New to BGS, a few questions

[Charonys]

Hi, I'm completely new to BGS (and to the game for that matter) and I'm currently trying to wrap my head around this mechanic. I have been looking through a few guides but haven't found an answer to my questions so far (might have missed the information though) - maybe someone can help me out?

1) There are different types of government: is it possible to change a faction's government type e.g. from democracy to corporation? Or are these set in stone? If it can be changed, how can it be done?

2) If I want to create my own faction, how do I get started? I know one can ask Frontier to add it, but other than that, what are some basic first steps? Are there any in-game requirements that have to be met?

3) With systems far away from the bubble that do have outposts and thus a few minor factions, how would I introduce a new faction to those systems, especially if the faction of my choice is far away? Expansion seems limited - but the factions out there in the void got there as well somehow, right?

4) With my own custom player faction (or any faction for that matter), how do I expand into regions of space that do not have any infrastructure? How can I claim such distant systems and/or push the construction of outposts/stations in systems that are currently not populated?

5) What are the chances to get stations built in systems without any planets? How would I approach this?

I'm aware that most of these will depend on Frontier's decision making, but what I'm trying to understand is what I have to do as a player (group) to convince Frontier that my expansion makes sense? Is it all about making a good case why I think a certain system should become more relevant - or are there any in-game actions I can take to make a convincing case?

 

[Factabulous]

1) No

2) Look at the PMG creation form

3) You cannot - see (2)

4) You cannot

5) Ask frontier. They will say no.

 

[Eliza]

No Offense intended...
To be honest, Elite is about One Commander in a Spaceship struggeling to life the daily live in a galaxy that is torn apart by political struggels. This is not EvE Online.

You can adopt a Minor Faction of your likings and push them to glory, if you dare, but never expect to become "The Master of all Humans" (exaggerating)

 

[Jmanis]

Just to add a clarifying point, since you're new and all, and something something get off my lawn

You can request FD add a faction to the game. This does not, however, make it "Your Faction" other than whatever FD notes from your request.

You can create a Squadron, let your mates join, pledge allegiance to that faction and do all your work for that faction, but nonetheless, the faction remains entirely comprised of NPCs who will act (and react) no differently to you or any other player in the game, nor does it afford you any particular "special privilege" with that faction. And just to be explicit, Squadrons != Factions.

Other than that, like Fact said, go over the the Player Group part of the forum for info on having a faction added to the game.

 

[Charonys]

Thank you for clarifying. I'm not really expecting EVE type impact, though my initial read on BGS did seem to portray a more interesting mechanic than these answers suggest.

Maybe I have failed communicating my thoughts properly, so here is an example that may give more context regarding my questions:

Wregoe XQ-L c21-29 is a system controlled by Zende Partners and as far as I can tell, it's the only faction in that system.

From my current understanding, if there was such a system with a single faction (or more, doesn't matter?) within the bubble, I could support another faction (that currently is not represented in that system) to expand into that system; and if I continue to work for that new faction, over time Zende Partners' influence would be reduced.

The replies suggest that something like this can't happen in Wregoe XQ-L c21-29 - but why? Is it because Wregoe XQ-L c21-29 is too far away from the bubble? Is this mechanic limited to the bubble only? If that's the case, supporting any factions outside of the bubble seems like a waste of time and one should focus on "bubble politics" only?

Does this also mean, the bubble will never grow due to player actions because FD is making all the decisions regarding non-bubble systems?

 

[Factabulous]

The replies suggest that something like this can't happen in Wregoe XQ-L c21-29 - but why? Is it because Wregoe XQ-L c21-29 is too far away from the bubble? Is this mechanic limited to the bubble only? If that's the case, supporting any factions outside of the bubble seems like a waste of time and one should focus on "bubble politics" only?

There are pinned threads that have information about the BGS. They can answer most of teh basic BGS questions.

Does this also mean, the bubble will never grow due to player actions because FD is making all the decisions regarding non-bubble systems?

Yes

 

[Walter2]

Why not give yourself a trial at BGS work before committing yourself to creating a faction?

Find a system that has no player-controlled faction - not always easy as some factions are player-supported - and pick a faction that has an allegiance and ethos that you can identify with. You can give this faction management advice for as long as you like, even to the point where introducing your faction loses appeal and you invest all your time with your chosen party. And, of course, you can leave at any time without leaving behind unsupported clutter.

Or you could adopt any of the player factions that no longer receive any love.

 

[Factabulous]

Why not give yourself a trial at BGS work before committing yourself to creating a faction?

Find a system that has no player-controlled faction - not always easy as some factions are player-supported - and pick a faction that has an allegiance and ethos that you can identify with. You can give this faction management advice for as long as you like, even to the point where introducing your faction loses appeal and you invest all your time with your chosen party. And, of course, you can leave at any time without leaving behind unsupported clutter.

Or you could adopt any of the player factions that no longer receive any love.

They should probably add that to the PMF submission form "give the name of a faction that you have recently expanded into a new system and gained control over at least 1 base". It would give people an idea what they are signing up for and cut down on the power crazies who just want their names in lights.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

The replies suggest that something like this can't happen in Wregoe XQ-L c21-29 - but why? Is it because Wregoe XQ-L c21-29 is too far away from the bubble? Is this mechanic limited to the bubble only? If that's the case, supporting any factions outside of the bubble seems like a waste of time and one should focus on "bubble politics" only?

Yes - the maximum range of an expansion, in ideal circumstances, is just under 70 LY, and usually much lower. There's no specific rule of "bubble only" but most deep space systems outside a few nebulae (Colonia, Pleiades, Witch Head [1]) are much further apart than that.

Whether that makes isolated systems a waste of time depends on what your goals of BGS involvement are. Most of them - Zende Partners is an exceptional case for story reasons - have at least a few factions present who can theoretically fight for dominance of that system, for example.

[1] Witch Head is basically immune to all political BGS effects for story reasons. Pleiades and Colonia have active BGS but you will need to be able to overcome established powers to do anything out there.

 

[Charonys]

Thanks, this basically answers my questions. I'll be trying to support existing factions in any case for now - I was just wondering what the limitations are.

 

[Walter2]

They should probably add that to the PMF submission form "give the name of a faction that you have recently expanded into a new system and gained control over at least 1 base". It would give people an idea what they are signing up for and cut down on the power crazies who just want their names in lights.

It was a poor decision that FD made - at least from the point of view of many players - when they decided to no longer allow players to formally adopt NPC factions (not that it makes any real difference, as Jmanis has pointed out). Presumably they had their reasons.
I know of one NPC faction that has been supported by three unrelated groups over the years; it's now in 33 systems and controls 18, but support appears to be fading again.

 

[Jmanis]

It was a poor decision that FD made - at least from the point of view of many players - when they decided to no longer allow players to formally adopt NPC factions (not that it makes any real difference, as Jmanis has pointed out). Presumably they had their reasons.
I know of one NPC faction that has been supported by three unrelated groups over the years; it's now in 33 systems and controls 18, but support appears to be fading again.

Perhaps a controversial view, but I kinda think it was a poor decision from FD to facilitate player-submitted factions (and player-submitted CGs, and player-submitted Galnet articles, but I digress...).

When they first announced these things, this was pretty much my reaction:

My immediate concerns for FD were:

• How are they going to stop a player submission changing a lore-based system or some other key terrain or special effect?
• How are they going to deconflict with other players?
• (on player CGs) How are they going to stop player-CGs giving an advantage to the supported faction?

Answer is, they didn't, and we saw plenty of scenarios where rare goods disappeared, factions took over permit-locked systems, and key lore systems suddenly had complete power shifts. They've introduced some ground rules, but even today, it's pretty clear that FD's idea about the BGS is very different to most players.

I think FD see the BGS as kinda like how (on Earth) we see the sky. Everyone can see it, it is usually blue, maybe has varying amounts of clouds, but occasionally the whole thing turns shades of yellow, red, black/grey, and even turns into the night sky. And we (people), are powerless to change that. We can change it slightly though... we can do skywriting in planes, cause pollution, put sateliites in the sky, which can create some localised and perhaps temporary changes, but it doesn't change the sky's usual behaviours. And that makes our experience of the sky indirect and mostly uncontrollable, and occasionally we pass it and go "huh, that's cool" when there's something different.

Giving players the ability to insert factions/CGs/Galnet gave them agency over that sky... that is... now imagine that you're walking down the street, and suddenly the sky changes from blue to orange... then decide "Oh I don't like that", click your fingers and it's now green. You have direct control over the sky. But I think FD expected people to still interact with the sky indirectly... to just look at it when it randomly and suddenly changes colour and just go "yeah that's cool"... not to actually try and fight for control over it... and that's why things like UA Bombing and Lockdown annoy people, because it's someone asserting direct control over the BGS and, to continue the analogy, "Change the colour of the sky suddenly to something undesirable".

Player Factions, CGs and Galnet articles make perfect sense in a galaxy where our interest in the BGS is passing and indirect, and I think FD genuinely felt that these options were just letting players "... introduce their own little piece of fluff to the galaxy"... whereas most wonts of the BGS are really aimed towards changing the colour of the sky at-will.

 

[Sapyx]

But to address the questions in the OP:

1. The way the BGS is set up, changing a government type is actually rather hard. When you found a player-made faction, you get to pick the government type, but once you pick it, it's set in stone and FD have declared they will not change it, for any reason.

2. Answered by others above.

3. The deep space outposts were hand-made and hand-placed by FDev, and the factions therein were also hand-placed. They might have names that appear or imply that they are player-made factions (because they're different to the standard procedurally-generated names), but in 99% of cases, they're not - they're just names made up by FD. Some PMFs got themselves inserted into remote starports before the ban on doing so; they probably regret doing this now.

4. While there were, originally, plans to have some dynamic effects of the BGS in terms of controlling system population and colonizing empty star systems, this has not been implemented - whether it's been put in the "too hard" basket, or it's simply something they've had second thoughts about, we cannot say, because there's been no mention of this from the devs for a couple of years.

5. There are a few stations within the bubble that have been built in systems with no planets. Some of those stations - such as the ones in the Pareco system - are orbiting an as-yet-invisible comet. Others are orbiting the star directly. SO there's nothing froma technical point of view to prevent it from happening. But FD's manually-created colonization efforts are generally quite slow; there's no shortage of colonizable star systems that are much more friendly than that.

 

[Charonys]

Thank you for additional in-depth replies, I really appreciate it. I think I have a much better understanding now of what BGS is and what it isn't.

To be honest, I really do care about leaving some sort of footprint - but not on a massive scale like dominating hundreds of systems. I'd much rather be able to slowly work towards colonization, creating a small outpost somewhere that gives players a place to rest before heading out further into the void. Or make a place more interesting than it is now by improving the infrastructure or offering better services - all through actual hard work like hauling resources, fighting pirates, etc.

From my perspective, these are things that would happen in the real world as well; people trying to expand into unoccupied space not just for the resources but also to expand the galactic infrastructure and provide a number of very needed services close to regions of space that are interesting for various reasons.

So when I read about BGS I assumed it would offer some sort of dynamic interaction with the universe that would allow me to do these things, at least in a limited manner. But I guess I got too hyped about it before reading most of the guides, and when I started reading I was confused, hence my questions.

I actually might just let this go for a while and focus on other content. While BGS sounds interesting as is, I'm not sure I'd enjoy the limitations. It would have been really cool to heavily invest in a particular minor faction and increase their influence in systems outside of the bubble (in already populated systems) and bring a dormant outpost to life, creating a more vibrant mission/trading hub for other players.

 

[DNA-Decay]

I really do care about leaving some sort of footprint.

That seems pretty reasonable.

I think JManis overstates the case against player agency.

There was a time when player submitted CGs and Gal Net were pushing the story forward. For me a lot of the real interst in Elite is the interaction between player groups.
I've been involved in long term large scale wars to control territory. I've been involved with long term directed expansions that have targeted lore important systems.

I agree that PMFs should not be handed a Lore or Rares system as their start point, but if you can expand there and win the system, that's fair game.

 

[Jmanis]

That seems pretty reasonable.

I think JManis overstates the case against player agency.

There was a time when player submitted CGs and Gal Net were pushing the story forward. For me a lot of the real interst in Elite is the interaction between player groups.
I've been involved in long term large scale wars to control territory. I've been involved with long term directed expansions that have targeted lore important systems.

I agree that PMFs should not be handed a Lore or Rares system as their start point, but if you can expand there and win the system, that's fair game.

Yeah that's fair. Reality is my opinions are informed by how the game works, and what FD does.

The by- product of this is i have a bipolar[1] opinion of the BGS in that it's either:

• Totally background setting, and players simply shouldn't care of their favorite system gets put into lockdown; that's all part of the experience; or
• everything in the bgs needs to be balanced and fair, enabling player-group competitive gameplay.

Former is entirely compatible with player galnet and cgs, and is the bgs FD (arguably) promote. The latter is entirely incompatible with player cgs and galnet, and is what a subset of players seek. I personally prefer the concept of the BGS as the former one.

[1] the literal term, e.g the earth is bipolar; it has a north and south pole that are the two magnetic extremes.