New player experience: Tutorial "Harmless" combat is rage-quit difficult.

[Ezren]

Do the underside buttons have default bindings? Just curious. Keep meaning to get the Elites.

They do, but you can customize them to be anything (even combinations of buttons). I use the paddles (the underside buttons) for my throttle so I'm not juggling shoulder buttons and triggers at the same time. You can also save different configurations where you re-bind the controls, so I have a whole different setup I use for the SRV I can just swap to on the fly.

Plus all of the attachments are magnetic and have such a satisfying snap-in. And you can adjust your dead zone on the sticks so you can get those super minute movements to register. And it is nice and heavy for a controller.

I could have gotten a cheap joystick for the same price, but this controller has lasted years and I can use it for just about anything.

 

[Ezren]

Anyhow, I have a suspicion that the OP was using fixed weapons, not gimballed, which would explain why it's so difficult to hit a Harmless target. A new pilot in a twitchy Eagle will have a hard time getting consistent damage on a target.

 

[harakan]

Do the underside buttons have default bindings? Just curious. Keep meaning to get the Elites.

They are disabled by default, but you use an app to map them to any of the face buttons / D-pad / triggers / etc; they can't be mapped uniquely. On the Elite 2, you can assign any button/paddle as a "shift" key to get multiple mappings at once, and on both versions you can use the profile toggle button to switch between multiple configurations on-the-fly.

The big advantage of the paddles is to map them to the A/B/X/Y or D-pad controls (depending upon the game - you can have 2/3 different setups for different games loaded at once that you can switch between with a button in the middle of the controller) - this means you can keep your thumbs on the thumbsticks almost all the time.

For ED, I map the top two paddles to be the bumpers, which I use for throttle (with a combo press of both setting fixed 75% for easy supercruising). I've customised the default ED bindings quite a bit to make heavy use of combos; the lower two paddles map to the A and B buttons that are shifts for frequently-used actions during flight/combat. The less-frequently used controls are on X/Y, where it doesn't matter as much if you briefly release the right thumbstick to get to them.

 

[crispience]

Anyhow, I have a suspicion that the OP was using fixed weapons, not gimballed, which would explain why it's so difficult to hit a Harmless target. A new pilot in a twitchy Eagle will have a hard time getting consistent damage on a target.

Yes, I just tried the gimballed beam laser and it makes taking out shields trivial, a matter of a couple seconds. No gimballed kinetic weapons are available, so it's still quite hard to keep on reticule with the multi-cannons, but at least the shields coming back on after a few seconds isn't as frustrating as it was.

So really the newbie frustration could be completely changed by giving new players gimballed weapons, or at least an obvious way for a new player to figure that out without going to the forums (e.g. an email telling you to "upgrade" your weapons to gimballed before heading out to Sharur). And of course to make gimballed multi-cannons available in the newbie zone in the first place...

 

[Rat Catcher]

Reading this through is making me consider activating my 3rd copy of ED - or hope for another beta real soon - as I've yet to visit the new starter zones.
Just as a by-the-by, I had a go at the advanced combat training mission (which I'd last looked at, and failed, around 8 months ago) and completed it for the first time...
I'll have to go look at the basic one again

 

[crispience]

• RE: modules in Pilots Federation District: (Your overall loadout sounds fine.) If you really want a wake scanner, or A rated modules, AND you have not yet gained any Pilot's Federation ranks (combat, trade, exploration,) you can go to other systems and buy whatever other modules you want, then come back to PFD.

You get your Trade rank very quickly (only 5000CR), before you can actually afford upgrades, so that's really not an option. Things that are not available in the newbie zone:

• gimballed kinetic weapons
• wake scanners
• surface scanners
• prospector or collector limpets
• modules better than 'D'

Edit: rechecked and collector limpets are indeed available.

 

[MK Regular]

You get your Trade rank very quickly (only 5000CR), before you can actually afford upgrades, so that's really not an option. Things that are not available in the newbie zone:

• gimballed kinetic weapons
• wake scanners
• surface scanners
• prospector or collector limpets
• modules better than 'D'

If I remember correctly, in the event that you manage to get a Cobra III inside the starter zone you can't many of the size 4 modules at all.

I seem to remember that the Cobra III I managed to get in the starter zone on my alt account had to make do with a 4E shield generator and power plant along with size 3 cargo racks even though I had plenty of credits to spare.

 

[Ezren]

I'm inclined to agree that new players should have Gimballed weapons, or at least be instructed to install such weapons early on. Having 2x Gimballed weapons Pulse weapons of an appropriate class installed on new ships would be pretty nice.

What's really important in this thread is that I was right and I solved it.

 

[Cmdr Aeries Hunter]

Just look at the responses on this forum.
This is a new player trying out a tutorial in a newbie zone, and some of the responses are from super experienced PvP players who make fun of this person. Somone who took the time to come to the forum to give feedback on his experience. A total newbie, yet people make fun of this person. Where is this "great community" that people keep talking about?
For the record I remember the tutorial (what there was) back when I started and it was the most grueling thing for a new player to do. Fdev if you're listening you might need to dial it back a bit.

I almost quit back then, but decided to ignore the tutorial and went into the main game, where i found the combat to be way easier than the tutorial...which makes no sense at all.

I wonder how many new players over the years that might have joined the Elite community, quit at those tutorials.

 

[Thatchinho]

Yes, I just tried the gimballed beam laser and it makes taking out shields trivial, a matter of a couple seconds. No gimballed kinetic weapons are available, so it's still quite hard to keep on reticule with the multi-cannons, but at least the shields coming back on after a few seconds isn't as frustrating as it was.

So really the newbie frustration could be completely changed by giving new players gimballed weapons, or at least an obvious way for a new player to figure that out without going to the forums (e.g. an email telling you to "upgrade" your weapons to gimballed before heading out to Sharur). And of course to make gimballed multi-cannons available in the newbie zone in the first place...

Had spotted that you were using fixed weapons and was going to say that that was why you were struggling, but you’re already there.

As to your suggestion, well the thing is, all beginners do get gimballed weapons. The Sidewinder that everyone starts with has two gimballed pulse lasers. What’s actually happened in your case is that in jumping up to a bigger ship, you’ve actually made things much harder for yourself.

If you can’t get your Sidewinder or the weapons from it back, then my advice would be to just reset your account and try with the starter Sidewinder. Don’t worry about getting a bigger ship, just upgrade the sidey. Power Distributor first, then Thrusters. Power Plant if you need to. Shield after that if you want, but you’re not really going to need it for harmless opponents.

Best of luck!

 

[B.Roberts]

New player here (PC, keyboard/mouse) and I gotta say the "Harmless" combat tutorial missions in the newbie Pilot's Federation District are so frustratingly difficult they make me want to just give up this game and move on.

There is so much for a new player to learn already, shouldn't the first experience of combat be rewarding and enticing instead of rage-quit inducing?

At the very least, Harmless opponents should NOT have their shields come back online after a few seconds... Talk about kicking a new player in the teeth, over and over and over.
And after 45 minutes of trying to stay on this peon's tail chipping away hull armor 1% at a time, just when it seems I might actually get him, he just high-wake frameshifts out.

Does Frontier even want new players? Great way to drive them away...

I can feel your frustration but this is nobody's fault. We all went through that same scenario on the first day. You bought a ticket on a cruise and found yourself in the boot camp with Gunnery Sergeant Hartman instead, you somewhat overwhelmed. Take a step back and relax. Think about your last combat mission and try to change tactics. Was you having any issues with your weapons and you should concentrate on power management? Was you constantly overshooting your target and you need to concentrate on keeping your throttle in the blue zone? Maybe you want to get some HOTAS (or at least joystick) setup to have better control of your ship? You have to control your speed very carefully, you have to manage your power distribution, targeting, firing different fire groups and many other things you might need in the combat and to be honest I have no idea if it is a viable option to fly into combat on the keyboard and mouse. As hard as it is for you to believe but those NPCs, you up against at the moment, pretty lousy pilots and you just need little bit extra practice, maybe better control setup (or mapping) and you going to do just fine.

 

[babelfisch]

Just look at the responses on this forum.
This is a new player trying out a tutorial in a newbie zone, and some of the responses are from super experienced PvP players who make fun of this person. Somone who took the time to come to the forum to give feedback on his experience. A total newbie, yet people make fun of this person. Where is this "great community" that people keep talking about?
For the record I remember the tutorial (what there was) back when I started and it was the most grueling thing for a new player to do. Fdev if you're listening you might need to dial it back a bit.

I almost quit back then, but decided to ignore the tutorial and went into the main game, where i found the combat to be way easier than the tutorial...which makes no sense at all.

I wonder how many new players over the years that might have joined the Elite community, quit at those tutorials.

Well, I guess OP would've got different reactions if he asked for advice rather than claiming that Frontier tries to drive players away. On the other hand this thread got 114 replies within a few hours and most of them were rather helpful, so I guess that's the great community you are looking for.

 

[Kelster87]

Just look at the responses on this forum.
This is a new player trying out a tutorial in a newbie zone, and some of the responses are from super experienced PvP players who make fun of this person. Somone who took the time to come to the forum to give feedback on his experience. A total newbie, yet people make fun of this person. Where is this "great community" that people keep talking about?
For the record I remember the tutorial (what there was) back when I started and it was the most grueling thing for a new player to do. Fdev if you're listening you might need to dial it back a bit.

I almost quit back then, but decided to ignore the tutorial and went into the main game, where i found the combat to be way easier than the tutorial...which makes no sense at all.

I wonder how many new players over the years that might have joined the Elite community, quit at those tutorials.

They came in, after an experience we have all been through, and needlessly bashed the game and the devs. Naturally, some people got defensive. They also got a bunch of quite useful replies.

As it has been revealed, the OP got themselves in the mess by attempting to upgrade way too fast in an area with a sparse module selection. Again, I can see how this would make some defensive about the game when needlessly sprinkled with faecal matter.

 

[Kubicide]

New player here (PC, keyboard/mouse) and I gotta say the "Harmless" combat tutorial missions in the newbie Pilot's Federation District are so frustratingly difficult they make me want to just give up this game and move on.

There is so much for a new player to learn already, shouldn't the first experience of combat be rewarding and enticing instead of rage-quit inducing?

At the very least, Harmless opponents should NOT have their shields come back online after a few seconds... Talk about kicking a new player in the teeth, over and over and over.
And after 45 minutes of trying to stay on this peon's tail chipping away hull armor 1% at a time, just when it seems I might actually get him, he just high-wake frameshifts out.

Does Frontier even want new players? Great way to drive them away...

Good luck OP. You're seeing many replies from the Elite faithful telling you it's your fault, you're bad, you're to blame... This game is perfect to them. But it really isn't.

To your question, no, FDev really haven't made this game attractive to new players. And yes the NPCs are scripted to cheat because that supposedly makes them 'dangerous'. So basically, what you see is what you get in this game. It's way out of balance. It's empty. And worse of all it's fiercely defended by a fanbase that says it is essentially perfect.

Not much else can said.

 

[Rick6549]

Good luck OP. You're seeing many replies from the Elite faithful telling you it's your fault, you're bad, you're to blame... This game is perfect to them. But it really isn't.

To your question, no, FDev really haven't made this game attractive to new players. And yes the NPCs are scripted to cheat because that supposedly makes them 'dangerous'. So basically, what you see is what you get in this game. It's way out of balance. It's empty. And worse of all it's fiercely defended by a fanbase that says it is essentially perfect.

Not much else can said.

Bro imagine going onto a games official forums and finding people who like it, that would be totally insane bro

 

[Thatchinho]

Redacted

 

[galahad2069]

Guys, stop misinforming the OP saying mouse+keyboard is "difficult" or "not viable". Actually it's very viable and not particularly difficult. It's awesome even in VR if you use the mouse along with a keypad instead of the keyboard.

 

[Morbad]

I almost quit back then, but decided to ignore the tutorial and went into the main game, where i found the combat to be way easier than the tutorial...which makes no sense at all.

The challenge scenarios weren't really the core tutorial, but makes a lot of sense to prepare a CMDR for harsher than typical scenarios.

Very early on, after several attempts, I did manage to shoot down Big Mama (an Anaconda) with that fixed beam and fixed MC E rated Sidewinder after nine waves of other ships with no repair/rearm between. It was probably the most difficult PvE combat encounter I stuck around to see through for quite some time and would challenge me even now.

The simplistic AI did teach me a few bad habits that I later had to adjust, but I'd argue that, overall, this was an excellent tutorial that gave me a huge leg up when I dove into the actual game.

I'm inclined to agree that new players should have Gimballed weapons, or at least be instructed to install such weapons early on.

I disagree. I strongly feel that equipping starter ships with gimbals or encouraging new players to switch to gimbals is doing them a disservice. If someone is finding fixed weapons difficult, all the more reason they should be using them until they aren't difficult any more.

Once one has a handle on fixed weapons, then they should be encouraged to experiment with the extra options gimbals provide.

In the early game, the training sidewinder had only fixed weapons and new ships of any kind, including the starter sidewinder had a pair of fixed pulse lasers.

I spent a thousand hours with various fixed loadouts in my Viper III and didn't even use gimbals outside of a test until I was able to afford and FDL and figured out that I needed some gimbals if I were going to make my kinetics and hitscan weapons converge simultaneously.

Many of my ships today use auto-tracking weapons, not because I cannot leverage fixed weapons adequately, but because gimbals open up loadout options that otherwise would not be viable.

The idea that gimbals are the training option is, IMO, backwards and I don't recommend fitting them until one has already demonstrated competence in fixed weapons. This is the single biggest complaint I have with the new tutorials.

It's awesome even in VR if you use the mouse along with a keypad instead of the keyboard.

Or even just a normal keyboard!

 

[galahad2069]

Or even just a normal keyboard!

Sure, I only mentioned the keypad because it makes it even easier and more comfortable. At least according to my experience.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I agree that gimballed for starter ships is pants. Not because they dont "git gud" - seriously, you guys have a problem with that obsession - time on target is a viable characteristic after all - no, it's because ToT doesn't equate to proper kill time. Gimballed stuff is just to weak against the bullet sponge.