No disrespect taken at all, I know exactly where you're coming from.
Sure - those guys are busy making a game though! I was just adding in my perspective.
No Single Player Offline Mode then? [Part 2]
- Thread starter Brett C
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No disrespect taken at all, I know exactly where you're coming from.
Sure - those guys are busy making a game though! I was just adding in my perspective.
I have to disagree. We have wi-fi and even in third world countries they could run this game. When 'hinderance' becomes the focal point of a debate, it's like throwing the dumby out of the pram because "I can't get my own way", this is what it boils down to. Since we're still beta and the rest of the factions or alien races have not even been added yet. They could span hundreds of light years in either direction, far from being empty. Seems many have time to connect to the forums to have a good whinge, why not connect to the game like many of you already have and have fun. Even if it's just to kill me and hunt me down.
Shok.
I posted this before, perhaps it will help you understand how things will work compared to how we wanted (and were promised) things to work:
Of course that's the other thing - there will be some cracker out there flexing his fingers right now to attack the game client, hack up a playable local game mode and then parade the resulting cracked offline L33t Dangerous in front of the global gaming press. At which point FD saying 'But.... but... it doesn't conform to our _vision_ so _we_ couldn't have done that' will be subject to widespread ridicule.
So, if that's going to happen anyway, FD, embrace the inevitable, pre-empt it, don't make it adversarial, facilitate it & own it as a good officially blessed solution for the problem of people who were told there would be an offline mode. Otherwise, the world will probably end up playing L33t Dangerous and not even feeling bad about it...
To be fair reading between the lines the reason they have ditched off-line single player is not DRM or that it can’t be done. It’s that to do it they would have to expose code they use on the servers that would allow people to discover the secrets of their online universe and potentially gain advantage in the online game. They will also be harvesting your interactions in single player to feed the evolving galaxy and improve it for online players and couldn’t do that if you were off-line.
For them this is purely a business decision rather than really a technical decision I believe. It’s the fact that the online game is easier to turn into a regular income stream down the road so the integrity of that must be protected at any cost.
I do have further concern about how necessary Micro transactions might have to be to enjoy the game if they have to use that revenue stream alone to fund the servers given the capacity they will need if no one can even play single player off line. The alternative will be shutting it down or introducing a subscription fee if micro transactions aren’t bringing in the funds they need. I know they have given assurances that Micro transactions will not be necessary to enjoy the game, but they also promised us it would have an off-line mode in both cases they may or may not have meant it at the time and only time will tell how they will fund the servers and turn this into a regular profit generator. They are a business after all so making money is their ultimate aim.
For them this is purely a business decision rather than really a technical decision I believe. It’s the fact that the online game is easier to turn into a regular income stream down the road so the integrity of that must be protected at any cost.
I do have further concern about how necessary Micro transactions might have to be to enjoy the game if they have to use that revenue stream alone to fund the servers given the capacity they will need if no one can even play single player off line. The alternative will be shutting it down or introducing a subscription fee if micro transactions aren’t bringing in the funds they need. I know they have given assurances that Micro transactions will not be necessary to enjoy the game, but they also promised us it would have an off-line mode in both cases they may or may not have meant it at the time and only time will tell how they will fund the servers and turn this into a regular profit generator. They are a business after all so making money is their ultimate aim.
Clearly, having Mr Braben apologize on a video wasn't enough. Let's all band together and get him and the rest before us awaiting their just punishments for daring to displease you by completing the game while losing another aspect of it. I understand empathy and I understand whining for virtually no reason. So you have to connect to the internet, whoopee doo. You're connected to it now. How about putting all that rage and anger and sense of displeasure into your guns and hunting me down.
Shok.
You can't decently assume what's been calculated under the hood on the other side of the connection from the size of the packet you receive.
But I don't know why I'm still arguing.
I'll have a double portion of FE2+++ please.
This, this I would be content with. It may not be revolutionary, it may not be innovative, but for me, it would be fun. All I want is a game to call my own and to play with as I please. If I had wanted visions, I could have hopped on a train to Amsterdam and had some unforgettable visions for a fraction of the cost of the game.
And please, guys, can you stop trying to belittle us with phrases like "just give it a try", "you are just confused" etc. . If you think we are somehow mistaken in our request for a refund or in our disappointment with FD, it's perfectly ok to let us know, we'll probably soon fill another thread with the debate, but that's ok. But there is absolutely no point in trying to get us to change our minds about the things we like and the things we don't like. You are never going to reprogram our personal tastes, so please, just accept the fact that there are people out there with preferences and expectations completely different from your own. I can't believe this even has to be said once, let alone repeated time and time again.
That's not the customer's problem. If I promise offline mode and design the game so that offline is impractical to implement and end up not being able to deliver the promised feature, I made a mistake and I should take full responsibility for it.
"Taking responsibility" should not end with giving an apology, no matter how appreciated.
Could? In the UK it'd be a tap-in. Magistrate in Small Claims takes a look at the pre-order plus the beta upgrade, then looks at the beta package at the same price. Asks FDEV what the "material difference" is between the two packages? When FDEV is unable to provide anything coherently sensible beyond "Oh you get some rewards for being a beta backer" which isn't a functional difference as far as the law sees it, Magistrate chuckles politely, waves a hand and tells FDEV to stop being so silly and refund the £35. You lose the difference because yes, you opened and used the "Beta access" components, -that- part is no longer refundable, but you're entirely within your rights to cancel your pre-order and get back the retail value of the game.
Honestly? I think at this point FDEV are counting on it not going to Trading Standards or Small Claims, because if it goes to any form of legal inspection it's going to get a hole punched through it in seconds. Selling beta access as a way to circumvent the sale of goods act by removing the "sale value" of the final product just won't fly, because the test isn't whether someone versed in the more arcane intersections of law (note : IANAL, but I was forced to study a fair sum due to being deeply involved in licensing, intellectual property and trademark matters), but is instead looked at from the perspective of the "average consumer", who would most definitely not know the difference, and would see it as a pre-order with beta access tossed in.
If you tried to sit down with us and talk about the issue before, many of current hate, agression and unpleasentness woul'd never happen. It is another major mistake FD has made IMO.
hi
I just wanted to say a couple of things, hopefully someone up in management will read this, though at this point it doesn't really matter.
I did NOT support the project through kickstarter. I have not in any form pre-ordered this game. For a variety of reasons. One was I don't trust any kickstarter efforts no matter who is behind. Two, I do not trust pre orders since in my almost 40 years of being alive, I have seen pre orders (unfinished games) change a lot and 9/10 times the gamer getting all the pain while the developer/publisher getting all the money.
Three, I was not convinced about the DRM-FREE and offline parts of the game were going to be part of the final product. I could see through all the PR talk and how they avoided the issue when possible.
From the 80's I bought all the Elite games (Atari ST and PC) and had many hours of fun with them.
With all my heart I would gladly pay to buy a drm free and offline version of this game. Perhaps through GOG, or DotEmu or of course directly through FD. But, as soon as I heard these news, I knew it I am never going to buy your game. I don't feel betrayed because I never paid you for this game, since as I mentioned I never trusted you. I am sorry to see how you are indeed what I feared and I feel sorry for the people who basically funded your project only for you to say thank you for the money, goodbye, we are not going to make the game you supported, but the game which (right or wrong is irrelevant) will probably bring more money. After all you don't need your backers any more, the game is almost ready.
It was a blow below the belt (heh) and I am sorry for all those hurt by this.
If DB or FD or whoever, decides to cut the and actually release the game also as drm-free OFFLINE game, even without any multiplayer support, I will gladly buy it.
Till then, for shame.
I just wanted to say a couple of things, hopefully someone up in management will read this, though at this point it doesn't really matter.
I did NOT support the project through kickstarter. I have not in any form pre-ordered this game. For a variety of reasons. One was I don't trust any kickstarter efforts no matter who is behind. Two, I do not trust pre orders since in my almost 40 years of being alive, I have seen pre orders (unfinished games) change a lot and 9/10 times the gamer getting all the pain while the developer/publisher getting all the money.
Three, I was not convinced about the DRM-FREE and offline parts of the game were going to be part of the final product. I could see through all the PR talk and how they avoided the issue when possible.
From the 80's I bought all the Elite games (Atari ST and PC) and had many hours of fun with them.
With all my heart I would gladly pay to buy a drm free and offline version of this game. Perhaps through GOG, or DotEmu or of course directly through FD. But, as soon as I heard these news, I knew it I am never going to buy your game. I don't feel betrayed because I never paid you for this game, since as I mentioned I never trusted you. I am sorry to see how you are indeed what I feared and I feel sorry for the people who basically funded your project only for you to say thank you for the money, goodbye, we are not going to make the game you supported, but the game which (right or wrong is irrelevant) will probably bring more money. After all you don't need your backers any more, the game is almost ready.
It was a blow below the belt (heh) and I am sorry for all those hurt by this.
If DB or FD or whoever, decides to cut the and actually release the game also as drm-free OFFLINE game, even without any multiplayer support, I will gladly buy it.
Till then, for shame.
Ecks Theory
Banned
They didnt make a game for me. Is your money somehow more special than mine? You got the game you wanted, Im happy for you. Is there some reason you think I should pay for your game also?
Give me a moment on that one. Unfortunately, it's a sensitive one, as you can imagine. I can only say as much as has been said already where finance is involved.
Clearly, having Mr Braben apologize on a video wasn't enough. Let's all band together and get him and the rest before us awaiting their just punishments for daring to displease you by completing the game while losing another aspect of it. I understand empathy and I understand whining for virtually no reason. So you have to connect to the internet, whoopee doo. You're connected to it now. How about putting all that rage and anger and sense of displeasure into your guns and hunting me down.
Stop trying to be a whiteknight.
You can play it good for you,then go play it.why is this thread bothering you?
ppl could be using there mobile to post here or even using McDonalds free wifi.
There are prob loads of places in there town center that can offer free wifi that does not mean they have to carry there laptop there to play the game,but they most likely carry there mobiles around.
if it's a desktop computer then that's out of the question.
I could be posting this from a free wifi hotspot.
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Again, that can easily be worked around just by changing the seed.
Limit Theory, for instance, will give you an infinite universe... and a menu option so that you can input your own seed and have an infinite number of possible infinite universes.
As for the rest of your post, yes, metrics and microtransactions are possibilities too.
Although there are plenty of games (Skyrim, for instance) that have neither and still make a nice amount of money just by being good enough to convince hordes of people to buy the game.
Two different products in you FD account, two different receipts, no "change" of Terms for original pre-order...
jeez you sound like FD advertised ED as the one and only fully offline new Elite game. It never was it, it ALWAYS was advertised as Multiplayer Online MMO Elite. The offline mode was a LITTLE icing on the cake. And i gues like 0,0001% of the backers had offline mode as priority in their mind.
i agree is shouldve been comunicated better.
i agree FD should give those people a refund.
i agree discussion should end now ^^
You backed the games development as did I. So it fell short of your expectations. You can still play singleplayer mode. The only thing that changed is the 10kbps connection and a sense of a living galaxy, sorry if you find that hard to accept and it displeases you.
Shok.
I somehow seem to have missed this video.
Could you link to it, please?
Thank you in advance.
Clearly, having Mr Braben apologize on a video wasn't enough. Let's all band together and get him and the rest before us awaiting their just punishments for daring to displease you by completing the game while losing another aspect of it. I understand empathy and I understand whining for virtually no reason. So you have to connect to the internet, whoopee doo. You're connected to it now. How about putting all that rage and anger and sense of displeasure into your guns and hunting me down.
Shok.
Nope, not enough. He made a promise, broke it and tried to weasel out the breaking - he should ideally deliver what he promised or at the very least offer refunds to those that want them. he didn't apologise for dropping offline, he apologised for getting caught.
Why is it an either / or? None of us that want offline have demanded no online, or demanded online be cut down or hampered, we have simply asked for what we were promised.
If you think I am suffering from rage and anger then you clearly have no concept of empathy. That you suggest I play online and gun for you suggests a lot more about you than it does about me. I have no desire to ruin anyone else's experience. You are gloating and strutting because FD have ruined ours.
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