No Single Player Offline Mode then? [Part 2]

[foxpur]

By buying the beta access you also bought the full game. The store stated "On the game's full release you also get the Elite: Dangerous Mercenary Edition". This means the full game was part of the price paid. Stating otherwise would imply that the game's full release included in the beta package is worth zero, which is clearly not the case.

Basically the beta program was a bundle: for the "beta testing" part I agree that no refund is due, but the full game part was paid too and that part was promised to include offline mode.

You actually state why you can't get a refund on the game in your own post... let me explain..
Your post: The store stated "On the game's full release you also get the Elite: Dangerous Mercenary Edition".

You never BUY the game, you GET the game. It is given too you for paying and playing into the Beta. It's all in the words.

 

[bsolar]

indeed getting the game when released. However, participation in the test program and early bird reservation of final release grants no legal rights, express or implied to influence features in the final release, nor does a purchase of such legally oblige FD, or their staff, to include specific proposed features. Their editorial and design decision is final.

Nobody claims otherwise, but this is not what happened here. Here people requested Frontier for information about a feature in the final version of the game and Frontier answered in no ambiguous way that said feature was going to be present in the final version. When said feature is dropped it's clear those who based their decision on the official information received should get a refund for their final version purchase.

The fact that the final version purchase is bundled in the beta program doesn't change this, it only muddies a little the issue since you have to separate the beta program bundle's price in its components to be able to refund what deservers a refund and not refund what doesn't deserve a refund.

 

[DaveS1]

I suspect Cathy that they're afriad that many who really aren't interested in the offline game will nonetheless pretend to be in order to get a refund and then buy the game for a much cheaper price. If so you can see their point.

That seems highly unlikely. Why would someone pledge some cash, hand it over (possibly nearly 2 years ago), wait a long time and then try to save a few quid 5 weeks before release? I mean, if your master plan for saving a couple of beer's worth of cold-hard relied on FD making a radical and unacceptable change just before release date then you are not really in Bond super villain territory.

 

[Vlodec]

That is very much not true. We have plenty of posts by accounts that are a day old or less, whether they are legitimate or not, declaring how unsatisfied they are. And of course the whole debate about refunds, DRM, the future of ED if FD were to shut down, etc.

Just chalking this up to the "online crowd" is too easy. Or did you mean the "offline crowd"? Either way, my point stands

You edited my post such as to alter the meaning. I mentioned "sporadic eruptions" if you recall.

 

[Greyshadow]

Indeed - it's a tiny minority and not worth anyone stressing over.

Michael

Really if this number is so small then why are you guys not refunding people who have already played the beta then? If you ask me you should offer the refunds to those people who don't want your product anymore because offline mode is being taken out because it won't affect you guys much right?

 

[Vlodec]

That seems highly unlikely. Why would someone pledge some cash, hand it over (possibly nearly 2 years ago), wait a long time and then try to save a few quid 5 weeks before release? I mean, if your master plan for saving a couple of beer's worth of cold-hard relied on FD making a radical and unacceptable change just before release date then you are not really in Bond super villain territory.

Quite so, but I have noticed that when a few pounds ready cash is in prospect people aren't always rational.

No, I'll amend that, people are frequently irrational.

 

[Tony Spaniels]

Quite. My distaste is total.

As is mine. Shameful.

 

[Sagan]

Hazarding a guess but your account was flagged as kickstarter and they missed the detail whilst rushing to get through them? A possibility at least

That's what I presumed... hence why I put in the second request to cancel the Elite: Dangerous - Lifetime Expansion Pass (bought from the shop). That was over 2 days ago, and still waiting for a reply.

 

[jabokai]

Really if this number is so small then why are you guys not refunding people who have already played the beta then? If you ask me you should offer the refunds to those people who don't want your product anymore because offline mode is being taken out because it won't affect you guys much right?

He was talking about the idiots that had threatened him personally in that quote.

 

[Drexen]

Really if this number is so small then why are you guys not refunding people who have already played the beta then? If you ask me you should offer the refunds to those people who don't want your product anymore because offline mode is being taken out because it won't affect you guys much right?

I think it's the people who are making personal threats that are the small minority.

 

[Tony Spaniels]

Ah, been ninja'd

 

[Listeri69]

Indeed - it's a tiny minority and not worth anyone stressing over.

Michael

Well everyone here at Dockers loves our huggable wookie and any threats are really beyond the pail. I understand this decision wasn't taken easily, but there is no need to get personal with everything......

 

[CMDR Don't Shoot]

I myself requested a partial refund, but just to make a point and show solidarity with those truly affected... if they actually offered that partial refund (zero chance, I do not fit the criteria) I'd just refuse it anyway!

So why did you do it? don't you think the people at FD have enough on their plates? I would LOVE to be proven wrong but I'd be willing to bet they are working day and night to get 3.9 out, right now probably getting the last few tests done. KNOWING that it's buggy in ways they can't predict yet. They've got two days to fix it before gamma goes out. They're tired, overworked, management is dealing with a different kind of life-affecting stress and some are being threatened.

You decide to add to that stress and workload to show solidarity with the group that is threatening them and for nothing? you wouldn't accept the refund anyway?

 

[jabokai]

So why did you do it? don't you think the people at FD have enough on their plates? I would LOVE to be proven wrong but I'd be willing to bet they are working day and night to get 3.9 out, right now probably getting the last few tests done. KNOWING that it's buggy in ways they can't predict yet. They've got two days to fix it before gamma goes out. They're tired, overworked, management is dealing with a different kind of life-affecting stress and some are being threatened.

You decide to add to that stress and workload to show solidarity with the group that is threatening them and for nothing? you wouldn't accept the refund anyway?

I told you why... you even quoted me! And that it will definitely be refused.

They will have different staff dealing with emails, etc. I have my doubts that the developers are opening refund requests. (because 1 wasn't enough!)

Love your dramatic prose though, you should try writing a tragic play!

 

[hypergreatthing]

You actually state why you can't get a refund on the game in your own post... let me explain..
Your post: The store stated "On the game's full release you also get the Elite: Dangerous Mercenary Edition".

You never BUY the game, you GET the game. It is given too you for paying and playing into the Beta. It's all in the words.

If you want to take this route, then we never were in the beta to begin with. We were playing some stable version of development, not the cutting edge one with features and real bugs with swaths of time in between updates.

That's not a beta. Betas are test builds that may not even work.

Just like a release of a product is not called gamma, it's just making up stuff.

 

[foxpur]

That's what I presumed... hence why I put in the second request to cancel the Elite: Dangerous - Lifetime Expansion Pass (bought from the shop). That was over 2 days ago, and still waiting for a reply.

I just talked this over with a lawyer on this very subject (just cuz I was wondering from this coming up a short time ago) and he says it's the same as buying a Warranty. You are paying for something that MAY happen. Since it is a 1-off payment it is technically non-refundable. You can't get your money back an a Warranty, it's a form of insurance.

EDIT: They don't HAVE to, but they could... always worth trying.

 

[Smackz]

All I know is I'm mad at myself for shelling out 75 bux, for once again trying to trust what a game developer says they are going to deliver and in the end its just take what they what to give (after they get your money) But alas I tried it in open play so now I cant get a refund.
I wont be backing anymore early game development from anymore companies. It's just not worth it, they all promise the moon but when the game gets to your hands, well..any gamer knows how that ends up. As an adult I should have known better than to this, guess it was just wishfull thinking.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Indeed - it's a tiny minority and not worth anyone stressing over.

No, but let the Police know all the same ... sometimes people need help and this might be their way of reaching out for some

 

[Schwarzwolf]

I'm starting to get seriously tired of this "hard choice" line. Its only a hard choice because they designed it that way.

Yep, thats aswell something how i see it. The game has to be designed this way. Normaly, they should have taken their promised features into account and should have developed the game on this feature. "Like, can this work offline? How can we ensure this offline? Could i do it a bit different, so it is working offline." Might be true, that there would have been some compromises, but i doubt that this couldn't have been done, if they really wanted to do it.

But how it seems for me, that was never their goal. How they have written. They had their vision and this was an online game. So they designed the game completely on their vision. After this they looked into it, if they can convert it to offline. After they have seen, that it wasn't possible, how they programmed it (not counting now, if in a simple or difficult way), they skipped it.
If it never was one of their main goals, only something they would have done, if it is possible without compromises, they shouldn't have written "Yes, we will have an offline mode." They should have written "We might have an online mode, but we can't tell now." or skip it completly. But after they have promised it, they should have keeped to it. And yes, i would be for a refund for everybody who ask for one, because of this feature. It was promised and after skipping it, its not the game anymore they ordered. Even if they played the alpha/beta or anything else of it. And no. Offline isn't a small minor feature.

But how it seems, its not OUR vision of the game, its their vision. Peoples should be careful. One day there will come a 100+ page pdf with a number declaring how you have to play the game to keep in their vision.
There will be a generated number, who can be break down to the job you have to do ingame, the playstyle you have to take and how you have to act.
If you actually play the game in another way, you will be banned and your account will be taken over by their famous online NPC and you won't get a refund.
If you want to play the game again, you have to buy it again and you will get another pdf with a new number. But be aware. If you play the game in another way as descriped, it will repeat.
The pdf is most likely titled "This is how the game is fun and ensure the ~vision~."
The text shouldn't be taken to serously, but i think it gets the message. (I only hope, they wouldn't get bad ideas from my text.)

 

[bsolar]

You actually state why you can't get a refund on the game in your own post... let me explain..
Your post: The store stated "On the game's full release you also get the Elite: Dangerous Mercenary Edition".

You never BUY the game, you GET the game. It is given too you for paying and playing into the Beta. It's all in the words.

If I get it it's because I purchased it. You cannot claim that bundling the full game as part of the beta program has no effect on the willingness to pay of the customers. Let me explain...

Without the game's full release included, would the beta program have been worth less or it would have been worth the same?

It's ridiculous to claim that without the full release included the beta program would have been worth the same, it would mean that the game's full release is worth exactly zero... It's pretty clear that when customers bought the beta program, the full game was part of the deal and had an impact on what they were willing to pay.

The full game was purchased, only its price is hidden and bundled together with the beta program's price, but this doesn't make it less a purchase.