Newbie Buffs
- Thread starter AgentGB
- Start date
So for maximum firepower i would contact customer support once a while to reset my combat rank to harmless. Interesting idea.
How about a more sensible choice.
A steeper increase to module reboots than the current system, but applied in the terms of the games progression, which is of course, the vessels.
So. A small ship? 30 second cooldown. A medium? 45 seconds. A large one, one full minute.
That way the "lategame" vessels require another layer of skill to fly thus keeping in line with the main progression the game provides.
The new players then have an advantage on their opponents who are in larger ships by having the potential to escape to cruise/another system an amount faster than thier attacker.
Of course the ships attacking will generally be considerably more powerful however this gives said new players a fighting chance to hide themselves when needing to.
Added bonus is you'll see a fair amount less "gold rush" noobs in vettes and cutters. The downside of course will mean a lot of them will combat log, though for any player wanting to engage in PvP/Piracy in the long term that is of course effectively social suicide.
A steeper increase to module reboots than the current system, but applied in the terms of the games progression, which is of course, the vessels.
So. A small ship? 30 second cooldown. A medium? 45 seconds. A large one, one full minute.
That way the "lategame" vessels require another layer of skill to fly thus keeping in line with the main progression the game provides.
The new players then have an advantage on their opponents who are in larger ships by having the potential to escape to cruise/another system an amount faster than thier attacker.
Of course the ships attacking will generally be considerably more powerful however this gives said new players a fighting chance to hide themselves when needing to.
Added bonus is you'll see a fair amount less "gold rush" noobs in vettes and cutters. The downside of course will mean a lot of them will combat log, though for any player wanting to engage in PvP/Piracy in the long term that is of course effectively social suicide.
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Hmm. Now this is a more interesting idea than everything before. In theory. It might be a bit more refined than small/medium/large, but giving bigger ships actual disadvantages would be a novelty. Currently they just stack up advantages and any significant disadvantages are engineered away.
So yea, this would be much better than an artificial "you rank up, your ship gets worse" system. Unfortunately it won't happen due to the community. Even rather small nerfs were cried away in the past. Even when those people who had access to the testserver actually liked them, people who did not test (known console players or some who openly admitted that they never tested, but would by default hate any change which might weaken them the tiniest bit) delivered a constant stream of complaints, till FD caved.
Based on this, it would take FD not just decades but even centuries to gather up enough courage to make a change like this.
Pretty much, big ships have it wayyy to easy. Since the TLB nerf big ships have had so much freedom to behave as they like if given half a chance.
Yup, you're probably right there. Anything that risks a cmdr not being ultre invincible in their jumbo weenis extension will be screamed at as if the pilots were spoiled kindergartners.
Aways the way though. Those who test report and those with cognitive dissonance and emotional attatchement to something whinge about every detail. I've been here what three years? I think that particular aspect was clear after the first week.
Though as I said on another post, I wouldnt be at all surprised if this forum isnt just a lolcow for the office given how much petty character assasination attempts and childish name calling gets thrown around it would be a wonder if they could take it seriously at all.
Possibly. Doesn't matter. I don't really believe that FD will dare to implement disadvantages for bigger ships now. But it would be the best way to implement what this thread is all about: a system which supports beginners, who traditionally are in smaller ships.
As a positive side-effect, if done properly it might also give a bit of live to small ships in general again. They by now are nothing but stepping stones, where the active player get out of as soon as he can afford. Anything unique to make them more attractive again would be more than welcome in my eyes.
Well it can be said that if they were going to do anything to change bigbois the anaconda would be top of that list. However in 5 years nothing has really changed apart from how powerful a large vessel can be.
Traditionally yes, but much like when Quince was a think we have a large amount of very green pilots in vettes and cutters after two days, on top of that they are in shinrarta almost instantly. The whole progression system is a little borked simply because the endgame vessels are far too easy to obtain, thus massively decreasing the variation in ships seen knocking about.
Yeah I agree, its very sad that an entire group of ships has been rendered useless to much of the playerbase. Though there are still a few of us using them its no where near the volume of players running round in big ships. Personally I feel like players miss out on vast amounts of ingame knowledge aswell by buying these massive ships straight away. They often do not have the skills required to fly them, lose them in combat and then we have yet another group whining about ganking and greifing because they skipped on learning the majority of skills required to fly such a big vessel.
updated the OP with your idea, since i think you both make a valid/good point, and makes more sense worthy of its own thread imo. I didn't want your brainstorming efforts being wasted & buried under tons of other comments so placed it in the OP so folks passing through this thread who like this idea will remember this in the future should the stars align & an opportunity for bringing any needed change to gameplay.
Respect
Nothing make me sad then seeing someone actually make a really good suggestion that gets trampled past in a 40 page thread as the krap flies lol. Its actually a really good idea, thanks to you & sylow being very constructive.
Agreed, often it seems that rather than discussing the point a lot of forumites would rather derail threads in what seems like attempts to get the thread either shut down or ignored. Sure its not everyone but its so unhelpful considering that these forums were intended to help steer the game in positive direction.
looks good to me. at least a break from the opposite tendency, that on top of getting more experienced you get better gear. this never made any sense to me, it's like extreme darwinian competition wasn't enough. i guess it only works because it a) echoes the capitalist mindset of the epoch and b) appeals to the reptilian mind and c) is thus lucrative.
it would give some meaning (?) to rank too.
one problem is balancing. imo that's already pretty screwed up, changing these basic values at the avatar level could have a cascade of consequences and, you know ... frontier. but the general idea is good.
Tell me about it!! Instead of attempting to problem solve it in a pragmatic way, that fairly tries to tackle the situation from both points of view & reach a reasonable consensus, the thread generally ends with two sides polarizing. I can see why, seems to be an element of the forumites having a spot of fun, I mean i'm guilty too of it, but some are overly dogmatic & even i end up getting quite zealous, i do honestly think the deck is stacked against PvP, but like your suggestion, it atleast attempts to be fair in that respect of "what the right hand gives, the left hand take from elsehwere".
The idea you proposed does that in that respect, it attempts to be even handed, despite you clearly being someone like myself who strongly enjoys Open for the PvP element.
thanks man, its still fundamentally flawed though in some respects, but i was genuinely trying to aim for improving newer players circumstances, although i didn't take into account specific situations as mentioned in some earlier post. I mean having something tied to rank as such would be good, especially in the way you say, that goes against normal trends & instead takes away starter/newbie buffs as rank increases, but i do think @Voracity_T & @Sylow could be onto something a bit more within the realms of feasibility. E.g Ship size being a factor. It would make ganking smaller ships more difficult while at the same time a certain amount of reliance still needed on being able to confidently & calming use the FSD to jump away instead.
In hindsight i think the ranking system could be exploited if a player did take it upon themselves to do nothing but certain missions, like passengers, since i don't think they level up ranks? Even though that alot of effort to go to to exploit.
I like the idea of buffing newbs to prevent early termination, but building a mechanic that favors logging instead of playing is probably not the right direction to go.
I would prefer a buff to the newb in the interdiction minigame, and possibly a greater separation distance once the interdiction instance is created.
For example, depending on the combat level differential, the interdicted target needs fewer bars filled to avoid the interdiction.
For example, for every combat level differential, the interdicted target is 2 km farther away.
Applying these kinds of adjustments would keep the players in the game, teach them the ropes, and not encourage them to log.
I would prefer a buff to the newb in the interdiction minigame, and possibly a greater separation distance once the interdiction instance is created.
For example, depending on the combat level differential, the interdicted target needs fewer bars filled to avoid the interdiction.
For example, for every combat level differential, the interdicted target is 2 km farther away.
Applying these kinds of adjustments would keep the players in the game, teach them the ropes, and not encourage them to log.
As an act of ultimate ganker trolling make all starting Sidewinders indestructible. MMMMWWAAAAHAHAHAA!
By the time people get to a second ship they will learn the most basic stuff.
By the time people get to a second ship they will learn the most basic stuff.
Awesome! We have very few people here who do that. Kudos to you!
And on the topic and how it evolved: i still dislike the small/medium/large split. It just feels artificial. If anything, i would even say that a ships mass might influence some things.
The higher the mass, the higher the FSD cooldown. I mean, it still is only the FDS cooldown. It won't affect people too much in regular play. Interdictions and emergency FSD shutdown due to smacking into a star or planet are the only things where this would really matter. Considering how much sturdier big ships can be, they'd still be at an advantage even if their high mass doubles the FSD cooldown, so i guess this could be acceptable.
At the same time, when considering that this is only on the FSD cooldown, i guess it's not really enough to make small ships attractive again. I've pondered a few other aspects where small ships could gain an advantage, but nothing i currently can come up with would really make sense without creating other huge problems for the game.
In the end the small ship problem boils down to the fact that medium ships by now can be engineered to have the flight characteristics which formerly were reserved to small ships, while large ships can poach in former medium ship performance area. At the same time they can pack much more firepower and durability. Small ships still have an agility advantage, but between stacking shields, stacking resists on shields and hull and carrying SCBs, the firepower of their few small and medium hardpoints is generally not adequate any more. (I am aware of a few extreme setups which still perform acceptable, but they are not enough to change the big picture. )
So as long as weapons scale the way they do and engineering remains as powerful as it is, i guess this suggestion still won't be the necessary "make small ships great again" change. But if it just helps new players getting out of trouble quicker (almost only new players fly small ships these days), while bigger ships have to rely on their powerful defenses a few seconds longer, i would consider that all fine.
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