New Player Suggestion

[dtdionne]

I’ve thought about this a lot, and I really hope I can communicate it effectively.

Of my thousand or so psn friends, around 150 bought elite yet maybe 6 actually play. The reason is simple, DOCKING.

I sincerely believe that if ”it” were flip-flopped, all 150 would still be playing...hell, the docking training mission almost made me quit the game for good and I knew the game was SOOOOOOOO much more than a docking simulator.

What you should do is the following:

1. Require all new players to use a docking computer initially.
2. Implement a “manual docking” unlock or license...say 24 in game hrs played and 25 planetary landings.
3. Offer a mission payout increase incentive for completing missions docking manually...like double the mission payout reward.
4. Offer increased reputation for all factions and powers for docking manually
5. Offer a tier structure of trophies for docking manually.

The list could go on and on.

But I kid you not, that initial docking tutorial could actually have cost this epic game over half it’s potential player base.

I got into an argument with a great warframe/destiny buddy of mine just yesterday about this. He was complaining about being burned out on Warframe, D2, and Monster Hunter World and not having anything he was excited to play. Well he bought Elite like a week after it launched on PS4, blew up during the docking tutorial and swore he’d never play Elite again.

So naturally, I explained that there is a docking computer and that docking was just a teeny tiny part of the game. I even offered to share play him to a docking computer...these were his exact words “f that gd game, i didn’t buy this game to me off in the first 30 seconds”. And he still refuses to play.

And he’s not alone, my brother has two boys (8 and 11) that desperately wanted a console, but he didnt want them getting tbag’d or tbag’n anyone else in fartnite...he doesn’t want them playing PvP games yet, and I totally understand that. And their mother, she doesn’t want them playing games period.

Our dad (81) saw me playing Elite and was blown away. He told Tim (my brother) about it and they bought a PS4 and Elite that week. The idea of a space simulation game that was NOT entirely focused on PvP -AND- that could stimulate their imaginations, expand their minds about this galaxy we live in; let them actually see and experience how teeny tiny this home we call earth is; teach them about the value of working and lessons about risk and reward and on and on...there was nothing their mom could say.

So, Tim wanted to check it out first, he too was wicked excited about it...yep you guessed it, he blew up once in the docking tutorial and it ed him off to the point that he to said “f this s”. But I calmed him down, explained that there’s a docking computer, etc etc. But he was totally deflated and still ed and in a mood. He grabbed a data delivery mission, almost crashed into the sun coming out of hyperspace. Popping out right by a star ed him off, the he overshot the destination station in super cruise, ed him off even more. And he damn near blew up docking, he literally had like 6% hull left...AND...this station didn’t have a docking computer in stock. He hasn’t played the game since and neither of his boys ever played.

I tried re-explaining how much better things would be with a docking computer. I also tried explaining that while popping out of hyperspace with a star up ur ass every time was great with a fuel scoop. I also tried explaining how if you just throttle back to 75% before the timer reaches 7 secs, you coast right on in. I tried explaining about the jet cone highway, epic exploration, crazy low g planets on a 4 wheeler where hitting a rock at speed could almost send you into orbit. The only thing he could think about was how ed off docking made him.

Manually docking should be considered an advanced, seasoned maneuver that cmdrs can attempt -AFTER- unlocking with 24 in-game hours and 25 planetary landings...or something.

 

[Lestat]

The question is. How are you going to learn to dock if you don't practice? The docking computer is not going to teach you.

 

[dtdionne]

Yeah, it actually does, it helped me immensely, just watching how it approaches, seeing where the nose of the ship is oriented vertically in the mail slot...heck, I didn’t know the ships had horizontal thrusters until I saw the docking computer use em to save me from a botched approach.

And how important is manually docking anyway, really??? Is it worth the tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars in lost cosmetic sales and the hype from a gigantic player base???

And seeing that this game seriously prides itself on trying to truly simulate space travel, do you think there’s a chance in hell a station would allow pilots to dock manually, risking station dmg and senseless loss of life.

Imho, this whole manual docking thing is a left over remnant from the original 1980’s game and it’s seriously hurt this games success. THIS IS AN EPIC GAME, hands down...just epic, imho the player base should (and could easily) be 5 to 20 times larger than its ever been, across all platforms.

 

[dtdionne]

The question is. How are you going to learn to dock if you don't practice? The docking computer is not going to teach you.

BUT, thank you sooo much, Lestat, for taking the time to read this post of mine. It’s long, wordy and whinny, but it is very important to me...and it means a lot to me that you read it, despite my dikish reply to you.

 

[Lestat]

Yeah, it actually does, it helped me immensely, just watching how it approaches, seeing where the nose of the ship is oriented vertically in the mail slot...heck, I didn’t know the ships had horizontal thrusters until I saw the docking computer use em to save me from a botched approach.

I take it you did not read the manual. Which talk about the controls and what they do. Yes, we do know some new stuff is not in the manual but basic controls are still the same.

And how important is manually docking anyway, really??? Is it worth the tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars in lost cosmetic sales and the hype from a gigantic player base???

And seeing that this game seriously prides itself on trying to truly simulate space travel, do you think there’s a chance in hell a station would allow pilots to dock manually, risking station dmg and senseless loss of life.

Imho, this whole manual docking thing is a left over remnant from the original 1980’s game and it’s seriously hurt this games success. THIS IS AN EPIC GAME, hands down...just epic, imho the player base should (and could easily) be 5 to 20 times larger than its ever been, across all platforms.

So my Guess you don't know anything about smuggling, Wanted Passengers and illegal goods and Silent running.

 

[khaos526]

A better solution is that players should learn how to dock on the original Elite game from the 80's. You learn to do that, and this docking in ED you could do blindfolded while playing a fiddle at the same time...

 

[Decksmeck]

I play on the PlayStation 4. I set up my controller a different way. I'm not going to go into all the details. The main difference is that I put my forward thruster on the right trigger and I put my reverse thruster on the left trigger. Though, in order to get the left trigger working like a manual reverse thruster, I actually had to assign it to the throttle and then change a couple of settings on a throttle. So the right trigger is just manual Thruster forward and the left trigger controls the throttle in the reverse Direction but for all intents and purposes it works like a manual thruster.

I assigned the horizontal left and right thrust to button combos. So aside from that, I can thrust in all other directions with the sticks and the triggers. That allows me to land and fly much easier. Cargo scoop and the landing gear act like flaps on a plane. So if I'm landing on a planet, after I radio and get permission, I usually just lower the landing gear and then manually land.

It's all a lot easier for me with manual control over the thrusters. But I also have it set up that I can control the throttle quite easily. I have two button combos for 0%, 25%, 50%, 75%, 100% And also negative 25%, 50%, 75%. I also have one button control at the throttle. I stepped the throttle at 10% increments. I don't usually use the distributor nearly as much as I use the throttle so my arrow keys, left and right, they increase and decrease the throttle in 10% increments or decrements.

As for the problem of overshooting because you are going faster than 75%, sometimes you want to go faster than 75% when you're approaching a system. Sometimes a system is very close to the entry point near the main star. Or sometimes I just want to fly rather than use the FSS. If I slow down to 80%, I usually slow down enough that I will successfully discover and scan the system that I am passing. If I am going 90% I usually slow down some and sometimes it will scan but sometimes it won't. At 100% throttle, I will fly by the system but will experience a Slowdown. If we always went at a speed which is normally the 75% in the hopes that we would never over shoot our Target, we would also slow down for every other gravitational body to the point of entering an approach speed for those bodies. At speeds over 75%, you are guaranteed to pass the system or gravitational body in a more timely manner.

I hope you get my meaning. It's kind of hard to describe with my limited writing skills.

 

[Kenpachi85]

If people have issues docking there's no reason they can't just use a docking computer they are really cheap, only take 1 slot and are available pretty much everywhere. I had issues for maybe the first 5 minutes after I started playing but that was most likely from me getting used to all the controls. Docking is not that hard with a little practice and most that have trouble with it are probably having speed control issues. Easy way to solve that is to take all pips out of the engines and deploy your landing gear. That usually keeps you from going too fast or changing speed dramatically while landing. I have every ship in the game(besides the cobra mk4 since I'm on ps4) and the only ship that I have a DC on is my beluga. And that's just because I dont have much fly time in it yet and its fat derriere has trouble making it through the mail slot.

 

[dtdionne]

Sure, all great points, smuggling, silent running, slaves, criminal passengers, etc. And you pegged me correct Lestat, I did not read the manual...I can be a real piece of work, no doubt.

So here’s what I know, see and feel. And please forgive me for being a jerk, I’ve got a lot of flaws that can and do work together to make me an even bigger jerk...I’m sorry.

1. Elite Dangerous (ED) is the single most epic game I’ve ever played, it’s amazing.
2. Hundreds of PSN friends purchased ED, but less than a handful have actually gone on to really play.
3. I ran across an ED ad (PC and maybe xbox) about a year and a half before it was released for the PlayStation (PS). I bought the PC version, but my laptop just wasn’t strong enough. But I fell in love with it immediately and sent emails asking if a PS port was planned...and they said yes. So I was thrilled and watched tons of YouTube footage...and I can honestly say that I don’t recall hearing about docking, at all. At that time, the primary gold rush videos were that inter-system passenger super cruise in Quince. The stacking massacre, surface scan, and slimmer missions, also in Quince (and other places) were also well documented on YouTube. I wasn’t keen on the idea of carting people around so I didn’t really watch those videos. I did like how the surface scans missions looked so i did watch those videos, right before ED launched for PS...and they didn’t mention anything about docking. My point is that I had a good idea of what I wanted to do in game before it was released for PS, and I was super excited. But the docking tutorial came out of nowhere and crushed me, it was a complete surprise...but watching videos for year prior, and not hearing anything memorable about docking, I knew there was much more to the game, so I just powered through it. But it really impacted me and bummed me out, and I’m not exaggerating, I promise.*
4. Frontier must be in this to make money, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. I believe they should be making much more and deserve much more than they’re currently making.

I really do believe the docking tutorial is spooking and running so many customers off. I think people see the games brilliant and accurate marketing and buy the game totally excited. Then I think they get blindsided by the docking tutorial and this sours 60 - 75% of these customers before they ever really get going. They feel duped by world class marketing and unjustly lump ED in with other games that do actually do this. And from what I’ve seen, first hand, these customers are extremely unlikely to ever again give ED another thought. Not only is this not good, it’s also totally unfair...ED IS EVERYTHING the marketing claims and MUCH MORE.

So, wanting every single employee of Frontier to make tons more money -and- get the praise and recognition they deserve for the world class effort they’ve put into this world class game...if I had a magic wand, I would make docking computers mandatory for all new commanders, until such a time that they form the correct and accurate impression of this EPIC GAME, making them customers for life...customers very willing to continue spending money.

*Im so sorry this is unbearably long...and I think I just obscured my point even more.

 

[dtdionne]

It just breaks my heart to see ED lose so many customers, unjustly. I guess that’s what it ultimately boils down to for me.

And I believe the fix for this is incredibly easy.

 

[Decksmeck]

It just breaks my heart to see ED lose so many customers, unjustly. I guess that’s what it ultimately boils down to for me.

And I believe the fix for this is incredibly easy.

I think I get the flavor of Ed in that it wants to start you off like a toddler learning to fly a spaceship. You are probably right though in general. A docking computer probably should be standard on a sidewinder. It doesn't help you get out of the station though. That would still be a problem.

 

[dtdionne]

I think I get the flavor of Ed in that it wants to start you off like a toddler learning to fly a spaceship. You are probably right though in general. A docking computer probably should be standard on a sidewinder. It doesn't help you get out of the station though. That would still be a problem.

Right, that is what I’m trying to say. As it is now, it seems like a lose/lose. Everything about the game is foreign and stressful for a brand new commander. And adding manual docking increases this stress exponentially. It’s like an overload, and in that moment ED loses a customer; and the customer loses what would otherwise be an ABSOLUTELY EPIC EXPERIENCE that would last for years.

Initially I found leaving a station exponentially less stressful and easier (in a small ship) than manually docking.

I wish soooo so much that they’d add a docking computer to everyone’s starter ship...and if they didn’t see a massive, positive player-base increase, revert back to no starter docking computer.

They’d have to script an alternate docking tutorial to teach how to use the docking computer...I can almost feel how much more confident new commanders would feel.

Anyway, thx for listening and sorry for the sprawling length

 

[Lestat]

Sure, all great points, smuggling, silent running, slaves, criminal passengers, etc. And you pegged me correct Lestat, I did not read the manual...I can be a real piece of work, no doubt.

See that could be a factor in learning this game.

So here’s what I know, see and feel. And please forgive me for being a jerk, I’ve got a lot of flaws that can and do work together to make me an even bigger jerk...I’m sorry.

It happens.

Elite Dangerous (ED) is the single most epic game I’ve ever played, it’s amazing.

I agree with you.

Hundreds of PSN friends purchased ED, but less than a handful have actually gone on to really play.

I think a lot of PSN get frustrated is because of their controllers. The best idea is to send them to Newcomers: Questions, Guides & Tutorials. Let them ask their questions. So people in the same platform can help them better than asking for docking computer. We also have to understand some people Elite Dangerous is not their cup tea. I have been playing Elite for 35 years.

I ran across an ED ad (PC and maybe xbox) about a year and a half before it was released for the PlayStation (PS). I bought the PC version, but my laptop just wasn’t strong enough. But I fell in love with it immediately and sent emails asking if a PS port was planned...and they said yes. So I was thrilled and watched tons of YouTube footage...and I can honestly say that I don’t recall hearing about docking, at all. At that time, the primary gold rush videos were that inter-system passenger super cruise in Quince. The stacking massacre, surface scan, and slimmer missions, also in Quince (and other places) were also well documented on YouTube. I wasn’t keen on the idea of carting people around so I didn’t really watch those videos. I did like how the surface scans missions looked so i did watch those videos, right before ED launched for PS...and they didn’t mention anything about docking. My point is that I had a good idea of what I wanted to do in game before it was released for PS, and I was super excited. But the docking tutorial came out of nowhere and crushed me, it was a complete surprise...but watching videos for year prior, and not hearing anything memorable about docking, I knew there was much more to the game, so I just powered through it. But it really impacted me and bummed me out, and I’m not exaggerating, I promise.*

I think you missing out not running on the PC. Stuff like Voice Attack, Different controllers stuff like VR controllers. My current laptop running mostly at 120 fps at max res. Running Tobi Eye tracker built into the laptop. Also running Dual Flight sticks Saltek st290 Pro and Saitek x52 Pro. and Voice Attack With Willam Shatner and Saving up for the Oculus Rift S.

Frontier must be in this to make money, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. I believe they should be making much more and deserve much more than they’re currently making.

Well they are making money with the Paint jobs and such and players like me who paid for 3 accounts.

I really do believe the docking tutorial is spooking and running so many customers off. I think people see the games brilliant and accurate marketing and buy the game totally excited. Then I think they get blindsided by the docking tutorial and this sours 60 - 75% of these customers before they ever really get going. They feel duped by world class marketing and unjustly lump ED in with other games that do actually do this. And from what I’ve seen, first hand, these customers are extremely unlikely to ever again give ED another thought. Not only is this not good, it’s also totally unfair...ED IS EVERYTHING the marketing claims and MUCH MORE.

This comes back to Newcomers: Questions, Guides & Tutorials. They are here to help new players learn parts of the game. If you invite a player and they are having issues. They would be the ones that can help you.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forums/elite-dangerous-newcomers-guides-tutorials/post-thread


So, wanting every single employee of Frontier to make tons more money -and- get the praise and recognition they deserve for the world class effort they’ve put into this world class game...if I had a magic wand, I would make docking computers mandatory for all new commanders, until such a time that they form the correct and accurate impression of this EPIC GAME, making them customers for life...customers very willing to continue spending money.

*Im so sorry this is unbearably long...and I think I just obscured my point even more.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

The major issue on whether this game makes or breaks interest in a new player is the learning curve.
Elite Dangerous is a scientifically realistic game which means that more than half the people that attempt the game are going to have problems in their initial hours depending on their overall "wisdom" and mental "flexibility"

People in older age groups as the OP has indicated will undoubtedly have more issues with the learning curve as their mental "flexibility" will not be as potent as those in younger age groups where more information might be considered "Common" than what the previous generation had access too.
Edit: it should be noted that this is more of a generalization and not necessarily a reflection of everyone in said age group as there are those who have retained their mental accuity over the years.

However there are individuals in the more "seasoned" age group that have retained their mental flexibilty and people in the younger age group who, dispite having access to significant information, may not be as mentally flexible.

I consider myself an intelligent individual but it would be arrogant of me to say that I did not encounter issues in learning the game initially.

The ammount of things you need understand about the game might be equivalent to the course of a college class in a certian light. And the sheer volume of information the game throws at you can absolutely be daunting.

Not everyone is going to be able to pick up the game as easily as everyone else, and similarly not everyone is going to have as difficult of a time with the game as everyone else.

So going back to the initial point, this game is highly complex and the docking computer serves as a handicap for those that need additional time to absorb the workings of the environment the game presents.

There are definitely other things that could potentially be done to make the game more newcomer friendly like highlighting areas of the hud or presenting tips untill the player reaches pilots rank 2 or 3 as they play.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Docking only took me 2 attempts to figure out.

Admittedly the first attempt had me attempt to "pause" the game, which you can't btw, while I googled how to find the entrance. Lol

Second attempt I just bounced around a lot.

By the third attempt, I was fine.

Now, after possibly 10s of thousands of landings, I can usually just boost through the slot, in any ship, and find my pad without any hassle.


Forcing docking computers on to players is unnecessary, you'll never learn if you don't try.
And if docking is the most infuriating thing you, your friends and have family come across so far, then I'm afraid you're not going to enjoy quite a few parts of this game! Lol

 

[Zieman]

I got into an argument with a great warframe/destiny buddy of mine just yesterday about this. He was complaining about being burned out on Warframe, D2, and Monster Hunter World and not having anything he was excited to play. Well he bought Elite like a week after it launched on PS4, blew up during the docking tutorial and swore he’d never play Elite again.

So naturally, I explained that there is a docking computer and that docking was just a teeny tiny part of the game. I even offered to share play him to a docking computer...these were his exact words “f that gd game, i didn’t buy this game to **** me off in the first 30 seconds”. And he still refuses to play.

So, your buddy refuses to make another try, is unwilling to learn things, and somehow it is the game that is in fault?

 

[Lestat]

people in older age groups as the OP has indicated will undoubtedly have more issues with the learning curve as their mental "flexibility" will not be as potent as those in younger age groups where more information might be considered "Common" than what the previous generation had access too.

Well I am 46 and my brother is 50 and my dad I think can handle this game in his late 70's

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

Well I am 46 and my brother is 50 and my dad I think can handle this game in his late 70's

sorry, it was more of a generalization, as I said people of the younger age groups can face similar difficulties. Infact I know a few people of the higher age groups that have retained their acuity over the years.
My intention wasnt to offend. Although I can see how that might have with the way I worded it as it appears that I am grouping everyone of that age group rather than clarifying that it was more in general.

 

[MoonRacer]

I think, it is more than just learning the game. It may have a rather steep learning curve, but there is more.

My brother for example, would never even consider this game, and he plays a lot of games, some of them I would never touch. But ED - after I described it to him and explained how it worked - he would never want to play. Why? Not because he would have to learn how to dock, how to fly and fight, and so on. The game is too complicated for him. This is not meant in a demeaning way, but many people love simple games with clear directives what to do. If there are built in problems, quests and riddles they happily try to solve them, but the completely open world with no clear directives, quests and so on - not everybody likes that. My brother loves to play 'adventure' games with riddles to solve - I would rather not.

I remember Morrowind, this was - for me - one of the best CRPGs I ever played! Why? Because you did not know what to do, you would have to find the meaning and the background. And nobody led you on your hand to quests. You just had to survive, and so found step for step what was going on. It is not by chance that my brother - hated this game. We are different in this way. He likes to solve riddles or problems on his own, but he does not like if he first is expected to find out, what is going on.

To your comments about docking: When I started the game and tried to do the tutorials, I had no big problems with docking. I do not know why, I had read and watched YT videos a lot before buying the game, maybe that helped. Also the other tutorials I found rather easy, except that some of the tutorials have small problems. I had the usual problem with the first combat tutorial - but all here seem to have had problems with this.

So what I want to say: A player who is turned off the game from a docking tutorial, who never even tries to do this short tutorial several times to learn it is probably a player who will not be happy with ED. Not meant in any demeaning way! It is not dexterity or some other thing, it is just a matter of taste. ED is in many ways a great game, but it is technical, complicated and you have to find your own way to do things right. Some people do not want this in a game. Others love it. It is just a matter of taste...

 

[Kzak]

For those that have trouble getting through the mail slot (sometimes a problem with bigger ships for newer players), there could be an option to turn on/off a holographic display of the ship's position relative to the mailslot (same style as the holographic display of the ship's position when landing at a pad)?