No New "Bubble" Please

[Commander William Diffin]

I don't see a lore related need, incentive, nor rational and realistic chance of creating a new "bubble" out in some remote location just because Jaques Station fell out of witch space there.

Well as an explorer I actually like the idea of a remote outpost, especially now that we've got one, and I don't really care about whether it forms a new Bubble or not. But... I was against the whole Jaques Station plot thread in the first place, and still am in theory.

It all started with the Distant Worlds Expedition to Ceeckia ZQ-L C24-0, the furthest point in the game from Sol pre-Jumponium or Engineers, deliberately sought out and discovered by Cmdr Erimus I believe. This system was given the popular name of 'Beagle Point', presumably after the British space probe that successfully landed on Mars in AD2003, but failed to return any data because no one was around to give it a kick. The indulgent British-bias of this name didn't sit well with me from the start, considering that Beagle 2 didn't work properly, and especially considering all of the monumentally greater achievements of other space agencies, including the more contemporary New Horizons probe that successfully reconnoitred as far out as Pluto for the first time, and is not celebrated in ED at all. [Or is it? I don't know.]

Anyway. So a thousand-odd players of the DWE had to go to 'Beagle Point'. So then FDev had to start a plot thread whereby a space station, c'est-à-dire Jaques Station, attempted a single jump to Beagle Point. Which is totally outrageous. Ships can't jump more than 58L-y, so why should a huge structure like a space station be able to jump 65,000L-y? I complained at the time and expressed the opinion that I hoped Jaques would engage its FSD and disappear from the Galaxy altogether, and was quite pleased when exactly that apparently happened.

In all exploration threads I have posted on, I have been pushing for greater control over exploration for explorers, through increased features for explorers, sometimes against aggressive opposition from players and moderators. I had originally hoped that explorers would eventually be able to found their own obscure little settlements using specialist modules, which other players could visit or even fight over, out deep in the Black. That plainly will never happen now, at least not until ED is so outdated that FDev don't mind people modding it. Still I would be happy to settle for ship-to-ship docking, trade and AFMU repair, docking bays for Anacondas, flag and beacon-planting, more detailed planet surface/atmosphere descriptions, including specific features, and exploration limpets like Beagle 2s fired at planets for bonus data. But instead I got Jaques.

But now that Jaques has re-appeared 22,000L-y outside the Bubble, it makes such a welcome motorway service station for explorers that I don't really care how it got there any longer. Or if it turns into Bubble 2. And if the station becomes the hub of a new storyline for explorers, so much the better.

 

[varonica]

This system was given the popular name of 'Beagle Point', presumably after the British space probe that successfully landed on Mars in AD2003, but failed to return any data because no one was around to give it a kick. The indulgent British-bias of this name didn't sit well with me from the start, considering that Beagle 2 didn't work properly, and especially considering all of the monumentally greater achievements of other space agencies, including the more contemporary New Horizons probe that successfully reconnoitred as far out as Pluto for the first time, and is not celebrated in ED at all. [Or is it? I don't know.]

The Beagle, more precisely HMS beagle, was the ship Darwin traveled around the world in prior to writing and releasing his seminal work, it's likely the Beagle that landed on mars was named after this ship, and more likely that Beagle Point was also named after this ship than the failed mars probe. There are stations and planets named after sci-fi writers and famous people and events of many countries, to claim "indulgent British-bias" seems to me to demonstrate some sort of anti-British sentiment rather than the former being "indulgent British bias." Just a thought!

 

[Nelina]

Thinking of a new bubble, the new bubble sgould have a benefit for everyone who settles down there.
Either those Systems are richer wich Materials or should have political/religious benefits.
I guess not many would travel so far, for not having some benefits for their emigration.

Instead of a new bubble i guess there should be some smaller colonies outside of the bubble with settlers who emigrated because of religious, criminal, political or other reasons.
Would be nice to find some mormons 7000ly outside the bubble or something like that

 

[BacchusZA]

Forgive me if this point has already been raised, but one very good reason occurs to me for establishing a comprehensive, yet remote, outpost of human civilisation.

Thargoids (or whichever aliens it is we encounter).

Now, I imagine FD aren't going to make them godlike powerful. I do however expect them to make these hostile aliens a tough nut to crack, and are going to leave it up to us as a community to resist their incursions and beat them back, most likely by means of community goals.

So what happens if we flubb a few of those community goals, and the hostile invaders start making large inroads into human space, all looks bleak, and the end is nigh? Don't you think that it'd be quite handy to have a remote outpost of humanity, very well separated from the current Bubble, which the hostile aliens hopefully don't know anything about, or perhaps won't care about? And consider the fun to be had with evacuation based CGs, gathering materials for Ark Ships, escorting convoys, fighting desperate battles to slow down the invaders as they march inexorably on the evacuation centers, and the like?

And the longer this story-line continues, and the more features are introduced to the game - atmospheric landings, space legs, and so on - imagine how much depth could be added to these "fight off the genocidal horde" activities? A high risk mission to Terra, down on the surface, to recover priceless cultural artifacts, in the middle of an alien invasion, encompassing space, atmospheric, and surface combat, in a multi-chain mission?

 

[Globusdiablo]

...Expansion into a remote location just for the kicks of it isn't appealing to me at all. It seems fairly artificial, contrived, and frankly rather narrow minded...

I'm wondering if it could be understood as a move towards creating different "arenas". The first primary bubble for newcomers and casual players, with all the traditional missions/content, and other future bubbles requiring a dedicated effort to reach, leaning more toward specific survival/conflict/exploration content? Maybe with higher risks-rewards-payouts?

 

[Cmdr Aeries Hunter]

Might just be arguing semantics, but I'd rather not have the same old just at a remote location out near the galactic core. I think it's an important distinction though as it's related to how people view it and the meaning, lore, and appeal behind it.

A group of exploration and research base stations that end up being self sufficient is near the extent I would personally care for and find compelling and meaningful. I'm thinking something along the lines of the camps and research stations set up in Antarctica.

Expansion into a remote location just for the kicks of it isn't appealing to me at all. It seems fairly artificial, contrived, and frankly rather narrow minded.

On the other hand, something that might make more sense given the circumstances... How much thought was really given to evacuating Jaques Station? Granted, this is somewhat of a rhetorical question. But, should it be?

We'll see how this all plays out, of course. I'm just hoping for perhaps a bit more substance and a bit less pageantry.

Your thoughts?

...

PS: Still on my way with 216t. Hope to make it within the week.

...

Further clarification of what I mean...

When I'm referring to the "bubble" I'm talking about the volume of all of human colonized space near Sol, most of which is empty, and some of which still contains undiscovered virgin stellar systems.

I don't see a lore related need, incentive, nor rational and realistic chance of creating a new "bubble" out in some remote location just because Jaques Station fell out of witch space there.

Sure, maybe in a few hundred years there could be a full galactic Power equivalent there with many different factions, etc.

...

For further clarification of what I'm getting at, here is Erimus's post later in the thread and my response to it...


Apologies if I've come across as insulting anyone in particular. That wasn't my intent.

Since there are a lot of permit locked systems on the other side of the core, it makes sense to have a second bubble as a future staging point for whatever is planned for the future.

 

[Commander William Diffin]

The Beagle, more precisely HMS beagle, was the ship Darwin traveled around the world in prior to writing and releasing his seminal work, it's likely the Beagle that landed on mars was named after this ship, and more likely that Beagle Point was also named after this ship than the failed mars probe. There are stations and planets named after sci-fi writers and famous people and events of many countries, to claim "indulgent British-bias" seems to me to demonstrate some sort of anti-British sentiment rather than the former being "indulgent British bias." Just a thought!

I know. I've read the books. And 'anti-British sentiment'. You think?

 

[Hydrino]

When the Empire and Federation start decimating each other and the Thargoids come in for the scraps, humanity will want somewhere to run and hide and heal and rebuild and ultimately to launch revenge.

This will be the purpose of the new bubble. It will be exciting to watch as millions of humans make the trek to Jacques and start up all the same silly politics, cronyism, and wealth hoarding as always.

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Forgive me if this point has already been raised, but one very good reason occurs to me for establishing a comprehensive, yet remote, outpost of human civilisation.

Thargoids (or whichever aliens it is we encounter).

Now, I imagine FD aren't going to make them godlike powerful. I do however expect them to make these hostile aliens a tough nut to crack, and are going to leave it up to us as a community to resist their incursions and beat them back, most likely by means of community goals.

So what happens if we flubb a few of those community goals, and the hostile invaders start making large inroads into human space, all looks bleak, and the end is nigh? Don't you think that it'd be quite handy to have a remote outpost of humanity, very well separated from the current Bubble, which the hostile aliens hopefully don't know anything about, or perhaps won't care about? And consider the fun to be had with evacuation based CGs, gathering materials for Ark Ships, escorting convoys, fighting desperate battles to slow down the invaders as they march inexorably on the evacuation centers, and the like?

And the longer this story-line continues, and the more features are introduced to the game - atmospheric landings, space legs, and so on - imagine how much depth could be added to these "fight off the genocidal horde" activities? A high risk mission to Terra, down on the surface, to recover priceless cultural artifacts, in the middle of an alien invasion, encompassing space, atmospheric, and surface combat, in a multi-chain mission?

Dream on dreamer.
+1

 

[varonica]

I know. I've read the books. And 'anti-British sentiment'. You think?

To be honest I can't really think of any other reason for you making that comment, you may have one, but for the life of me I can't think of it. I would no more make a comment like that than I would similar comment about America, France or indeed any other country in the world. You are welcome to put up a reasoned explanation and if it has merit I will withdraw my comment.

 

[salad]

My dream scenario is the Thargoids occupying the current bubble forcing us to flee to Jaques station en masse just like Battlestar Galactica.

I know it will never happen but one can dream.

 

[Maruun]

The new bubble would be essential a place for people for refugees that dont want to be dragged into a war between the empire and federation. Not to mention that the new bubble is so far away that the greater faction will have a hard time establish any power in the new bubble...new independent colonies factions and systems will rose out of it.

The Jaques Bubble would essential open a way for story and lore wise to give pilots room to establish their own factions, bases, outpost ect if FD ever wants to go that route.
It could essential turn into 0.0 Sec of ED, a completley player driven bubble. Far away enough to stand on its own without interfering with the major powers.

This is all speculations!It all depends on if FD wants to allow it...i am still betting on season 3 being "Eliteangerous Frontiers"

 

[RedDragonSwords]

Since fd drew in a bunch of players who have a mentality that can't deal with things taking time to do, fsd's now routinely exceed 30ly. Sometimes over 40. A separate bubble thousands of ly away is a good way to make the galaxy large again.

So absent of that, fsd's should be nerfed back so that 100ly is a big deal.

Do you mean Xbox players? The description sounds rather... fitting. All jokes aside, I think there shouldn't be tampering with FSD ranges by FD - a well-built ASP or Anaconda should definitely always be able to jump more than 40ly (Asp only with engineering mods/Anaconda when stripped down or engineer mods)

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The Beagle, more precisely HMS beagle, was the ship Darwin traveled around the world in prior to writing and releasing his seminal work, it's likely the Beagle that landed on mars was named after this ship, and more likely that Beagle Point was also named after this ship than the failed mars probe. There are stations and planets named after sci-fi writers and famous people and events of many countries, to claim "indulgent British-bias" seems to me to demonstrate some sort of anti-British sentiment rather than the former being "indulgent British bias." Just a thought!

Nope - neither explanations are true. Beagle Point has been named after the ship of it's discoverer Erimus Kamzel, DSS (Deep Space Surveyor) Beagle. Although he might have name his ship after the HMS Beagle

 

[Ca$hback]

Most of my reasons are aesthetic. I hate seeing an empire broken into two pieces. It looks tacky on a map, unless there's ocean in-between. Why can't players' actions affect the bubble we already have? Why can't we expand in an intuitive fashion rather than have an arbitrarily chosen spot designated as "where player's can affect things"? I can't help but draw a colored bubble encompassing all human worlds and this would create a thin string between the two that would need filling out. I also find the reasons people are defending to be confusing. You give them a tiny corner of the sandbox and tell them they're free. You want them to have the whole sandbox free and they say, don't take away my freedom. Arbitrary and simplistic. Non-intuitive. I find it diminishes the game but not something I'd quit over.

 

[kofeyh]

Most of my reasons are aesthetic.

Most of mine are logical. Expansion has occurred as a consequence of a stranded station being aided by humanity. Commanders went and aided the station, despite the range. It's a bit of a reflection of actual world outcomes, where people generally do not give a crap about others, until there is some sort of calamity and suddenly Red-Cross is inundated with funds (for example).

A thing can be aesthetically pleasing, but completely devoid of logic and reason. If Jaques was 2000ly from the bubble, it achieves very little. The bubble distorts. Now? There is a pocket of occupation in a location where different dynamics can be at play. It's not specifically bound to the same outcomes, even if similar rules are in place.

How will factions influence outcomes? Will major powers intervene? There are a billion ways frontier can spin this, however they are not known for subtle change and a strong grasp of 'immersion' so it's only going to have so much lore or whatever attached.

We have to remember that to Frontier it's a passion for doing what they love, and hopefully building a pretty likable game; for us, it's far more about why; for them? why not.