I'm glad someone else agrees.
Nick gives reason for no sleeping dinos (Personally I like it)
- Thread starter Andrew2018
- Start date
I'm glad someone else agrees.
How is this debate still going on lol. JPOG has sleeping dinos for crying out loud. Going from memory Zoo Tycoon had sleeping animals (aswell as dinos in expansion packs) and even had placable structures in order to facilitate this. Think I am just going to repeat myself but sleeping is an activity that should have been up there on the priority list with eating and drinking. Its just such a weird design choice probably wont even bother me too much when playing, but just... why... ?
Agreed.
Frankly, I’m also not particularly interested in Dino sleeping either. But I’m all good with any kind of realism (at least compromised to suit both sides of the arguments).
As an additional suggestion (maybe people already brought up):-
Sleeping Dino won’t move much and make much noise. On the other side, sick Dino will continue to move and moan for sickness.
To PCMR4Life again, I also partly agreed when you said on earlier posts that Frontier doesn’t promise anything extra the realism clan expected/asked for. To this, I would say I will never blame them for honesty concern.
But at the same time, please also keep in mind that regardless one like it or not, the fact is that a considerable amount of people that is going to buy this game is expecting a decent level of Dino realism (I’m not saying Frontier doesn’t achieve that. I have to wait and feel it myself). As a result, a considerable amount of money is going to pour in to their business. Yes, strictly speaking, this is absolutely not a fault of Frontier or any Devs but to be fair to people, sometimes one cannot simply set a goal and ignore the rests. In contrary, to be a good Devs, most of the time one needs to react to things completely unexpected, adjusted things accordingly to suit the benefits of all parties.
Honestly speaking, I’ve already seen and felt that they are doing things in the good Devs path – by listening and already taken into account some of the complaints. This is one of the reasons I’m going to buy the game. Please keep up the good practice!
I'm not gonna harp on about this, because it's a done argument at this point but what parts of any of my posts on this thread suggest I can't wrap my head around something?
I've said I'm not fussed about sleeping either way. Many are and that's fine as I believe eventually it will be in the game. The other thing I mentioned is that people are going on about it breaking "immersion" which I don't believe it will. Yes you're going to be focused on the dinosaurs but unless you for some reason watch them for the entirety of playing the game and do nothing else it probably won't even cross your mind that they haven't slept. By the time you've built the park, bred the dinos, done your research, managed your fossils, restocked feeders, repaired damage, rescued escaped dinos and managed disasters I really doubt we're all gonna sit back and go "wait a minute - 45 minutes sorting all that out and none of my dinosaurs have slept yet"
That's my points. I'm not going to try and counter the whole "sleeping should be there because it's natural behavoiur and makes it feel more realistic" because I agree with that.
Also, if you were a guest in the park your thought process would be: "Holy mother of all holy things holy that's a jesus g DINOSAUR omgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomg! and you probably wouldn't see it sleep during your 6 hour visit in the day time
From memory, I think my comment about you being (seemingly) unable to wrap your head about something wasn't directed at you personally. It was mainly motivated by the fact that some people don't seem to grasp the idea that dinosaurs displaying a wide array of behaviours such as sleeping would increase immersion.
I know you're not guilty of this, but the argument of 'well since this is unrealistic it's not important if other things are unrealistic' is incredibly lazy and it seems to be quite prevalent right now. I guess that was the motivation behind my message.
No harm no foul 
just wanted to clarify just in case. I'm in agreement with your (and others) arguments for inclusion
In fact I do also think it's a bit strange to not include it bearing in mind Nick R confirmed that there's already a separate animation already in the game to allow the dinosaurs to lay down and sleep when they're sick. Honestly it's hard to understand why there isn't just a standard mechanic in the game for this action to occur at other times. This is also why I'm fairly confident that it at some point definitely will be in the game. I guess it's just something that's not of major importance to the devs given the tight timeframe
I'd have preferred Nick just said "sleeping isn't something that's in the game currently as a mechanic unless the dinosaur is sick. However we'll look at feedback after release to see if this is something for the future". I guess because he gave the reasons he did means that they've genuinely decided that this is the way they wanted it to be and we can only hope that it get changed. It's a situation where the people that aren't fussed about it being there won't be affected by it's inclusion, but people who want it in ARE going to be affected by it's exclusion
just wanted to clarify just in case. I'm in agreement with your (and others) arguments for inclusionIn fact I do also think it's a bit strange to not include it bearing in mind Nick R confirmed that there's already a separate animation already in the game to allow the dinosaurs to lay down and sleep when they're sick. Honestly it's hard to understand why there isn't just a standard mechanic in the game for this action to occur at other times. This is also why I'm fairly confident that it at some point definitely will be in the game. I guess it's just something that's not of major importance to the devs given the tight timeframe
I'd have preferred Nick just said "sleeping isn't something that's in the game currently as a mechanic unless the dinosaur is sick. However we'll look at feedback after release to see if this is something for the future". I guess because he gave the reasons he did means that they've genuinely decided that this is the way they wanted it to be and we can only hope that it get changed. It's a situation where the people that aren't fussed about it being there won't be affected by it's inclusion, but people who want it in ARE going to be affected by it's exclusion
So the colour variations (where we all thought they aged) and the notifications telling us a dino is sick isnt enough of a visual!? Nah, that just seems like it was something that was "important" enough to get complete for launch. Honestly I would have accepted "with there being fixed times of day it made sense for us to not include sleep, otherwise you would have an island of sleeping dinos if they were all to sleep at night etc" over the hand holding reason given. Hopefully its something that finds its way into game later, its been shown in trailers and the ai is basically there already for sick dinos, it just needs tweaking.
I suppose most of the dinosaurs will also die in their sleep of old age then. Thx but no thx haha.
Well I only played Zoo Tycoon 1. Never played the 2nd or JPOG for that matter and I see so many comments about those games and even planet coaster(didn't play that either) that they had this and that etc. A reason I started using this forum less for a bit.
I think it's good that Frontier choses a different path with this game. How cheap and cheesy is it to recreat older games(but also understandable to some degree) and implement older ingame options. I think it takes balls so Frontier good for you! Be different, even if people will disagree.
Why some users has the need to justify every mistake with childish arguments? It's that hard to admit that it isn't perfect, that there are some illogical decisions? When people complained about the absence of decorations to our park, some people said: "This game it's focus on the dinosaurs, not the park". Ok, that's fine, the problem is that the AI it's not that complex (I saw the complete clip of the fight between deinonychus and velociraptor, and when deinonychus lost the fight, 5 seconds later, he went directly to fight another raptor, WHAT?) to let you see your dinosaurs for hours without boredom, so, if this small details like dinosaurs sleeping, or whatever, that can give some randomness and realistic behaviour to dinosaurs aren't implemented, what can I expect?
In Zoo Tycoon 2 I enjoyed seeing my animals playing, eating, posing, sleeping, fighting… It's 2018, I expect a better, more realistic (Yeah, dinosaurs doesn't exist, but they are still animals), and complex behaviour, because if that's not the case, and the management park it's simplified… Well, after completing the game I will uninstall because I have nothing to do.
In Zoo Tycoon 2 I enjoyed seeing my animals playing, eating, posing, sleeping, fighting… It's 2018, I expect a better, more realistic (Yeah, dinosaurs doesn't exist, but they are still animals), and complex behaviour, because if that's not the case, and the management park it's simplified… Well, after completing the game I will uninstall because I have nothing to do.
Hmmmm....here are my thoughts.
While I usually don't side with the immersion crowd, I'm going to have to agree here. There is just something off about having a park management game where the animals don't sleep. I also don't buy the explanation of us not being able to differentiate between sleeping healthy and sleeping sick, not to mention that I also feel if that was one of the reasons then why not spend a bit more time making the animations more unique.
I also feel like it might have been a missed opportunity to have it add to the management of the park. Sleeping dinos will lose stats the longer they sleep so you could try to balance their energy needs by having things in the exhibits that add to their energy or relax them so they don't lose energy as quickly. If you can't adequately maintain their stats they begin to sleep more often and then the exhibits become less popular and start losing money. Perhaps you could then use a special tranq to boost the energy for a moment, but this could also lead to negative side effects.
Of course those ideas could be something tied to a type of DINO UPKEEP expansion where they can implement some of the features from Zoo Tycoon. Perhaps allowing us to do more hands on cleaning of the exhibits, spraying things down...picking up dino droppings, catering to the more docile dinosaurs or feeding the more deadly ones by other means. This I could see the sleeping mechanic being implemented into and having a purpose.
It's their game and if that's the reason given we will just have to accept it, whether we like it or we think it is a good reason or not.
Again, personally, if you aren't able to tell by other means and icons whether your dino is sick or just snoozing than perhaps a park management game isn't for you, kid or not. I mean, my son is only 3 but I'm sure if I showed him, even through trial and error a couple of times he'd be successful at telling the difference.
While I usually don't side with the immersion crowd, I'm going to have to agree here. There is just something off about having a park management game where the animals don't sleep. I also don't buy the explanation of us not being able to differentiate between sleeping healthy and sleeping sick, not to mention that I also feel if that was one of the reasons then why not spend a bit more time making the animations more unique.
I also feel like it might have been a missed opportunity to have it add to the management of the park. Sleeping dinos will lose stats the longer they sleep so you could try to balance their energy needs by having things in the exhibits that add to their energy or relax them so they don't lose energy as quickly. If you can't adequately maintain their stats they begin to sleep more often and then the exhibits become less popular and start losing money. Perhaps you could then use a special tranq to boost the energy for a moment, but this could also lead to negative side effects.
Of course those ideas could be something tied to a type of DINO UPKEEP expansion where they can implement some of the features from Zoo Tycoon. Perhaps allowing us to do more hands on cleaning of the exhibits, spraying things down...picking up dino droppings, catering to the more docile dinosaurs or feeding the more deadly ones by other means. This I could see the sleeping mechanic being implemented into and having a purpose.
It's their game and if that's the reason given we will just have to accept it, whether we like it or we think it is a good reason or not.
Again, personally, if you aren't able to tell by other means and icons whether your dino is sick or just snoozing than perhaps a park management game isn't for you, kid or not. I mean, my son is only 3 but I'm sure if I showed him, even through trial and error a couple of times he'd be successful at telling the difference.
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This debate is something else. How do you guys have that much patience to write detailed posts to reply to “it’s boring”, “it’s not a dino sim”, “they aren’t real”.
I completely forgot about that wrinkly skin feature. [haha] 3 different indicators of the dinosaurs being sick, I’m just not seeing the Frontier vision on this at all.
I take issue with your forum signature - you missed out Frog destroys God...
The question is how would Frog destroy God. Also where would Dinosaur fit in there, I like my Meteor punchline and it has to go in a circle. [haha]
Wait, so you haven't played the games that people are applauding for their brilliant design yet you think it's good of Frontier to 'be different' and not include the features that made those games so great because 'it takes balls'? Explain that one to me.
Secondly, how exactly is it ballsy of Frontier to not include a fairly basic feature such as sleeping? Sleeping???
This is my thought on the sleeping issue.
Because there is no night/day cycle the dinosaurs don't have any sort of stat to indicate if they are Nocturnal or Diurnal. The lack of a day/night cycle also meant they did not need to attempt to make such a system work. This means we can put any dinosaur we want on any of the islands regardless of their eternal time of day without issue.
Sure this hurts immersion a bit but I don't feel that it was so important that it hurts the game all that much. It is something I can accept as an update/expansion to help give all of the islands some extra replay value simply due to the possibility of a Nocturnal/Diurnal System to go with it.
Because there is no night/day cycle the dinosaurs don't have any sort of stat to indicate if they are Nocturnal or Diurnal. The lack of a day/night cycle also meant they did not need to attempt to make such a system work. This means we can put any dinosaur we want on any of the islands regardless of their eternal time of day without issue.
Sure this hurts immersion a bit but I don't feel that it was so important that it hurts the game all that much. It is something I can accept as an update/expansion to help give all of the islands some extra replay value simply due to the possibility of a Nocturnal/Diurnal System to go with it.
It's easier than that, they aren't real and don't need to sleep. Sleeping Dinosaurs adds nothing to the gameplay. It's just a pointless nicety that some players want, some more than others. They want it cause they want to see it. Not because it will add anything meaningful to the game.
It’s just a nice dash of realism. Immersion is an essential part of gameplay and far from a “pointless nicety.” Watching their lifelike behavior is half the reason to play a game like this. Just look at how limited the building options are (for now). The dinosaurs are clearly the star of the show. Watch the Indominus profile - you can literally see its breath inflating it’s nasal passages. It isn’t real. It doesn’t need to breathe. But they worked really hard to bring them to life anyway. They eat, they drink, they socialize, they fight. Why on earth shouldn’t they nap once in a while? It’s not a dealbreaker or anything, but I don’t understand how anyone could think it’s a superfluous request.
By that logic why should the Dinosaurs need to do anything, their not real right? Might as well be a park full of animatronics. And immersion is meaningless to a game? I think that is incorrect. Immersion is important to any sort of media, doesn't matter if it is a book, movie, play, or a video game. The more life like something is presented as the more invested people become in it. This is why people are angry about dinosaurs not being able to sleep naturally and that they would die if not moved or woken in time. It would have been one thing for the dinosaurs to die if they were given too much tranquilizer but that is not what we were told on that issue. I just tried to explain why we may not have sleeping dinosaurs. This is a game based in the world of Jurassic World not our own, so the dinosaurs should act like real animals like they do in the films and books.