No Single Player offline Mode then?

[Ydiss]

That's wrong. Please stop using terms you don't understand. Limiting installations is only one facet of DRM. DRM is as simple as copy protection for executables. DRM is as simple as an online server you need to authenticate with before you can play the game. You're basically saying Sim City was DRM free, and so is every Steam game, pretty much every game is DRM free except those that limit your installs (of which I can only name Spore and I think that limit was removed).

You're just wrong.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management

I hate linking wikipedia. But the definition of DRM is available in many other locations.

You are not correct. You might think you are. But server authentication has been around for years and predates DRM by several if those years.

ED is DRM free by definition.

Steam is DRM free. I've installed it on more computers than I can count.

DRM is controversial because it is aggressive in piracy prevention. Requiring an internet connection to access content, even on an account system, is not DRM.

 

[littleminxundr]

One more reason not to buy Ubisoft games, especially Unity

But...
My Anno game with the 3 faction monuments build on one island!!
Child of Light!!
Valliant Hearts!!
Nononononono.... I don't buy a lot of Ubisoft, but I'm not going to boycott for no other reason than an install limit. Besides, they have practically dismantled Tages-DRM and are in the process of migrating to something else. And I'll be honest... I like Ubipoints!

 

[wolverine2710]

They did not wait to the last minute, it was decided all along beta, again guys why do you think there was never an interest in testing an offline game mode?. Sadly we were more faithful to frontier than we should have, I'm sorry but even Michael's answers point to a "you should have known this all along"

This is very valid. In the forums the last months/year the real offline mode was mentioned a LOT of times by commanders. Never saw a post by FD correcting those commanders. They basically waited till the very last newsletter to tell us, offline mode is cancelled.And its was mentioned in such a way to spin it as positive as possiböe. Basically ED now is a ´always-on DRM´ game. It seems to ME that we put we put a little bit to much trust in FD.

Wondering what will happen to all the great things mentioned in the DDF-archives. What is their status?
I have this nagging feeling in the comming week(s) we will hear things from FD which we are NOT going to like.

There is a very small line between LYING and NOT telling the WHOLE truth....

 

[jmga]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management

I hate linking wikipedia. But the definition of DRM is available in many other locations.

You are not correct. You might think you are. But server authentication has been around for years and predates DRM by several if those years.

ED is DRM free by definition.

Steam is DRM free. I've installed it on more computers than I can count.

DRM is controversial because it is aggressive in piracy prevention. Requiring an internet connection to access content, even on an account system, is not DRM.

And World of Warcraft it DRM-Free too, don't forget it.

 

[strangerdanger]

SimCity sin was EA withholding truth about it being online game with online integration, not being or not being DRM free.

That doesn't make you any less wrong about, well, everything. Stop claiming DRM is not what it is.

 

[Tim Wheatley]

This is very valid. In the forums the last months/year the real offline mode was mentioned a LOT of times by commanders. Never saw a post by FD correcting those commanders. They basically waited till the very last newsletter to tell us, offline mode is cancelled.And its was mentioned in such a way to spin it as positive as possiböe. Basically ED now is a ´always-on DRM´ game. It seems to ME that we put we put a little bit to much trust in FD.

Wondering what will happen to all the great things mentioned in the DDF-archives. What is their status?
I have this nagging feeling in the comming week(s) we will hear things from FD which we are NOT going to like.

There is a very small line between LYING and NOT telling the WHOLE truth....

I personally only think they have made the decision on this fairly recently, so corrections weren't probably possible earlier. The FD guys all seem like fairly good guys... I just don't think they would mean to deceive.

 

[Atinus]

It specifically states that authentication would be for multiplayer and updates. Not gameplay.

And to sync with the server, which with solo online is required. What they ended up delivering is exactly what the Kickstarter said on that FAQ.

 

[Ydiss]

That's wrong. Please stop using terms you don't understand. Limiting installations is only one facet of DRM. DRM is as simple as copy protection for executables. DRM is as simple as an online server you need to authenticate with before you can play the game. You're basically saying Sim City was DRM free, and so is every Steam game, pretty much every game is DRM free except those that limit your installs (of which I can only name Spore and I think that limit was removed).

You're just wrong.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management

I hate linking wikipedia. But the definition of DRM is available in many other locations.

You are not correct. You might think you are. But server authentication has been around for years and predates DRM by several if those years.

ED is DRM free by definition.

Steam is DRM free. I've installed it on more computers than I can count. I've installed all of the games on my steam account on several PCs. I can copy those games and they can be played by anyone with the right knowledge. DRM was designed to prevent piracy at the source, to prevent the actual copy of digital data.

You claim some games on steam are DRM free because you can play them offline. They're DRM free, yes, but not for that reason. If we're allowed to make up our own definitions of DRM, I could argue all Valve games are DRM because you need steam to run before playing them. But that's just as wrong as your definition.

DRM is controversial because it is aggressive in piracy prevention. Requiring an internet connection to access content, even on an account system, is not DRM. DRM doesn't limit you by an account, it prevents you installing the game on other machines.

I can install non DRM games anywhere I like. I could let my friend play it using my account details. That's not anti piracy. That's not enforcing copyright. That's not possible with DRM. Therefore, that's not DRM.

Please stop spreading misinformation. There's a reason DRM is hated. It's not because some games need you to play online and connect to a server to play. That's been happening for well over a decade.

 

[jmga]

And to sync with the server, which with solo online is required. What they ended up delivering is exactly what the Kickstarter said on that FAQ.

But with solo offline was not required. So now there is not solo offline, it can't be called DRM-Free.

 

[Tim Wheatley]

And to sync with the server, which with solo online is required. What they ended up delivering is exactly what the Kickstarter said on that FAQ.

That was clarified many times as being purely to try to keep the offline galaxy entertaining, nothing to do with what solo mode is.

FD are offering refunds for a reason. I can't believe it's still being debated that solo is offline mode. Michael has clearly defined offline as not being available now, while solo is. Yet you refuse to believe offline was ever not the same thing as solo. Very strange to see that. You're more defensive than Frontier are... lol

You guys do know the only reason why some of us are still posting is to correct misinformation you keep posting, right? Refunds are happening for a reason. Michael has clearly stated solo still exists, offline doesn't. That, in itself, confirms offline isn't solo and never was.

I'd quite like to just get over this and move on, oddly the FDEV protection brigade doesn't want me to. And that's strange as well, I'm not attacking FDEV at all, I'm spending all my time attempting to correct you.

 

[duwoaoaw]

Also DRM free steam games don't actually require steam to be running. GOG games are my preference because of the DRM-free software distribution model which works.

Server side authentication with no offline mode means always online DRM. Sim City always advertised their online connected modes and never said it was DRM-free or offline capable. (The offline bit was added months after release due to the massive backlash which mirrors the backlash here)

 

[Atinus]

But with solo offline was not required. So now there is not solo offline, it can't be called DRM-Free..

Actually, you're conflating offline with DRM-free. But if as is being stated you can put E on multiple machines, download it as many times as you want. Make as many copies as you want. How is that preventing you from lending it to a friend to try out for a weekend?

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

I can't believe it's still being debated that solo is offline mode. Michael has clearly defined offline as not being available now, while solo is. Yet you refuse to believe offline was ever not the same thing as solo. Very strange to see that. You're more defensive than Frontier are... lol

Nobody's debating solo is offline. You're reading some other post.

I said that DRM-free promise was kept, exactly as the Kickstarter stated.

 

[ecgallagher]

I personally only think they have made the decision on this fairly recently, so corrections weren't probably possible earlier. The FD guys all seem like fairly good guys... I just don't think they would mean to deceive.

Your thoughts on this Tim,

What if.... FD made the announcement 2 or 3 months ago? Based on the most of the reactions it does not seem like it would of made any difference.
Those affected by internet access, concerns about future server availability, changing the terms of the KS would have been saying the same things.
Biggest difference is they may have had less refunds to process.

 

[jmga]

Actually, you're conflating offline with DRM-free. But if as is being stated you can put E on multiple machines, download it as many times as you want. Make as many copies as you want. How is that preventing you from lending it to a friend to try out for a weekend?

You can install most actual games on any machines you want, and that does not make them DRM-Free while you need an online account and login to play. Offline mode was not needing any kind of authentication, and that is why it was DRM-Free.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Now Pecisk, I understand the concerns you have about issues like this damaging FD's brand and reputation, and what that could mean for their future. I honestly respect your devotion to them, and it reminds me alot of how a family member will protect their brother/sister regardless of whether they have sinned. I will not enter into an unending debate about semantics.

I don't think it as a sin. I think as mistake. Blunter. Big or small, it doesn't even matter.

If someone claims that this has been some evil plan - I will need more evidence than that.

But please, you need to remember that we are part of that family too. We share Elite memories in the past, and hoped to relive those again 30 years later. All that is now gone for some of us.

I never think in enemies/friends category discussing serious things. And this is serious thing. It is departure. They made decision which will cost them. Still, I fail to see doom and gloom some people claim it here.

 

[Tim Wheatley]

Your thoughts on this Tim,

What if.... FD made the announcement 2 or 3 months ago? Based on the most of the reactions it does not seem like it would of made any difference.
Those affected by internet access, concerns about future server availability, changing the terms of the KS would have been saying the same things.
Biggest difference is they may have had less refunds to process.

For me?

It would have been a lot more time to absorb, and the product would have appeared less complete, making the lack of a feature in an incomplete game make more sense to me.

If they'd have put it in a newsletter in the same way? I might have still been pretty annoyed, regardless of timing.

I'd not have misled as many people (ME, not Frontier), having answered many questions recently about this based on the last given information I had. I'd probably not have felt as bad for many reasons.

So, 2-3 months ago? It would have been easier, but again - it would be down to presentation. I've said multiple times that a statement about this issue was REQUIRED. A quick mention in a newsletter is, to me, a huge disrespect problem.

 

[stimutacs]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management

I hate linking wikipedia. But the definition of DRM is available in many other locations.

Why don't you look up Steam on wikipedia, ctrl-f "DRM", and paste us the results?

 

[5PIDER]

gg......

 

[strangerdanger]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management

I hate linking wikipedia. But the definition of DRM is available in many other locations.

You are not correct. You might think you are. But server authentication has been around for years and predates DRM by several if those years.

ED is DRM free by definition.

Steam is DRM free. I've installed it on more computers than I can count.

DRM is controversial because it is aggressive in piracy prevention. Requiring an internet connection to access content, even on an account system, is not DRM. DRM doesn't limit you by an account, it prevents you installing the game on other machines.

I can install non DRM games anywhere I like. I could let my friend play it using my account details. That's not anti piracy. That's not enforcing copyright. That's not possible with DRM. Therefore, that's not DRM.

Please stop spreading misinformation. There's a reason DRM is hated. It's not because some games need you to play online and connect to a server to play. That's been happening for well over a decade.

Nah, that is also a type of DRM, we just didn't have that label until it was publicized in large part by Microsoft recently. Any game that requires some form of authentication to play it is digital rights management. You activate Windows? That's DRM. You have to stay connected and authenticated to play a game? That's DRM. Your game is limited to a fixed number of installs? That's DRM.

DRM is an umbrella term coined exactly for these cases, since there are many kinds of protections. So, it's just DRM. The article you linked says it best. DRM is methods to control digital products after sale. That's exactly what the ED account/authentication system is.

Funny you would link an article that proves you wrong.

 

[jmga]

For those who keep saying ED is DRM-Free, what makes it different from any other MMO game in DRM terms?