New update?

[mr.sugar]

Again, assumptions and no facts to back anything up with. 90% based of what?

The whole point with a standard is that it has one meaning/definition, clearly specify something. Otherwise it would not be a standard, it would be an assumption based on a feeling. How on earth would any gaming developer know what the players "MUST HAVE/REQUIRES" for any game in any genera without it being written down, if they also risked being flamed for not putting in everything in said game? You have to come up with a much better argument than this for your so called "standards" that EVERYONE knows and EXPECTS. This is grasping for straws at best.

Unless you have an actual study that you have done tracking data, saying where you got the data, showing all of it in a way that is verifiable by others there is no way to know how much of what you say is actually only supported by confirmation bias.

The other problem is, how many players that aren't here or on any of the social media are there? How many people will have a complaint and instead of complaining they just move on to another game?

Unless there is a quick poll that launches when PC launches there is no way to really get the opinion of current players fairly and consistently. Other games have done this. I am not saying that PC should but it's really the only way to be truly democratic about it. If they even have any interest in being democratic about it, and not having any interest in that is 100% legitimate.

In other words, state your opinion till your are blue in the face but don't project it on anyone else.

If I got paid for that, I would turn the gathered data into a study with solid results, but I'm not, so I don't see a single reason to bother with that and do Frontiers work here. Just to convince few white knights on the forum?

The problem might as well be that u read into everything too much.

 

[Wagi]

If I got paid for that, I would turn the gathered data into a study with solid results, but I'm not, so I don't see a single reason to bother with that and do Frontiers work here. Just to convince few white knights on the forum?

The problem might as well be that u read into everything too much.

But 'solid results' of what exactly? You've only seen comments posted by a relatively small group of players compared to the much larger number who have purchased the game or who play it. You haven't seen the comments or opinions of the majority of those thousands of people have you? Because a large number of those who play this game don't post on this forum, on social media, on Steam or on other gaming sites. They are silent. The comments you have seen likely haven't all had the exact same things to say either, isn't that fair to say? So just because you've seen some comments posted elsewhere besides here - which I'm absolutely sure you have as I've seen such comments myself many places - still isn't proof that those represent anything like a majority of players, because you haven't heard from a majority of players, true? I think that's what some people here take issue with. Not that there are no doubt people who agree with you, because we all know there are, but the inference that there's some huge majority out there that do and those who don't agree are just a 'few white knights' on this forum has nothing factual to back it up.

Come on...was the "white knights" crack really needed? You want to be heard and taken seriously but then turn around and make a dismissive put-down? You're far better than that, we all know that...

I don't think it's others reading too much into everything. They aren't the ones making claims that there's 'standards' that everyone expects or that something is supposedly what the community wants. No one is telling you that your opinions aren't valid, no one is telling you that there aren't others out there that agree with you, no one is even saying that there may not be large numbers who do. But NONE of us know for sure, so none of us should infer that we do. For me that's all I object to. Your opinions I actually agree with in many cases, just not the presentation of them sometimes.

 

[HeatherG]

How many times have they released an update and then a few days later they've released an additional update with a couple fixes and tweaks that were needed? Or when something they said was coming wasn't ready at the last minute so they had to pull it?

Both have happened before, so I think that shows that work on updates continues right up until the very last minute. We also simply have no idea if they have delayed entire updates for similar reasons when they caught problems, for days or even weeks if they needed to. They may well know at Frontier that they ARE going to release something, but the final date remains in question until quite late in the process. If they say there's an update coming, you know darn well there will be an avalanche of questions as to WHEN???, and a bunch of people unhappy that no date is given, just as there would be an even greater problem if they stated a date and then the update was delayed.

Yes, I agree that it would be wonderful to hear an outline in general terms of Frontier's future plans for the game, but it's also possible that those future plans might change, or they may include plans that some people may not like and perhaps cause them to hold off on making purchases now...if you knew that a PC2 was planned for the end of the year would you be so quick to shell out money for more PC dlc that might not work in it? Would a person new to the game and interested in buying PC hold off even purchasing it if they knew a new, improved one was on the way? What about if Frontier's plans go in another direction and they just plan to end creating dlc at some set point down the line? Would that not also affect sales now? What if they don't plan on adding water rides, or tweaking park management? Those things may well change some people's minds on continuing to support the game, would they not? There's a lot of people who agree that there's still things in the game that need to be fixed or adjusted, but there's not a lot of people really vocal on that issue, so it doesn't affect sales because most people aren't bothered to the same degree. That's just a fact. Why would Frontier go out of their way to announce long-range plans that might bring on a more vocal segment, with more complaints, which may well affect sales, not only of PC, but of any future updates for it or anything else this franchise might include in the future?

Frontier is a successful business, they aren't ignoring us just because they don't care. They may not say some things because they do care, about the franchise, it's sales and the community that supports both, which is exactly what a company is supposed to care about. We shouldn't look at things just from one point of view on this...

People would be ticked off if frontier told us everything they have planned and then it doesnt work out. They shouldn’t tell us there entire plans until its set. Which is exactly what they do.

 

[Schabrackenaal]

People would be ticked off if frontier told us everything they have planned and then it doesnt work out. They shouldn’t tell us there entire plans until its set. Which is exactly what they do.

Exactly and I understand their reasons for that although I complained about communication a couple of months ago. But then they have to find other ways of communication.[weird]

As Early Bird I received the art book as digital download as many others did. What I really enjoyed was the stories behind PlanCos brands and themes.[up] The story of Lockjaw or the Drats and Princess Amelie, for instance. I really would like to see livestreams in which they explain the stories they thought of in detail. As players we can have those stories in our minds when building our parks or decide to do our own thing with it. Those stories explained why Lockjaw has a metal mouth etc.:captlockjaw:
What is the story behind René Feu? Or food brands like Cosmic Cow?:cosmiccow::logo:

I also would love to see themes being modernized - René Feu could have a lost brother whom we might get with several more scenery in a future update. Or did Lockjaw has a wife or children we might see in future? If we would get those updates one day or not - the stories could be an interesting thing.

To make such a video or stream in which some devs or artist explain what was the story behind certain characters or why they decided on design as they did would be very interesting to me. Also, those videos shouldn't require too much work for Frontier (Talk livestream). It would add to the hype, to interest into the brands, mascots and the game as a whole. It would be communication (in a positive manner and without telling us about future things).[big grin]

 

[Chems]

People would be ticked off if frontier told us everything they have planned and then it doesnt work out. They shouldn’t tell us there entire plans until its set. Which is exactly what they do.

You know, there is a middle-ground between telling nothing at all and telling everything they have planned...

 

[mr.sugar]

But 'solid results' of what exactly? You've only seen comments posted by a relatively small group of players compared to the much larger number who have purchased the game or who play it. You haven't seen the comments or opinions of the majority of those thousands of people have you? Because a large number of those who play this game don't post on this forum, on social media, on Steam or on other gaming sites. They are silent. The comments you have seen likely haven't all had the exact same things to say either, isn't that fair to say? So just because you've seen some comments posted elsewhere besides here - which I'm absolutely sure you have as I've seen such comments myself many places - still isn't proof that those represent anything like a majority of players, because you haven't heard from a majority of players, true? I think that's what some people here take issue with. Not that there are no doubt people who agree with you, because we all know there are, but the inference that there's some huge majority out there that do and those who don't agree are just a 'few white knights' on this forum has nothing factual to back it up.

Come on...was the "white knights" crack really needed? You want to be heard and taken seriously but then turn around and make a dismissive put-down? You're far better than that, we all know that...

I don't think it's others reading too much into everything. They aren't the ones making claims that there's 'standards' that everyone expects or that something is supposedly what the community wants. No one is telling you that your opinions aren't valid, no one is telling you that there aren't others out there that agree with you, no one is even saying that there may not be large numbers who do. But NONE of us know for sure, so none of us should infer that we do. For me that's all I object to. Your opinions I actually agree with in many cases, just not the presentation of them sometimes.

You read into it too much too. Of course I don't have these data. I have noticed feedback only from people who bothered to give some feedback. Honestly, you should just get easier on these. I have been part of many communities but haven't seen a group of people still calling for this kind of stuff anywhere. It's kind of a new extreme for me.

 

[2MileDollywood]

People would be ticked off if frontier told us everything they have planned and then it doesnt work out. They shouldn’t tell us there entire plans until its set. Which is exactly what they do.

Nobody is asking Frontier to dish it all out at once. Game developers sometimes do this and I feel this is when the game tanks and doesn't profit well. It's bad marketing. I rather enjoy the hype. Giving some insight on the future is needed though. Like, for example, when TS4 Seasons was announced a month ago- a month before the release that is, it was exciting and it got everyone back into conversation. It brought the community across all platforms back together. But 2 weeks after the announcement they gave too much all at once and by the time the pack came out we already knew everything we had to know about it which was a huge turn off, considering popular game reviewers had already posted their overall review of the pack a week before it released.

But I do agree with you, Frontier, or any developers for that matter, shouldn't have to tell us their entire plan for the game. But I also think Frontier shouldn't come out and say that a new feature, say for example, weather particles, is impossible and would never make it into the game, and then one day we get an update with weather. It makes us feel as though we've been lied too all along. We abandon our ideas, suggestions, feedback and critiques for such a feature. And that's when all the communities abandon the game, including the optimistic ones. It's pretty much saying, "Oh, we told you we can't do this due to the engine the game is built on, but we played around with it and was able to work around the programming and here you are," right after blantanly claiming, 'never happening' or 'it's not our top priority with this installment'. Sorry, I'm getting off topic.

It would be great though if we had someone from Frontier who not only patrolled the forum making sure the forum topics stayed on topic, but they were also engaging with us more. Starting topics themselves on 'need your suggestions', 'we want your input', 'how can we do a better job', and 'how can we make this game better than it already is." Maybe if we got some definite answers to our questions and they engaged us with our criticism on features, etc. members on this forum would return, new members would sign up for the forum, and perhaps even engage on other platforms that are official to Frontier and the Planet Coaster Trademark.

That's just my two-and-a-half cents.

 

[lilibat]

You read into it too much too. Of course I don't have these data. I have noticed feedback only from people who bothered to give some feedback.

If you don't have the data, then don't throw around fake statistics. Express your own opinion but stop trying to legitimize it with numbers that don't exist. If you want to use these other places to support your opinion, post links to them but don't expect people to trust your interpretation sight-unseen.

I actually like they way they wait to announce till it's almost ready to pop. Bethesda does this too. It lessens the hype ahead of something but you actually get the thing while you are still excited about getting the thing.

 

[MKelley]

Unless you have an actual study that you have done tracking data, saying where you got the data, showing all of it in a way that is verifiable by others there is no way to know how much of what you say is actually only supported by confirmation bias.

The other problem is, how many players that aren't here or on any of the social media are there? How many people will have a complaint and instead of complaining they just move on to another game?

Unless there is a quick poll that launches when PC launches there is no way to really get the opinion of current players fairly and consistently. Other games have done this. I am not saying that PC should but it's really the only way to be truly democratic about it. If they even have any interest in being democratic about it, and not having any interest in that is 100% legitimate.

In other words, state your opinion till your are blue in the face but don't project it on anyone else.

As of 8-15-17 Frontier sent out a msg of 1 million copies sold. If you go and look at YouTube and Planet Coasters official page they have less than 72k followers. That's just over 7% of total sales and their highest watched stream was less than 115k and that's only 11.5%. And if you look at Reddit they only have 40k followers less than 5%. Even if I gave you 300k of all people watching that don't follow PC you might jump to 30%. That is far lower than the majority of the people. These fourms are for the die hard player, most people could care less or have moved on to something else. Me I like laughing at this same topic posted over and over and over beating the same dead horse.

 

[Wagi]

As of 8-15-17 Frontier sent out a msg of 1 million copies sold. If you go and look at YouTube and Planet Coasters official page they have less than 72k followers. That's just over 7% of total sales and their highest watched stream was less than 115k and that's only 11.5%. And if you look at Reddit they only have 40k followers less than 5%. Even if I gave you 300k of all people watching that don't follow PC you might jump to 30%. That is far lower than the majority of the people. These fourms are for the die hard player, most people could care less or have moved on to something else. Me I like laughing at this same topic posted over and over and over beating the same dead horse.

You're absolutely right...on all points!

 

[breezerHOG1]

As of 8-15-17 Frontier sent out a msg of 1 million copies sold. If you go and look at YouTube and Planet Coasters official page they have less than 72k followers. That's just over 7% of total sales and their highest watched stream was less than 115k and that's only 11.5%. And if you look at Reddit they only have 40k followers less than 5%. Even if I gave you 300k of all people watching that don't follow PC you might jump to 30%. That is far lower than the majority of the people. These fourms are for the die hard player, most people could care less or have moved on to something else. Me I like laughing at this same topic posted over and over and over beating the same dead horse.

wow somebody who actually knows how to put numbers together, very well done [up]

its very obvious when somebody knows what there talking about and I wish there were more people around here who actually could have solid conversations instead of the same crap all the time. Either, everybody is arguing about marketing and communication, or they are arguing over statistics, but nobody is actually discussing the game

Oh wait, I used words like nobody and everybody, better rewrite out an additional paragraph with more accurate numbers to cover myself from any other accusations lol

 

[KickAir8p]

. . . I'm sure like 90% players just expected PC to have stuff recolorIng, or even haven't thought about that if it will be there or not. they automatically counted on it.

If you don't have the data, then don't throw around fake statistics. Express your own opinion but stop trying to legitimize it with numbers that don't exist . . .

Looks to me that this is clearly phrased as an opinion, with "90% players" a ballpark estimate. Attacking the use of this common rhetorical practice as "fake statistics"?

As of 8-15-17 Frontier sent out a msg of 1 million copies sold. If you go and look at YouTube and Planet Coasters official page they have less than 72k followers. That's just over 7% of total sales and their highest watched stream was less than 115k and that's only 11.5%. And if you look at Reddit they only have 40k followers less than 5%. Even if I gave you 300k of all people watching that don't follow PC you might jump to 30%. That is far lower than the majority of the people. These fourms are for the die hard player, most people could care less or have moved on to something else. Me I like laughing at this same topic posted over and over and over beating the same dead horse.

Steam tracks how long I play and when, it shows me. Does it show Frontier? Probably, anonymized of course. So how many of those million copies sold were to people who played and enjoyed the game enough to keep buying DLCs or to trust Frontier enough to buy other games from them, and how many were disappointed but unwilling or unable to get a refund? Or does that number even account for refunds? Every person posting is a small fraction of "silent" buyers -- what are those people saying offline, to their family, friends, at the breakroom coffeepot? How does that influence potential buyers?

Hard numbers are great, but they're not enough. Interpretation is key.

 

[Crowdpleaser]

Looks to me that this is clearly phrased as an opinion, with "90% players" a ballpark estimate. Attacking the use of this common rhetorical practice as "fake statistics"?

If somebody invents a Number like this to prove his/her point it is totally legit to question it. Yes we noticed it was rhetorical, so what? Still doesn't make his assumption more valid.

 

[KickAir8p]

. . . I'm sure like 90% players just expected PC to have stuff recolorIng, or even haven't thought about that if it will be there or not. they automatically counted on it.

If you don't have the data, then don't throw around fake statistics. Express your own opinion but stop trying to legitimize it with numbers that don't exist . . .

Looks to me that this is clearly phrased as an opinion, with "90% players" a ballpark estimate. Attacking the use of this common rhetorical practice as "fake statistics"?

If somebody invents a Number like this to prove his/her point it is totally legit to question it. Yes we noticed it was rhetorical, so what? Still doesn't make his assumption more valid.

Nor does it make his estimate less valid -- it's not like "satisfied customer" is the default, so anything else requires hard numbers to be worthy of consideration. And does "don't throw around fake statistics", which you've just acknowledged as a deliberately false accusation, qualify as legit questioning? In your opinion, of course -- I don't expect you to speak for lilibat even if you do refer to yourselves as "we". [weird]

 

[Citytrader]

Nor does it make his estimate less valid -- it's not like "satisfied customer" is the default, so anything else requires hard numbers to be worthy of consideration. And does "don't throw around fake statistics", which you've just acknowledged as a deliberately false accusation, qualify as legit questioning? In your opinion, of course -- I don't expect you to speak for lilibat even if you do refer to yourselves as "we". [weird]

Well, I have to disagree. He threw out a 90% number as though it were fact, not even prefaced with "i my opinion" or "Assume for a moment". So, yeah, a number of people are going to have a problem with his making up statistics and presenting them as facts.

The hard truth is no one on these boards has any concept of what total sales are, customer satisfaction rates, units sold of the various DLCs, whether the majority want or do not want anything in the game, or any monetary or unit info about the company. We all engage in wild speculation, which is OK as long as we make that clear.

I teach 12 and 13 year olds (Heaven help me!), and one of their favorite expressions is "Everyone hates you (or it, or the class, or the weather, whatever). My retort is always the same, and many of my students now clarify themselves when they speak. I ask them, "Really? Do you know everyone on the planet?" It forces them to pause and use their brains, which are good for more than sitting on! [big grin]

Back full circle, I want a carousel!!!!

 

[lilibat]

Nor does it make his estimate less valid -- it's not like "satisfied customer" is the default, so anything else requires hard numbers to be worthy of consideration. And does "don't throw around fake statistics", which you've just acknowledged as a deliberately false accusation, qualify as legit questioning? In your opinion, of course -- I don't expect you to speak for lilibat even if you do refer to yourselves as "we". [weird]

Are you one of those people that think facts are flexible? Numbers are very specific things. When presented as statistics meant to support one's argument if the numbers are completely made up, no they are not valid. If he prefaced with 'In my estimate 90%..." that would be one thing, presented as a flat statistic it's more than just a figure of speech. His 'estimate' is only valid if presented as an estimate and not as statistic.

In any case I do hope they announce this week and release next week like they did with Studios. Even if it's something I am not into I have been putting off working on my parks in case I get new stuff that will change how I am doing some things. A Carnival thingy might actually be helpful for the faire I am going to stage outside my D&D medieval village. Who knows?

 

[KickAir8p]

Back full circle, I want a carousel!!!!

Ooooo, me too! [up] The Venetian one's nice, but doesn't IMHO replace the iconic style.

 

[Robert K]

I want a carousel that’s like the DIY one on the workshop. The person who made that did a great job on it, but it isn’t functional.

 

[Citytrader]

I want a carousel that’s like the DIY one on the workshop. The person who made that did a great job on it, but it isn’t functional.

Yes, they did. But I want a big honking carousel that is popular with peeps. Maybe a menagerie type with animals other than horses!

 

[lilibat]

Yes, they did. But I want a big honking carousel that is popular with peeps. Maybe a menagerie type with animals other than horses!

I of course would l love one with monsters or mythical animals. Even just little dragons and those cute mole things I can never remember the name of, unicorns, a kraken bench seat, that sort of thing.