New Meta-Wishlist for Planet Zoo

[Swiftie_Midnights_]

After a lot of thinking and recent criticisms regarding the Meta-Wishlist. Do we need a new Meta-Wishlist? There are so many Meta-Wishlists here that are very good but I see one and main problem that makes the Meta-Wishlist a less reliable place and of course this is not a problem with Random Goat or SuzieSky even though the Meta Wishlist by SuzieSky is better in terms of how it works. Everyone has animals they want and there are many times it changes and suddenly you want another animal that you never knew or didn't want until you realized how beautiful, cool, cute and every animal and it's character is. And I think because right now there is a big chance that 2023 will be the last year for Support by Frontier. And of course everyone has specific animals that they want, the problem is that the game unfortunately will not continue to receive support forever, and if this is really the last year of support for PZ we should not only think about ourselves and what animals we want to see but what animals the majority of the community would be happy to have in order to define The game is perfect.
So the problem I see with Meta-Wishlists is that the list is most definitely updated after new dlc and the problem with this is the fact that for example the Meta-Wishlist by Random Goat is the fact that this list has existed for over a year and a half and the list is updated from time to time which adds either new animals to the list or more votes for it an animal.
And the problem with that is, like I said, everyone has animals they want for a while and then it changes, and if it changes and it's in the top 10 in the meta wishlist, it means that there are great chances that that animal will come to the game, and there are people who want it to come, and there are those who don't, and like I said, we need to think as a community right now more Everyone thinks only of himself and his priorities. So what I want to say is that we need a new Meta-Wishlist that will work properly and then really Frontier will know which animals people wanted once and no longer and which animals we still want and then that way we can finish the game with animals that are really essential to the game. So how it can work? Well, I have an idea that was inspired by @Old Country so all the credit for this guy.
Iso how it gonna work? so I think it needs a limit of say 30 animals which means you can write 30 essential animals. Then any animal that will be in high demand will join 30 most requested animals for NOW! and why now because as I said few times in this post everyone has Animals that they want to see in Planet Zoo but this year might be the last one so if we want to get Animals that overall the community want, for that we need to work together! that maybe for example you want to see Three Toed Sloth instead of Two Toed Sloth It's ok but if most of the community wants the Two Toed Sloth I think you should vote for it, because It's still a sloth maybe you prefer this species but if most of the community want the different species well then I think you need to think about the community instead of what you want to see. because or it's either vote for a different species of this animal that you want less but it's still this animal or It's just not to get this animal for PZ we really need now to think about what the community really want to see
so as I said it gonna work that you write your 30 most wanted animals and if a lot more peoples wants this animal then it will add to the list if no for now it wouldn't added. and about the list itself after every dlc a new list would open that then frontier will know what animals we still want and what animals we wanted but not anymore, and then it will give more idea for frontier torwards what they should added and what no. of course It's no perfect or something but I think it is better solution for what animals we probably will get in 2023 and what no.
I still will love to hear your opinion if you even think new Meta-Wishlist It's something that should happen so (Poll Link Removed) so hope that you a least will give it an try and let's see how it will work if it will work well, so great if no, so I will delete it. well thank you and hope you will have an amazing day!

 

[YesIndeed]

Preferably we'd have a new one after every dlc to see what people care about after new inclusions. The main problem with that though is that we'd need someone to support it.

So unless you'd be willing to do that or you can find someone else who want to then I think we should just stick with the existing ones.

 

[Swiftie_Midnights_]

Preferably we'd have a new one after every dlc to see what people care about after new inclusions. The main problem with that though is that we'd need someone to support it.

So unless you'd be willing to do that or you can find someone else who want to then I think we should just stick with the existing ones.

Yeah all the points that you said that's really the main problems with the current Meta-Wishlists I'm planning to open a new Meta-Wishlist but I just need to know how many here support it

 

[Captain Callum]

Yeah all the points that you said that's really the main problems with the current Meta-Wishlists I'm planning to open a new Meta-Wishlist but I just need to know how many here support it

Yeah with the extremely outdated main metawishlist in terms of the game needs right now , I agree we would need a new one every single dlc season. My initial wishlist last year has changed entirely so my votes are rather invalid. How many other of these votes for the Lar gibbon, sloth and Tasmanian devil are still supported 100%?

Even I wouldn't mind joining onto the effort if needed

 

[Swiftie_Midnights_]

Yeah with the extremely outdated main metawishlist in terms of the game needs right now , I agree we would need a new one every single dlc season. My initial wishlist last year has changed entirely so my votes are rather invalid. How many other of these votes for the Lar gibbon, sloth and Tasmanian devil are still supported 100%?

Even I wouldn't mind joining onto the effort if needed

Oh definitely, for example as you said Tasmanian Devil, they are such a cool creatures but they aren't essential that without them the game feel incomplete, it would be really cool to have but they aren't essential and the same for the Lar Gibbon. And It's the same also for the Red Fox peoples have been prefer the red fox than the arctic fox then we got the arctic fox for some point peoples really wanted the red fox and then it stopped and year later we got the red fox because they still been pretty high on the meta wishlist, so yeah I definitely think we need an better Meta Wishlist and I think I can do it and if i would get help it would be even better if some here will help me, thank you for wanting to help I really do appreciate it!

 

[DarthQuell]

Swiftie, I'd say you should go ahead and begin (assuming @random goat and @SuzieSky are ok with it).

After all, the OG meta-wishlist is outdated with the thousands of messages that get lost and, unfortunately, not enough people are aware of the 2nd meta-wishlist Suzie started...

In my opinion, the problem with these wishlists is that they're worked on alone. When I began the exhibit wishlist, I was working alone and eventually got overwhelmed (among some personal matters that we're happening), so I passed the torch to @ReptoMin, and he's done a fantastic job.

I'd say that, unless you're ok with pressure and deadlines, you should have at least 1 helper. I'd volunteer but I already deal with enough stress, so I won't be a big help...

 

[Swiftie_Midnights_]

Swiftie, I'd say you should go ahead and begin (assuming @random goat and @SuzieSky are ok with it).

After all, the OG meta-wishlist is outdated with the thousands of messages that get lost and, unfortunately, not enough people are aware of the 2nd meta-wishlist Suzie started...

In my opinion, the problem with these wishlists is that they're worked on alone. When I began the exhibit wishlist, I was working alone and eventually got overwhelmed (among some personal matters that we're happening), so I passed the torch to @ReptoMin, and he's done a fantastic job.

I'd say that, unless you're ok with pressure and deadlines, you should have at least 1 helper. I'd volunteer but I already deal with enough stress, so I won't be a big help...

The reasons why the current meta wishlists are having a problems is because they are outdated I do think that after every dlc should be a new list for example the Gibbons: why you think the Lar Gibbon still on the 10 top of the meta wishlist by Random Goat It's because It's also from the start and a lot of stuff have been changed we got the Siamang if there been a new list after that you will see the Lar Gibbon wouldn't be so high anymore, because they are from the same family but they aren't the same species so that's is the MAIN issue with the current meta wishlist and because this we need a better one, of course they can continue with their meta wishlist of course (and of course I'm not trying to even sound like they didn't make it really well they made an fantastic job and probably without @random goat and @SuzieSky our past was so different and maybe even worse), but all I'm trying to say is that we should start to have meta wishlist that would work better (of course no perfect but I think better).

and if we will get enough support for new meta wishlist we will open it, and me and the amazing @Captain Callum going to be part of it and help me, and I'm so grateful~

so yeah I really hoping that peoples will try to help for this and support it, because this is not for us like if it wouldn't get enough support, frontier won't really look at it, and then we will continue get more animals from the same family and of course It's not something bad but if this is the last support year then we should get animals that modders for example can't make or it wouldn't work so well, like porcupine, birds, sloth and more... so it really important to see a support in it because as I said It's not for us, It's for all the community.

 

[biggest_dreamer]

I actually have two points to raise about why it's never really struck me as a big deal at this point. One, any new meta wishlist will never get the visibility and number of votes that the primary one has. It would wind up surveying a fraction of what’s already been documented, and frankly I don’t see how it would wind up being any different than suzie_sky’s in that regard. And two, the overall “need” for a meta wishlist just isn’t what it was several years ago. At this point I’d be shocked if Frontier didn’t know exactly which species they intended to include for the remainder of the game’s support cycle. Even if they somehow don’t, they still know what’s popular, they can reasonably assume that the lar gibbon isn’t actually seen as a top 10 species for most at this point, but they can also surely tell from discussions everywhere that it’s still a fairly agreeable choice despite that.

I mean by all means do whatever you feel compelled to do, but I just see another new list as a large investment of time and effort when we’re well past the point of diminishing returns on these things.

 

[Captain Callum]

I actually have two points to raise about why it's never really struck me as a big deal at this point. One, any new meta wishlist will never get the visibility and number of votes that the primary one has. It would wind up surveying a fraction of what’s already been documented, and frankly I don’t see how it would wind up being any different than suzie_sky’s in that regard. And two, the overall “need” for a meta wishlist just isn’t what it was several years ago. At this point I’d be shocked if Frontier didn’t know exactly which species they intended to include for the remainder of the game’s support cycle. Even if they somehow don’t, they still know what’s popular, they can reasonably assume that the lar gibbon isn’t actually seen as a top 10 species for most at this point, but they can also surely tell from discussions everywhere that it’s still a fairly agreeable choice despite that.

I mean by all means do whatever you feel compelled to do, but I just see another new list as a large investment of time and effort when we’re well past the point of diminishing returns on these things.

Yeah that's pretty much my thoughts aswell. Swiftie and I are trying to see how much interest is in making such a new meta wishlist , if there isn't enough answers then it is really a waste of time

 

[Swiftie_Midnights_]

I actually have two points to raise about why it's never really struck me as a big deal at this point. One, any new meta wishlist will never get the visibility and number of votes that the primary one has. It would wind up surveying a fraction of what’s already been documented, and frankly I don’t see how it would wind up being any different than suzie_sky’s in that regard. And two, the overall “need” for a meta wishlist just isn’t what it was several years ago. At this point I’d be shocked if Frontier didn’t know exactly which species they intended to include for the remainder of the game’s support cycle. Even if they somehow don’t, they still know what’s popular, they can reasonably assume that the lar gibbon isn’t actually seen as a top 10 species for most at this point, but they can also surely tell from discussions everywhere that it’s still a fairly agreeable choice despite that.

I mean by all means do whatever you feel compelled to do, but I just see another new list as a large investment of time and effort when we’re well past the point of diminishing returns on these things.

I get where are you coming from, if I agree yes and no, you really pointed here out really good points, of course if we will open a new meta wishlist it would be far from perfect or something and really me and @Captain Callum really trying to get a view from all the points, It's not we just want to open a new meta wishlist for our fun, no. that's why I also make form to know even if peoples want to see a new meta wishlist and It may come as a surprise, but 85% think that new meta wishlist it really needed, they are so far 16 responses to this form and almost everyone said that yes it really needed.
so It's not even something that me and Callum said, It's the community the community really thinks that we need to have a new meta wishlist. of course I definitely get that is your opinion and I more than accept it.

and of course even with new meta wishlist It's doesn't mean that we will stop seeing "unique choices" in the dlcs, frontier of course not only looking into the meta wishlist but that's a lot of the base for a lot of the packs for example, Wetlands Animal Pack there are some of the most requesting animals for the game like the Capybara and the Platypus and the Asian Small-Clawed Otter they all been so requesting, and of course I'm not part of frontier team or something but I think they take one or two or three of the most requesting animals right now and they are looking how to fit those three together and I think and then they see that they all living in wetlands area, so here is idea and then I think they research animals in wetlands area and then frontier give us less requesting animals like the Nile Lechwe or the Spectacled Caiman and that's the reason why we got them. But this is no related to the meta wishlist, it is related to how frontier builds their dlcs.

 

[random goat]

It may come as a surprise, but 85% think that new meta wishlist it really needed, they are so far 16 responses to this form and almost everyone said that yes it really needed.
so It's not even something that me and Callum said, It's the community the community really thinks that we need to have a new meta wishlist. of course I definitely get that is your opinion and I more than accept it.

I wouldn't speak in the name of the community so assertively without data to support your statements. You remind me of certain content creator who I respect a lot but just couldn’t quite discern between what they wanted and what the PZ community (and not just their community) wanted. There are literally 9 responses to this post so far, not 16, and only 3 of them actually support this idea. Where did you get the 85% from?

I personally don’t mind you starting a new meta-wishlist. Go for it. I think @SuzieSky 's was a good initiative. The OG one has some flaws, I’m not going to deny that, but those flaws are unavoidable. People changing their minds about what animals they prefer every X time is not my problem or a problem of the meta-wishlist, it is these people’s problem. People should just choose wisely, not impulsively, and having all the animal kingdom in mind if they are so self-concerned about their votes.

Now, it is true that if the meta-wishlist isn’t updated after each DLC it creates some artifacts – some abnormal ranks. I allowed replacing votes for around 9 months iirc and even if I still think that was a good idea, it just takes too much effort, both for the person in charge of the meta-wishlist and also for people re-voting (as they need to quote their OG list everytime, etc.). This, what @biggest_dreamer said about Frontier plans, and the fact that 4/5 of the people didn’t do any replacements, made me question if it was really worth it. At the end of the day, IF YOU DON’T LOOK AT THE WISHSLIT FROM A MOD USER PERSPECTIVE, there is only one animal that probably shouldn’t be that high – the Lar gibbon. But then again, Frontier are smart enough to know why it’s so high. And also, funnily enough, there are still a minority of people who keep voting for Lar gibbon anyway.

Also, what @biggest_dreamer said about number of votes. This shouldn't be taken lightly.

 

[YesIndeed]

I wouldn't speak in the name of the community so assertively without data to support your statements. You remind me of certain content creator who I respect a lot but just couldn’t quite discern between what they wanted and what the PZ community (and not just their community) wanted. There are literally 9 responses to this post so far, not 16, and only 3 of them actually support this idea. Where did you get the 85% from?

I personally don’t mind you starting a new meta-wishlist. Go for it. I think @SuzieSky 's was a good initiative. The OG one has some flaws, I’m not going to deny that, but those flaws are unavoidable. People changing their minds about what animals they prefer every X time is not my problem or a problem of the meta-wishlist, it is these people’s problem. People should just choose wisely, not impulsively, and having all the animal kingdom in mind if they are so self-concerned about their votes.

Now, it is true that if the meta-wishlist isn’t updated after each DLC it creates some artifacts – some abnormal ranks. I allowed replacing votes for around 9 months iirc and even if I still think that was a good idea, it just takes too much effort, both for the person in charge of the meta-wishlist and also for people re-voting (as they need to quote their OG list everytime, etc.). This, what @biggest_dreamer said about Frontier plans, and the fact that 4/5 of the people didn’t do any replacements, made me question if it was really worth it. At the end of the day, IF YOU DON’T LOOK AT THE WISHSLIT FROM A MOD USER PERSPECTIVE, there is only one animal that probably shouldn’t be that high – the Lar gibbon. But then again, Frontier are smart enough to know why it’s so high. And also, funnily enough, there are still a minority of people who keep voting for Lar gibbon anyway.

Also, what @biggest_dreamer said about number of votes. This shouldn't be taken lightly.

Agreed that people should just think harder before submitting their wishlist. I wish I had waited a few months rather than doing mine when I first came on the forums. Because since then I've learnt so many animals exist that I didn't before when posting it.

 

[HeatherG]

I've removed the link to the poll since they are not allowed here. Discussion is fine but we don't allowed polls, or links to them, here on the forum.
Thanks for understanding

 

[DarthQuell]

5 Key Animals Wishlist

Well howdy, y'all. Inspired by the thread Swiftie started (I hope you don't mind that I made this one) I've been thinking about wishlists lately, and you know, a huge meta-wishlist ala @random goat and @SuzieSky just isn't realistic now. We have 4 confirmed DLC, plus a highly likely 4th...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Check this thread out

 

[Swiftie_Midnights_]

I wouldn't speak in the name of the community so assertively without data to support your statements. You remind me of certain content creator who I respect a lot but just couldn’t quite discern between what they wanted and what the PZ community (and not just their community) wanted. There are literally 9 responses to this post so far, not 16, and only 3 of them actually support this idea. Where did you get the 85% from?

I personally don’t mind you starting a new meta-wishlist. Go for it. I think @SuzieSky 's was a good initiative. The OG one has some flaws, I’m not going to deny that, but those flaws are unavoidable. People changing their minds about what animals they prefer every X time is not my problem or a problem of the meta-wishlist, it is these people’s problem. People should just choose wisely, not impulsively, and having all the animal kingdom in mind if they are so self-concerned about their votes.

Now, it is true that if the meta-wishlist isn’t updated after each DLC it creates some artifacts – some abnormal ranks. I allowed replacing votes for around 9 months iirc and even if I still think that was a good idea, it just takes too much effort, both for the person in charge of the meta-wishlist and also for people re-voting (as they need to quote their OG list everytime, etc.). This, what @biggest_dreamer said about Frontier plans, and the fact that 4/5 of the people didn’t do any replacements, made me question if it was really worth it. At the end of the day, IF YOU DON’T LOOK AT THE WISHSLIT FROM A MOD USER PERSPECTIVE, there is only one animal that probably shouldn’t be that high – the Lar gibbon. But then again, Frontier are smart enough to know why it’s so high. And also, funnily enough, there are still a minority of people who keep voting for Lar gibbon anyway.

Also, what @biggest_dreamer said about number of votes. This shouldn't be taken lightly.

first, I didn't talk about this thread I have been talking about the Google Form Link, it have right now 24 responses and almost everyone think that we should have a new wishlist, I'm not gonna give a lot more details because it been before few days, but I think you didn't really unerstand what I'm trying to say and what this whole idea is.

firstly, I have NEVER said that It's your problem, I have a lot of respect for you and I think you are doing a very good job. and that's is the people's problems.

Secondly, I know that's if the wishlist do not updated or even better is to open a new wishlist because as you mentioned "People changing their minds about what animals they prefer every X time" which is more then true, and becuase this I think that every time the wishlist should be updated and when there is a new dlc I do think that we should open a new fully wishlist, because then it will create artifacts.

Thirdly, the Lar Gibbon been only as an example, for example the Red Fox why we got it? because It will be pretty easy to make, it has a lot of talk, it been pretty average at the meta wishlist, so why frontier wouldn't give us it, right? and who knows maybe frontier team just like this animal, and that's totally fine.
so the Lar Gibbon It's just an example and I don't really care to get another Gibbon that's is not what I trying to say because our game don't really do so well with primates, so i think almost every primate that we will get the community would welcome it.

Again, It's not your issue It's the people's, and even then It's not also an issue of the people's because everyone have their animals that they want but it can change so quickly. and because this reason I think that we should have another Meta Wishlist, of course you can continue with your thread and I will continue support it, Sorry if the post came off as unclear or a little aggressive, I didn't mean it in any way, I still think that you are doing an amazing job in it, and that's it. THE END.

 

[random goat]

first, I didn't talk about this thread I have been talking about the Google Form Link, it have right now 24 responses and almost everyone think that we should have a new wishlist, I'm not gonna give a lot more details because it been before few days, but I think you didn't really unerstand what I'm trying to say and what this whole idea is.

firstly, I have NEVER said that It's your problem, I have a lot of respect for you and I think you are doing a very good job. and that's is the people's problems.

Secondly, I know that's if the wishlist do not updated or even better is to open a new wishlist because as you mentioned "People changing their minds about what animals they prefer every X time" which is more then true, and becuase this I think that every time the wishlist should be updated and when there is a new dlc I do think that we should open a new fully wishlist, because then it will create artifacts.

Thirdly, the Lar Gibbon been only as an example, for example the Red Fox why we got it? because It will be pretty easy to make, it has a lot of talk, it been pretty average at the meta wishlist, so why frontier wouldn't give us it, right? and who knows maybe frontier team just like this animal, and that's totally fine.
so the Lar Gibbon It's just an example and I don't really care to get another Gibbon that's is not what I trying to say because our game don't really do so well with primates, so i think almost every primate that we will get the community would welcome it.

Again, It's not your issue It's the people's, and even then It's not also an issue of the people's because everyone have their animals that they want but it can change so quickly. and because this reason I think that we should have another Meta Wishlist, of course you can continue with your thread and I will continue support it, Sorry if the post came off as unclear or a little aggressive, I didn't mean it in any way, I still think that you are doing an amazing job in it, and that's it. THE END.

Oh no, it didn't come off as unclear or agressive or anything like that! All good here, no offense taken or anything.
All I was trying to say is that I get your point, but what you suggest would be kind of pointless essentially because of what @biggest_dreamer said.

-Frontier devs have probably already chosen all the DLC animals for this year, or at least their next 3 DLCs - they plan in advance.
-Re-doing a new meta-wishlist from scratch every 3 months is a lot of effort. But hey if you're up to the task then that's alright.
-But most importantly, there is the problem of the so-called statistical power or, essentially, representativeness of your data, survey, wishlist or whatever. How many people would you aim to get to participate in a 3-month timeframe, after each DLC? I think that, optimistically, you could reach 100 maybe? Idk how many participated in SuzieSky's one but I doubt it reached that number. It's still data, yes, but not representative. And I'm not saying mine is representative either, but it has more weight I'd say, even if it was started a long time ago.

 

[Swiftie_Midnights_]

Oh no, it didn't come off as unclear or agressive or anything like that! All good here, no offense taken or anything.
All I was trying to say is that I get your point, but what you suggest would be kind of pointless essentially because of what @biggest_dreamer said.

-Frontier devs have probably already chosen all the DLC animals for this year, or at least their next 3 DLCs - they plan in advance.
-Re-doing a new meta-wishlist from scratch every 3 months is a lot of effort. But hey if you're up to the task then that's alright.
-But most importantly, there is the problem of the so-called statistical power or, essentially, representativeness of your data, survey, wishlist or whatever. How many people would you aim to get to participate in a 3-month timeframe, after each DLC? I think that, optimistically, you could reach 100 maybe? Idk how many participated in SuzieSky's one but I doubt it reached that number. It's still data, yes, but not representative. And I'm not saying mine is representative either, but it has more weight I'd say, even if it was started a long time ago.

oh so for me it been unclear I think because I didn't really understand what you and @biggest_dreamer meant to say, so really sorry about that

• agree with you so much about the fact that frontier probably knows already what a least the 2 upcoming dlcs would be and what they will give us.
• I know It's need a lot of work & effort, and I will take care that will happen
• I definitely understand what are you trying to say, and I kind of agree with you, but I feel that is the way because if it would only updated it would be the same, because for

example Hamadryas baboon right now it sits on number 14# on your meta-wishlist, but what if we will get instead of it the Olive Baboon (it sits right now on number 81# on the meta wishlist), do you think then peoples still will request the Hamadryas baboon will get still votes? of course they look very different but they are still in the same family, of course that peoples still probably will request it, but you think It's still will be so high on the meta wishlist? becuase It's not like it can go really down, and that is the main issue, because then it will feel waste of an animal, in my opinion every animal is unique and I will love to get every species/sub-species on the planet. but really unfortunately It's not really possible a least for offical support. so if that is the last year of support we really need to make sure that we will get animals that the game still don't have like porcupine, sloth, coati, birds and more...and if that for example not the last year for planet zoo then It's a different story, but how long it will take I'm sure that frontier already working on a new game if it is PC2 or a new Planet game so how much I would love support forever it is not really possible because frontier need to continue with other games and like that. and that's all I trying to say is the fact that we really need to make sure that we will continue get animals that the game still not have.

 

[Captain Callum]

I'm sure that frontier already working on a new game

That's well underway , a mod here on the forums confirmed a new game is releasing roughly around 2025. That's why we are believing this is the last year of development, possibly also the reason we are seeing now half a dozen people wanting to make last minute meta wishlist

 

[SuzieSky]

I think that, optimistically, you could reach 100 maybe? Idk how many participated in SuzieSky's one but I doubt it reached that number. It's still data, yes, but not representative. And I'm not saying mine is representative either, but it has more weight I'd say, even if it was started a long time ago.

86 on mine.

 

[SalamAnders]

What the game lacks the most right now are certain animal groups. And wishlists as we have seen them so far don't cover that well.
Wishlists were good when there were still a lot of popular specific species left, to see what should be priorities in case we would not get a lot of DLCs.

A lot of these animals made it in since, and those that are left in the top 20 will probably not change much on a new list (besides from stuff like the lar gibbon)
Left behind are instead categories like monkeys, birds, rodents, and maybe even domestic breeds. All these categories are so big that agreeing on specific animals as a community is very hard (with exceptions of course). So they will still have a hard time making it into the top 20 on a new list, even though they seem to be wanted by many. Therefore I personally don't see much point in these lists anymore, at least not as something that should be taken super seriously.

If 10 people vote on 10 different monkey species, and 3 of those people also vote on a raccoon dog. Then the raccoon dog is going to appear more wanted by the community than a monkey, even though all could agree they wanted a monkey, just not which specific species. They do not reflect the true image of what is wanted.