try to balance this.
 

Postal

Postal
OP is right. I am so sick of seeing nothing but FDL's during wing fights. FDL's need to either be nerfed or hull tanks need to be viable again.
Engineering ruined so many things in this game with it's stupid hard counters like emissive and cascade rails.
 

Darth Ender

D
if engineering stayed realistic instead of getting magical, it probably would have made more sense but the gameloops that allow engineering aren't that fun (because they're the same game loops you do to do anything else in the game) so hardly anyone would have participated in engineering.

fdev's job is to ensure player adoption and participation of whatever the latest patch put out to justify the time spent creating it. Not to make it balanced or make sense within the lore. That's why carriers were delivered the way they were and why the means to acquire them remained so easy for so long.

The fdl likely wont be nerfed unless it somehow impacts player use of other ships. Considering that this is only pvp, and that probably constitutes like single digit % or less gameplay, it doesn't look likely.
 

Bryan K

Bryan K
I vote for just nerfing the FdLs of PvPers so those of us who prefer the FdL in PvE activities don’t have to suffer for the sake of a minority of players.
 

cmdr Ramius007

C
All small tweaks in engineering made FDL stronger compered to competition, it was like this with 3.0 engineering, another step making thermal conduit meta possible, ships in lower tier change places, but FDL is increaasing adventage, even carriers indirectly made FDL more viable in more situations than before. I wouldnt touch FDL itself, but rather it's enviroment, weakening boosters stacking, making heat module damage a problem again, etc
 

cmdr Ramius007

C
Not really, other ships dont have it all, best lateral thrusters, best boost multiplier, best firepower, best upfront shields and above avarage speed, it's just broken, in pvp league there was ban on TC effect and 4 boosters limit-for a reason. And this is not even mentioning how bad enviroment is for hulltanks, scramble spectrum crippling thrusters on set modules priorities on low emmisions power plants, no cooldown on emmisive effect, no effective countermesures against packhounds, and so on. Balance is broken, it have to change.
 

VirtueXOI

VirtueXOI
Still it have off centered cockpit :/ .

Edit : plus all theses numbers are nothing. the only thing that makes the FDL best at pvp is insane agility. This plus the little details you mentioned =D .
But if you look at the mamba , it's considered as "bad" by many , because it does not have this agility. If it was not a matter , corvette or cutter may have been best pvp ships.

I dont feel like the FDL need such nerf , maybe a slight nerf of shield potential.
I'd rather buff other style , like the chieftain hull / bi weave , or small ship escape potential or introduce new ship of this kind.

Remember ther will always be some "OP" , perfect balance is hard to achieve and the whole game is not only pvp.
Pvp fight rely on aim and manoevrability because people designed them this way.
If i wanna reversky , mamba is way more OP.

You decided the rules that made FDL true OP. (plus the insane shield stacking , but it's another problem not limited to FDL).

Plus i'v seen alot of very good pvp figth with ships like vulture and chief.
 
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cmdr Ramius007

C
If it bother you, just take 4 gimbal multis and packhounds :) But siriously FDL is hard to fly, require Fa-of and active pip menagement to be effective, problem is that in experianced pilot hands there is no competition, and i m preety much sure most FDL lovers would still pick FDL over alternatives even with let's say 30% weaker shields, or 2 utilities less, it's just how OP FDL currently is in wing fights. Some time ago (before TC meta) at least in 1vs1 there was some competition, chieftain was viable for example, now chaffless FDL against any other simialr build other ship and the letter is in disadvantage.
 

dekot

D
CMDR QUANTIS TRAP said:
For the sake of fun, I'd rather they buff several other ships to be a bit better in PvP.

For instance:
Mamba: Improve the heat dissipation a lot.
Python: Un-nerf the handling back to the way it was.
FAS: Buff so it can compete better again.
Clipper: Make it a medium ship with better shields, convergence and handling (ok, not a buff).
Click to expand...
It's just way easier to nerf the FDL, everybody knows it's hands-down the best PVP ship in the game. You really trust FD to make multiple balance passes?
 

cmdr Ramius007

C
Mamba is good already, i just have no idea why it get worse base shields than FDL, it's Fdev moment :) Python is not really combat ship, and proapbly best multupurpose ship in game, Clipper need content for it skills, pve is too easy for need of fast hauler, can imagine clipper being important if we ever see open only power play or BGS, FAS is in worst state of them all, what is sad is that with simialrly skilled pilots hulltank/hybrid FDL usually win against hulltank/hybrid FAS. Parhaps buffing shield multiplier would make it more viable again.
 
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