Everyone here has different reasons for backing ED. I played the original Elite and to me it's a core feature to have ability to play offline. For you maybe doesn't matter once the servers get off, you might be already fed up with ED, but for some of us flying in a ship without need to rely on server, lag, updates and other , for some of us it really matters.
No Single Player offline Mode then?
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Everyone here has different reasons for backing ED. I played the original Elite and to me it's a core feature to have ability to play offline. For you maybe doesn't matter once the servers get off, you might be already fed up with ED, but for some of us flying in a ship without need to rely on server, lag, updates and other , for some of us it really matters.
"From time to time" means whenever you interact with the environment, such as buying/selling goods at a starport (confirmed by Michael Brookes). I would say also jumping into a new instance and things like that as well require communication with the server. Game saves are server-side, not on your PC. Bottom line: a consistent internet connection is required to play the game.
I'm personally not that passionate about the Offline mode, but I understand people who are.
And if running the game is dependent on the servers, I do worry if I'm going to be able to fire up the game in 10 or 20 years time for some nostalgia or to admire the map, as I do with Frontier (under Amiga emulation) now.
If things go horribly wrong for the game, will I be able to fire it up in 2 years?
It would be nice for FD to compromise and create a "demo mode" that worked offline. Not in competition with The Game proper, but a static Galaxy, and limited as FD felt was appropriate, something that we "owned" without having to worry about ISP issues or what the future might bring.
And if running the game is dependent on the servers, I do worry if I'm going to be able to fire up the game in 10 or 20 years time for some nostalgia or to admire the map, as I do with Frontier (under Amiga emulation) now.
If things go horribly wrong for the game, will I be able to fire it up in 2 years?
It would be nice for FD to compromise and create a "demo mode" that worked offline. Not in competition with The Game proper, but a static Galaxy, and limited as FD felt was appropriate, something that we "owned" without having to worry about ISP issues or what the future might bring.
Oh absolutely, you dont want to be playing Eover a shared connection.
Somehow there slipped a rule in my router config that makes packets from my pc highest priority. Don't know how this could happen
In a newsletter ?
Doesn't seem shady at all to me, shady would be waiting till release then us all finding out.
Yes, in a newsletter, trying to slip it in as one-liner between marketing , hoping no one would notice.
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Harbinger
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"Time to time" was terrible wording. Your computer needs to contact the server when you make any kind of transaction be that buying/selling commodities, purchasing a new ship, upgrading your ship loadout, exploring a system, buying/selling cartography data, scooping cargo, scooping ore, accepting/turning in missions, etc. etc.
Essentially you need a pretty much constant connection.
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When's the new kick-starter for FDev to hire some people to specifically look at a cut-down version of F: D offline mode then?
Which is a shame, because the legacy of Elite was single-player, open-world greatness. But times change...
Which is a shame, because the legacy of Elite was single-player, open-world greatness. But times change...
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Really? That's your best proof? And David saying that some things got cut off (I think he speaks about DDF process though and some small things in Beta testing), and Gamma will concentrate more on polish (avoiding promising new features) - how it is marketing nonsense?
There was only way to announce it and it was trough David. Granted, text is awful...and not helping them explain why they do it at all (Michael as usual had to step in).
Clumsy? Maybe. Shady? Really?
I very much doubt it. There's very little of the game logic left within the client. The tutorials are the only "off-line" parts, which are scripted. I'm not even sure if they're fully off-line now as they contain star system data which may be held on the servers.
From what has been deduced, what you're downloading is effectively a rendering engine with a network back-end and NPC generator and server, not a game.
Could do with a lot more quelling round here!
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I agree that FD's announcement has, in hindsight, appeared a little clumsy. I think some people have gone rather overboard in their criticism of FD. As far I can see they have acted as transparently and honestly as it is possible to be. Nobody works well with someone looking over their shoulder.
I posted this on another thread
Waiter: "I'm sorry sir, i checked with the kitchen and we're put of lamb, may i recommend the steak?"
Normal reaction: "That is annoying, I was looking forward to the lamb, still the steak seems nice"
Forum reaction: "You're lying, i bet you've got loads of lamb back there, you're trying to make money out of me by selling side orders. This is a scam".
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Vet: "I'm sorry, but Mr Fluffy was very old, I'm afraid his heart gave out"
Normal reaction: "That's so sad, thank you for trying, but sometime you just can't save them"
Forum reaction: "You could bring Mr Fluffy back to life, it's easy. You just restart his heat and remove the tumour. You just want to sell me a new cat"
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Developer: "We had hoped to include an offline mode. Unfortunately in was not possible to develop the online version to a level we were happy with whilst still being able to provide an offline mode of sufficient quality. Therefore we have had to drop the offline mode in order to provide to online mode we planned."
Normal reaction: "That is terrible news, i was looking forward to that mode as i am a submariner. I would like to get a refund of my pre order as ED without offline mode is no good to me"
Forum reaction: "It's a conspiracy, clearly you want to force DRM by the back door so you can lock us in for micro transactions later. You're liars and scam artists, who deliberately advertised offline when you had no intention of ever providing it even when you easily could. I'm going to sue you as under EU law, unless you provide every single feature I thought you would, even if you set it out as a design intent, I am entitled to a full refund. I'm going call my credit card company and allege fraud to get a chargeback."
Bedst. Forum. Post. Ever.
This was during Kickstarter campaign and relayed by most reviewers
View attachment 1590
There also one with David Braben himself
View attachment 1591
Well, think of it in a different way: I used to play EVE Online, and over seven years of my tenure I gave CCP in excess of a thousand euros in subscription money. If they go bankrupt, there is no human way to keep their single shard server online, and thus everybody who ever played EVE Online will lose everything he ever did.
So far, that game is 11 years old and going on. I would be *extremely* disappointed if David Braben aspired to anything less than that for Elite. Seriously.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=56686
Note the dates.
Particularly
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=56686&p=984344&viewfull=1#post984344
on 12/11/14
Literally days before the newsletter people were still being directly told by mods in response to specific questions that they would receive a DRM free, offline playable game. This wasn't something the mods made up, they were going on the same information as everyone else outside FD.
Yes, those were promises *during* Kickstarter, when game wasn't even designed yet.
I would really like to know how much internet data the game uses. If a dev could tell us that would be great - frequent dropouts are annoying but the deal breaker for me is my data limit. My unsophisticated measuring of my own usage in beta has been around 1Mb per minute - which really is too much for me to play for a proper amount of time given I share a small quota with others. But if the devs could clarify this issue I would appreciate it - it's always possible that windows was updating in the background or something when I was trying to work it out - and my IT skills are non existent.
When's the new kick-starter for FDev to hire some people to specifically look at a cut-down version of F: D offline mode then?
Sign me up, haha.
If they say from Beginning...Hey we will make an MMO and we want that you only play it as MMO than maybe many said...Nah ... I don´t want an MMO which will be F2P in a few month/years support now/later.
And about the Immersion of playing together ... in 400 Million System (maybe there they also lie.....) we will be lonely...but Yesterday far far away I feel all of your present often....lags,lags,lags, and then I ask:For what I be online, if I didn´t see anyone, but my Game experience get worst because of Lags?? Don´t say it is Beta... they continued with P2P, and I must allways get all new from the Galaxy it will grows if more Player interaction occures...
With all time Online it will be easy to include Mircotransaction ...we have it now called Ship Decalls.
And I am sure there will come more....
Later they can offer GBP/$/€ in change of credit.. you ask why (I can not play 24/7 ours .... and to compsensate that, I buy my success...commom things in Gaming Industry.... but that not what I want)
And again...did you really think that the Lag will less when all after the 16.12 play ????????
But I know...if I now praise DB and FD, and say that all will be marvelouse after next week/16.12 all will agree and I will be a good part of the Community.
If not than many wrote: Take your refund and go ... but it is not honestly, to all which also Support this game.
And about the Immersion of playing together ... in 400 Million System (maybe there they also lie.....) we will be lonely...but Yesterday far far away I feel all of your present often....lags,lags,lags, and then I ask:For what I be online, if I didn´t see anyone, but my Game experience get worst because of Lags?? Don´t say it is Beta... they continued with P2P, and I must allways get all new from the Galaxy it will grows if more Player interaction occures...
With all time Online it will be easy to include Mircotransaction ...we have it now called Ship Decalls.
And I am sure there will come more....
Later they can offer GBP/$/€ in change of credit.. you ask why (I can not play 24/7 ours .... and to compsensate that, I buy my success...commom things in Gaming Industry.... but that not what I want)
And again...did you really think that the Lag will less when all after the 16.12 play ????????
But I know...if I now praise DB and FD, and say that all will be marvelouse after next week/16.12 all will agree and I will be a good part of the Community.
If not than many wrote: Take your refund and go ... but it is not honestly, to all which also Support this game.
"Shady" is certainly a harsh and probably unfair description, but your suggestion that FD simply "couldn't get it to work" is right at the other extreme of the scale. I'm sure they didn't set out to deceive anyone, but the way this game is built, it's been designed from the ground up in such a way that off-line play is virtually impossible. FD must have been aware of this for a long time, or else at each step of the way they'd have been asking with every design decision "will this work off-line, or how do we work around it?". They didn't, because they weren't taking the off-line option seriously. Also, the communication in the newsletter was.... .questionable in the way it was handled.
So sure, removing off-line play isn't an act of Faustian deceit, but let's not pretend that poor old FD have been burning the midnight oil to try and avoid dropping it, crying into their coffee in the morning, overwhelmed and frustrated by their inability to tackle this surprise problem that reared its head at the last moment.
Now how you view the situation at this juncture depends entirely on how misled you feel. If you bought in at beta level and never thought about off-line play, then I doubt you've got any reason to be bothered. If you gave the project a couple of grand on the basis that there'd be an off-line game to play if FD folded, then I guess you'd be less than amused. And this is the thing - people talk about taking a gamble on Kickstarter projects, and that's entirely fair. If FD went under tomorrow, I would personally take it on the chin, because that's the risk I took. However, a lot of use felt that the project we were gambling on was creating a product that we'd be able to use if FD ever went under in the future. So the feeling is not that the gamble failed, but that nature of the bet was changed without consultation.
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