New Version of Cmdr's Log Available!
- Thread starter ArchV1
- Start date
Try this:
The spirit of the game, as applied to an online community... .
First, I would like to thank you for the tool.
I've written a similar using utility, before realizing others had also done so, and to spectacular effect.
I would, however, like to expand on the crowd sourcing view-point you've shared, and see if it can be changed:
"My belief is that the crowd-sourced tools violate the true spirit of the game. You are not supposed to know commodity prices of systems you haven't visited. If this were the case it would have easily been built into the game in the first place."
I agree, that in the one sense it could violate the spirit of the game, if it was a stated goal of the design, that everyone operate in a bubble, yet work as a team in an online game with a community. It is entirely possible that the lack of such a community "feature" in the game is an oversight, and the community crafting third-party tools of these sorts are a welcome but in intended consequence of an online community.
Why would it be thought that, a future where commerce exists against a vast number of systems, that a network of shared data would not form between its denizens, making life easier for the society therein? It seems completely natural that organically, such networking would take place if this environment were to exist in real-life... . In fact, it is the function withing the game of stellar cartography that such networking is implemented in game (as far as it was seemingly thought about). Recall that the game has a solo play mode (as the original was not a community game) and in such a way, the Player Character (PC) doesn't have the opportunity to form this network of shared data with the Non-Player Characters (NPC)'s of the game (theoretically); whereas in the online community mode, (PC)'s can form this network, and would form it, and have done so (without altering (hacking) the game).
Already there are ideas from the community that Frontier Development (FD) have mentioned were being assimilated into the game. And if (FD) felt it violated the spirit of the game, I'm sure it would have been voiced. However, due to the external efforts of folks like yourself, it is possible that they (FD) will not select any one third-party commerce tool and incorporate it into the game, but rather add API's or other facilities to make such tools easier to create and or integrate into the gaming experience, and to promote community efforts to that effect. Game developers do typically love modding communities that form for their games, as long as the game is not harmed by such efforts. I don't think Traders and such break anything by networking the formation of trade routes and commerce data, or in fact any data within the virtual universe where a need for said data exists, and a natural networking effort would occur if it were in real-life, the meta-game if you will. With a background in EvE-Online, I can tell you the meta-game side-effect is very real and just as much a part of the game as what was produced directly by CCP.
Anyway, I enjoy the manual entry experience because as you suggest, the spirit feels the right way, however, I would say not to close off the networking aspect of the communities efforts because technically by being a community based game, it is also part of the spirit that the universe would evolve into a more connected one than not.
Thanks for reading my $.02.
Live long, and prosper,
Commander Darkstrumn
First, I would like to thank you for the tool.
I've written a similar using utility, before realizing others had also done so, and to spectacular effect.
I would, however, like to expand on the crowd sourcing view-point you've shared, and see if it can be changed:
"My belief is that the crowd-sourced tools violate the true spirit of the game. You are not supposed to know commodity prices of systems you haven't visited. If this were the case it would have easily been built into the game in the first place."
I agree, that in the one sense it could violate the spirit of the game, if it was a stated goal of the design, that everyone operate in a bubble, yet work as a team in an online game with a community. It is entirely possible that the lack of such a community "feature" in the game is an oversight, and the community crafting third-party tools of these sorts are a welcome but in intended consequence of an online community.
Why would it be thought that, a future where commerce exists against a vast number of systems, that a network of shared data would not form between its denizens, making life easier for the society therein? It seems completely natural that organically, such networking would take place if this environment were to exist in real-life... . In fact, it is the function withing the game of stellar cartography that such networking is implemented in game (as far as it was seemingly thought about). Recall that the game has a solo play mode (as the original was not a community game) and in such a way, the Player Character (PC) doesn't have the opportunity to form this network of shared data with the Non-Player Characters (NPC)'s of the game (theoretically); whereas in the online community mode, (PC)'s can form this network, and would form it, and have done so (without altering (hacking) the game).
Already there are ideas from the community that Frontier Development (FD) have mentioned were being assimilated into the game. And if (FD) felt it violated the spirit of the game, I'm sure it would have been voiced. However, due to the external efforts of folks like yourself, it is possible that they (FD) will not select any one third-party commerce tool and incorporate it into the game, but rather add API's or other facilities to make such tools easier to create and or integrate into the gaming experience, and to promote community efforts to that effect. Game developers do typically love modding communities that form for their games, as long as the game is not harmed by such efforts. I don't think Traders and such break anything by networking the formation of trade routes and commerce data, or in fact any data within the virtual universe where a need for said data exists, and a natural networking effort would occur if it were in real-life, the meta-game if you will. With a background in EvE-Online, I can tell you the meta-game side-effect is very real and just as much a part of the game as what was produced directly by CCP.
Anyway, I enjoy the manual entry experience because as you suggest, the spirit feels the right way, however, I would say not to close off the networking aspect of the communities efforts because technically by being a community based game, it is also part of the spirit that the universe would evolve into a more connected one than not.
Thanks for reading my $.02.
Live long, and prosper,
Commander Darkstrumn
I've been using Cmdr's Log for a while now, and love it - for me it fits nicely with how I like to play ED - a largely solo experience.
However with the effective end of Elite OCR (which was always a pain to get the info in) I was wondering if anyone has tried using Elite: Dangerous market Connector (EDMC) to get info in?
If not, can anyone recommend an off-line (aka local-only) replacement for Cmdr's Log, that uses EDMC?
Any thoughts/suggestions welcome!
Cheers.
However with the effective end of Elite OCR (which was always a pain to get the info in) I was wondering if anyone has tried using Elite: Dangerous market Connector (EDMC) to get info in?
If not, can anyone recommend an off-line (aka local-only) replacement for Cmdr's Log, that uses EDMC?
Any thoughts/suggestions welcome!
Cheers.
Great - thanks - I'll give it a go...
EDIT - just in process of setting up EDMC... ;-)
EDIT 2: Output format of CSV (from EDMC into CMDR's Log) works a blooming treat!!!!
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Yes, that's the one - it's still a very handy wee app - I just wish it had a 'tidy up old data' function - e.g. where stations have long stopped supplying/demanding a commodity.
(And yes I know I could do this manually, but when your 'database' reaches a certain size it becomes more than a chore!)
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Yea, I noted that too... data refresh is a issue (Do I hear.. "It's time for a update time?")
Just keep in mind that Commanders Log will not show proftable routes when stations have no demand (but still buy stuff). And you can get an up-to-date-commodity list a few anwers above by the way.
Yes, thanks for the heads-up. I know this minor weakness, and whilst I might miss out on the odd route, I'm not overly bothered.
One of the reasons I much prefer these types of tools is that they feel more in keeping with the 'ethos' of Elite, to me. Another reason is that, from what I've seen from the online tools, esp. the trading data can be one heck of a lot more reliable!
I assume the online tools are subjectct to the same level of douchebag'ness that can alas prevail out in the wild unaccountablenet.
Plus ca change...
How do I do it? Just set output to CSV and target folder to CMDR log? Or something else?
Set the output to CSV, then point both EDMC output and Cmdrs Log import to look in the same folder. I have mine set to a new folder called 'data', in the Cmdrs Log directory structure, but it can be called anything and be anywhere.
Note the Cmdrs Log import direçtory is set from within the form that pops up after you press the import button. EDMC's is set in its settings.
Hope that helps!
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Hello,
Going to check this out....
Looks Extremely Useful
Thank You.
+1
********** Remember Whiskey Loves You **********
Going to check this out....
Looks Extremely Useful
Thank You.
+1
********** Remember Whiskey Loves You **********
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For a moment I thought someone had found a solution for getting around the EliteOCR problem with the icons in the commodities market screenshots, with all this talk of EDMC. I just went and had a look, but was turned off it when I notice you need to use your ED login details to get the info... a potential security risk I'm not willing to take. Whilst I don't religiously read the Frontier forums, I've also heard there's a bunch of tools that use these API thingos that FDev aren't happy about them doing so. Is there evidence to the contrary that this EDMC isn't one of them ?
I know there was talk here recently about people looking at the Python code to figure out how to fix the screenshot issue. I hope there are efforts still in that direction, as manual data entry in CMDR's Log is somewhat limiting.
TassieDevil
I know there was talk here recently about people looking at the Python code to figure out how to fix the screenshot issue. I hope there are efforts still in that direction, as manual data entry in CMDR's Log is somewhat limiting.
TassieDevil
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Seems FD is fine with tools using the API as long as it doesn't spam requests. EDMC has a cool down timer that prevents spamming.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=218658&page=26&p=3371472#post3371472
OK, but that still leaves the potential security issue. If the program can send your details to an FD server, it can also send them elsewhere. I'd prefer a solution that doesn't require risking the security of your account.
TassieDevil
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Since the data it pulls isn't for everyone (that would be a refresh hell) they have to log into YOUR data feed FROM the game... and that means they have to log in as you to the game data stream to be able to send you the data relevant to you. No more a risk than logging in normally really. BUT, the API has to log in as the player... SO... it means your login is used.
Now... I admit what would have been better in their case is a login from the users that can be non-duplicate of the game... THEN require the UN/PW for the game within their code and it can then be saved as a 128k encryption on both the logins.
But at this point it's kinda hard to change.