New players being explointed by carrier owners?

[CNC drill press]

That's not even close to 'exploitation', but enough other Cmdrs have chimed in to point that out, so here's an example of proper carrier exploitation...

Park carrier at 'Kirre's Icebox' (or whatever the mining cult is calling it), announce jump to system buying LTDs for 1.7mcr, jump 500ly away from the bubble, jump another 500ly... demand payment in LTDs for return.

Woah, easy there satan

Those with out FC face a 712 ly round trip to sell station and return if they don't use a FC today and you only get 1.3mill if you use a small ship for LTD...
A 712ly round trip or ride a Fc there and back or sell to FC...
or
Go do painite2 mining instead... with 200Ly round trip...
Its a choice which one do you take...

And other day it was 1.7 mil 88 Ly away.

Wow. Just wow. I don't even know where to start.

Yet again, here we have a specimen who cares how much or little someone else in a game earns. I mean... Wow. Get a life.

Im missing "facepalm" reaction

 

[CNC drill press]

So what is the exploitation here?

If we replaced the player owned Fleet Carrier with NPC Fleet Carrier, and had the same situation, then would it change anything? would it be less exploitative of players if NPC's did that?


Anyway, the miners have a choice, is the lower price at the Fleet Carriers worth it, or should the miner fly back and forth between the mining site to sell at a higher profit? how does the earning per hour look in each scenario? Jumping some 450 LY to sell and then another 450 LY back to mine some more , that is some 15 jumps in each direction, and since we are talking about so many jumps, you will also need a fuel scoop, so that is even less cargo/mining gear. or hitch a ride with a carrier back and forth. So we talking about some 30+ minutes of just jumping back and forth, and that is not taking into account time to fuel scoop. How much could you earn in that time frame if you instead mined that time instead and selling at a lower price? You might get away without needing a fuel scoop, but then you need dock to refuel ad that takes time that too... and we assume you are super efficient in the jumping. so if you are slow and fuel scooping all the time, then I think we are looking at 2+ minutes per jump, and now you would be spending over 1 hour flying back and forth... so that starts the question what is the most boring activity mining or jumping/fuel scooping?

I think I've said it in opening post but let me rephrase it: Newbie not being aware [1] about price he could get if went in a carrier or flew himself therfore selling LTD to carrier resulting in carrier owner getting 2x more credits than miner despite doing literaly nothing (except jumping to mining site which i guess is tricky).
Obviously, it wouldnt be exploit when NPC carrier/staion would be involved as noone is gaining anything here.

This thread was inspired by visit in mining site when selling system was 88ly away. Currently it is 185 Ly so Your example with 450Ly is anecdotal argument.
2x450 = 900Ly = 30 jumps -> 2x185 = 12 jumps. Then we get ~15 mins? Lets make it 20 mins. to TRIPLE outcome of mining for 1-2 hours.
Even if travel would take 1 hour - we are still taking about TRIPLING effectiveness of Your 1h activity.


[1] - Orodriun given most sensible argument, IMO, saying that if player googled mining gold rush and knows LTD3 location, he/she will most likely know maxiumum price. But I was just answering to Your question.

 

[Schmack]

Nice try? My intention wasnt trolling or anything. Although i guess thats what troll would say (well troll would write short post and kept quited, afaik).

Obviously people would go higher - capitalism would happen. But does price being limited by frontier automagically excuse carrier owners to take advantage over newbs?

No.

It's much more immersive than using a 3rd party META app to min/max farm LTDs. Said newbie getting 500K for a single ton of LTD is about as good as they can hope for, because they sure as hell won't find that 1.7m payout magically. They'll sell to the local station that might not even pay 500K. Also, I doubt said newbie really knows much about farming LTDs and even if they figured it out, they wouldn't have done so without also realizing the value.

 

[Pristine_Bump]

not likely to have 30ly jump either

 

[TiberiusDuval]

It is not exploit. And OP forgets added risks especially for newbies. Pirates, both NPC and human like valuable cargo very much. More you need to travel bigger the chance meeting friendly local pirate.

 

[Schmack]

And me. Call me weird, but fuel and repair prices are so stupidly cheap that I will purposefully visit a FC with a high tariff for the realism of a realistic price, along with the knowledge that I'm actually participating in a player-based economy. So all you high-tariff FC owners, raise your hands!

I tried this yesterday and went through several carriers that didn't allow docking. I wish there was a way to filter those out. Why do I need to see every single carrier in the system if they do nothing for me?

 

[Old Duck]

I tried this yesterday and went through several carriers that didn't allow docking. I wish there was a way to filter those out. Why do I need to see every single carrier in the system if they do nothing for me?

The undockable ones have an X in the middle of the carrier icon.

 

[Schmack]

The undockable ones have an X in the middle of the carrier icon.

I learn something new every day. Thanks.

 

[Dolurrh]

I'm wondering, what forum members think about dozen of carriers buying LTD for 500k in New Borann.
I've flew yesterday to both mining system and system that was buying LTD for 1.7mln.
Apparently there were a lot of carrier jumps, ppl were anouncing departure and saw multiple messages like "welocme to ocellus something, jump has been concluded, thank you for using our services" then followed by lot of "thank you" from miners that got carrier to selling system.

Which is nice. Game felt very much alive.

But:
1) also there was player who said "wohoo 120 mil, I'm rich!" Which suggest some new players are hanging around. I guess new players keep buying game + we got update recently + game was on discount.
2) Few carrier owners were happy because they sold LTD they bought from miners, I remember one of they said he/she sold 3k of LTD (I remember such statement, obviously i find it hard to believe), others metnioned some other figures.

I find it hard to believe that player being aware of true price of LTD decided to sell stuff for 3x cheaper than possible despite fact that carriers were constantly leaving mining site, and they were anouncing "heyy come with me, carrier XYZ jumpin in 15 mins to selling system". And if they are not aware then its exploiting new players ignorance. Which is nothing new given what is happening in deciat, but this is extra sad since its the richest cmdrs in galaxy (they own damn carriers!) who seek to get even more at other's expense.

Do you think the same?

Obviously it would be best if fdevs would simply remove this silly, stupid and artificial cap on price.

Considering how prior to the last patch you could fill a Python in about thirty minutes, someone without an engineered ship might not even have made such a bad deal.

I agree however, id LOVE to offer 1.2m per ton to people, Alas the maximum price caps out at around 570k.
Which is why they offer so little, its simply as high as the game allows them to go.

 

[Old Duck]

I agree however, id LOVE to offer 1.2m per ton to people, Alas the maximum price caps out at around 570k.
Which is why they offer so little, its simply as high as the game allows them to go.

I also agree with this. Make the cap equal to the top selling price of the regular markets. Frontier often throws the baby out with the exploit bath water.

 

[Greasetrap42]

Nice try? My intention wasnt trolling or anything.

Your thread title says carrier owners are exploiting new players.
(Is your title asking or stating? Looks like a statement phrased as a rhetorical question to me)

 

[[VR] Orodruin]

Considering how prior to the last patch you could fill a Python in about thirty minutes

I fill my Python (192+6) in about 30 minutes post-patch without using the respawn exploit. Pre-patch my record was 16m10s (as measured by the mining analyzer tool). But then again, I doubt I can label myself a newbie miner anymore ...

 

[CNC drill press]

Your thread title says carrier owners are exploiting new players.
(Is your title asking or stating? Looks like a statement phrased as a rhetorical question to me)

It was genuine question. I must admit, initially I was kinda disgusted with this situation but noticed that noone else complaied - therefore I wanted to know how other ppl think about it.

Considering how prior to the last patch you could fill a Python in about thirty minutes, someone without an engineered ship might not even have made such a bad deal.

I agree however, id LOVE to offer 1.2m per ton to people, Alas the maximum price caps out at around 570k.
Which is why they offer so little, its simply as high as the game allows them to go.

I fill my Python (192+6) in about 30 minutes post-patch without using the respawn exploit. Pre-patch my record was 16m10s (as measured by the mining analyzer tool). But then again, I doubt I can label myself a newbie miner anymore ...

Whoa. When considering all of this, i have been using ballpark figure of 1-2h when filling 196t mining conda (surely not minmaxed for mining + borann chat was hard to resist : D)

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I'm wondering, what forum members think about dozen of carriers buying LTD for 500k in New Borann.
I've flew yesterday to both mining system and system that was buying LTD for 1.7mln.
Apparently there were a lot of carrier jumps, ppl were anouncing departure and saw multiple messages like "welocme to ocellus something, jump has been concluded, thank you for using our services" then followed by lot of "thank you" from miners that got carrier to selling system.

Which is nice. Game felt very much alive.

But:
1) also there was player who said "wohoo 120 mil, I'm rich!" Which suggest some new players are hanging around. I guess new players keep buying game + we got update recently + game was on discount.
2) Few carrier owners were happy because they sold LTD they bought from miners, I remember one of they said he/she sold 3k of LTD (I remember such statement, obviously i find it hard to believe), others metnioned some other figures.

I find it hard to believe that player being aware of true price of LTD decided to sell stuff for 3x cheaper than possible despite fact that carriers were constantly leaving mining site, and they were anouncing "heyy come with me, carrier XYZ jumpin in 15 mins to selling system". And if they are not aware then its exploiting new players ignorance. Which is nothing new given what is happening in deciat, but this is extra sad since its the richest cmdrs in galaxy (they own damn carriers!) who seek to get even more at other's expense.

Do you think the same?

Obviously it would be best if fdevs would simply remove this silly, stupid and artificial cap on price.

It's called capitalism. Don't see the issue.

 

[Dolurrh]

Whoa. When considering all of this, i have been using ballpark figure of 1-2h when filling 196t mining conda (surely not minmaxed for mining + borann chat was hard to resist : D)

Conda is too big and slow for the job, the trick is to boost over the asteroid field and only pick the cherries.
Python does it exceptionally well. and with 192t of cargo has enough storage to warrant even extended trips w/o a carrier.

 

[CNC drill press]

Conda is too big and slow for the job, the trick is to boost over the asteroid field and only pick the cherries.
Python does it exceptionally well. and with 192t of cargo has enough storage to warrant even extended trips w/o a carrier.

Mind that was ship used for borann mining - so laser mining only, without carriers so it had to be optimized to quickly travel to selling system and back.
I must admit i havent tried mining after carrier update. I've got enough during borann rush.

 

[[VR] Orodruin]

Mind that was ship used for borann mining - so laser mining only, without carriers so it had to be optimized to quickly travel to selling system and back.
I must admit i havent tried mining after carrier update. I've got enough during borann rush.

Mining rates increased with the buff of subsurface mining in the fleet carrier patch. Then LTD mining - particularly subsurface - got a small debuff because it was crazy. Even for laser mining, the new LTD3 is better than Borann was - also post nerf.

In Borann, I was doing 230-240 tons/hour (unmapped) both in a Python and a Cutter.

 

[Rakmarok]

Also - it is Kirre’s Icebox - not New Borann.

Thank you. I keep regurgitating that on Reddit ad infinitum.