Which is the real problem, developing a seperate galaxy definition based on a random seed gen with PG coding is not an intrinsically hard problem. He's already gone on record and said the decision is mostly a design and creative one, and about THE VISIONᵀᴹ, it's almost certain you could weave together a fairly old school elite experience where you create your own story and have a reactive Procedural Generated galaxy with the graphics and assets provided and using a random galaxy seed, so the secrets of the online galaxy would be quite safe, but that would not fit the creative plans.
No Single Player offline Mode then?
- Thread starter Brandon31
- Start date
- Status
Which is the real problem, developing a seperate galaxy definition based on a random seed gen with PG coding is not an intrinsically hard problem. He's already gone on record and said the decision is mostly a design and creative one, and about THE VISIONᵀᴹ, it's almost certain you could weave together a fairly old school elite experience where you create your own story and have a reactive Procedural Generated galaxy with the graphics and assets provided and using a random galaxy seed, so the secrets of the online galaxy would be quite safe, but that would not fit the creative plans.
Come on Tiger, You can't fault Frontier for the refund-policy. I've said earlier in this thread that I even hesitated over the terms after having been satisfied that the offline was still a given, doubting between the Beta or the pre-order. Hindsight is 20/20; I should've gone with the pre-order.
In the former, I have no leg to stand on, in the latter I could just have cancelled my pre-order and Frontier would've refunded without question.
It's really very simple. Beta is Beta, and they fully delivered on giving us access to all the beta-stages. There's just no ground for a refund towards Betabackers. How it will turn out for rubes, I don't know. But I fear that the rubes have as little chance on a refund as the Beta-backers have.
One question: Can you guarantee that the company will not fold as long as I live and play games?
It will be interesting to witness the change of attitude with some, if and when some expected feature near and dear to these previously unaffected masses, hits the cutting room floor.
I'd be fully behind them axing the forums (bar the Private Backers Gentle-person's club obviously, chin chin!).
Why not encrypt the data? Ahhh now I understand. The offline version gets hacked which compromises the money making sausage machine called the online version.
In the letter of the law? No. No I cannot. In the way they've acted morally? I absolutely can. They've gone from being a company I respected and headed by a man who created a game I have very fond memories of to a company that's somewhere between Electronic Arts circa the release of the new Simcity and Ubisoft as they are now with their approach of "We'll release stuff and let PC users debug it!". My warm fuzzy feelings towards Braben die very quickly when FDEV decide that the T's and C's are a way of sledging your fanbase when you make a controversial announcement and people to some extent rightly seek redress.
Decided to not put this in the Refund experiences (relating to offline issue), as there is tonnes of off topic already, but i was thinking about the general inability to get refunds currently.
One suggestion for FD if any of the devs are watching the thread, IF you are not giving refunds what about helping those effected sell on their product to other people? For example can we transfer our accounts to other people? I really have no idea how all that works in relation to digital products, if that is a can of worms or not. I can certainly live with losing £80 (not happy about it, and my trust would be affected), but it would be 'nice' to get something back out of all this, and if someone can get my game that i will not be using cheap (say £50?), that would be a positive all around.
If FD helped with this that might it go smoother? Anyway i'll just put that out there
One suggestion for FD if any of the devs are watching the thread, IF you are not giving refunds what about helping those effected sell on their product to other people? For example can we transfer our accounts to other people? I really have no idea how all that works in relation to digital products, if that is a can of worms or not. I can certainly live with losing £80 (not happy about it, and my trust would be affected), but it would be 'nice' to get something back out of all this, and if someone can get my game that i will not be using cheap (say £50?), that would be a positive all around.
If FD helped with this that might it go smoother? Anyway i'll just put that out there
Can you please point me to the actual link where David said that?
gravityztr
Banned
@Jim_Chapman: agree.
well its kinda a dead horse here. guess ill go play some beta , and we'll hear about more after-release.
bye bye
well its kinda a dead horse here. guess ill go play some beta , and we'll hear about more after-release.
bye bye
One is large and doesnt give a crap about the problem of the other?
Yeah for some everything is fine as long as fine is the majority that they follow, would be really interesting how they would respond if in a future vision decision of Frontier they would support Mantle or DX12 only graphics cards as they were limited by the previous technologies.
Not being involved in the development of the game here, but i can't see why this would be an issue with PG. You have the server with one seed, the offline game with another. That's it, just one iddy biddy number gets changed, and the whole galaxy changes. Unless he is referring to fixed areas of space where they are inserting specific locations, but i presume those are mainly core areas and will be discovered within days, if not hours. Hell, they could release offline versions which start with a different seed for everyone, therefore everyone gets a unique experience.
Because the putative hacker will have local access to:
1) the code doing the decrypting
2) the decryption key
3) the ciphertext (i.e. the galaxy definition)
It would take a couple of hours to crack, tops.
Last edited:
As someone who was not a kickstarter backer, I came in at premium beta, the people asking for a refund seem, at least in my opinion, being a little unreasonable. Looking at the development so far, this is a great game, and a worthy successor the the Elite lineage.
A quick search of the Kickstarter main page, the principal advertising document for the KS, the word "offline" does not appear. Now I haven't watched all the videos, nor visited all the links on that page, but if your pledge choice does not indicate the presence of an offline mode, then frankly, you can't really say that one should be provided to you. Also as backer to other projects on KS, projects that have not been delivered upon after waiting for 26 months, with no advanced access mind you, I have never been offered a refund for a KS project.
I am sure, that Mr Braben loves this game, and also that Mr Braben and the Frontier team, and company, would like to reap the financial benefits of constructing this game. Some form of online connection ensures that 1/ People who are playing are also paying, and 2/ A dynamic universe based on PC, and NPC events and interactions can develop the game beyond what is possible with a one time static download. Both these things benefit the player base.
I speculate, that if Mr Braben and Frontier could no longer sustain an online presence, that they would want to find a way to preserve, if only for themselves, the game in playable state. To this end I would speculate further, that in this circumstance, Mr Braben and the Frontier team, would make available either a standalone version of the game, or a server mountable version that users could host themselves.
Now if you do not want to rely on my speculation of Mr B, and FD, and you love this game and genuinely want an offline mode, then go buy some shares in FD, and at the next AGM, put your hand up and ask why you cannot have it. As a shareholder, you will get some serious attention.
Turning around, after having played the game up to now, and saying it sucks because you cannot have offline play, and you want your money back, well to be frank, it seems like a kid throwing a tantrum. (yeah I know this is inflamatory, but that is the way alot of you read to me)
Play the game, or don't play the game. If you are leaving over this, thanks for testing this game up to this point, hope you can see your way past your difficulty with offline mode, and join us again soon. Your account will be waiting for you.
A quick search of the Kickstarter main page, the principal advertising document for the KS, the word "offline" does not appear. Now I haven't watched all the videos, nor visited all the links on that page, but if your pledge choice does not indicate the presence of an offline mode, then frankly, you can't really say that one should be provided to you. Also as backer to other projects on KS, projects that have not been delivered upon after waiting for 26 months, with no advanced access mind you, I have never been offered a refund for a KS project.
I am sure, that Mr Braben loves this game, and also that Mr Braben and the Frontier team, and company, would like to reap the financial benefits of constructing this game. Some form of online connection ensures that 1/ People who are playing are also paying, and 2/ A dynamic universe based on PC, and NPC events and interactions can develop the game beyond what is possible with a one time static download. Both these things benefit the player base.
I speculate, that if Mr Braben and Frontier could no longer sustain an online presence, that they would want to find a way to preserve, if only for themselves, the game in playable state. To this end I would speculate further, that in this circumstance, Mr Braben and the Frontier team, would make available either a standalone version of the game, or a server mountable version that users could host themselves.
Now if you do not want to rely on my speculation of Mr B, and FD, and you love this game and genuinely want an offline mode, then go buy some shares in FD, and at the next AGM, put your hand up and ask why you cannot have it. As a shareholder, you will get some serious attention.
Turning around, after having played the game up to now, and saying it sucks because you cannot have offline play, and you want your money back, well to be frank, it seems like a kid throwing a tantrum. (yeah I know this is inflamatory, but that is the way alot of you read to me)
Play the game, or don't play the game. If you are leaving over this, thanks for testing this game up to this point, hope you can see your way past your difficulty with offline mode, and join us again soon. Your account will be waiting for you.
Last edited:
The main issue is the way that realisation was (not) communicated. Not even a hint that even doubts of delivering were beginning to form.
You aren't seriously suggesting that before some time last week it was "offline - sure, we'll slap it on in no time" in the dev team and then "oops, it ain't gonna happen, slip a note in the Newsletter, nobody's going to care anyway", are you?
You still can play by yourself - hence Solo Mode
So it is a choice not to offer DRM free servers. That means refunds.
That is actually a very good idea. Good thinking.
Legally you're 100% correct, and FD are probably acting to the letter of the law.
However, there's a side issue here (no less important) of backer trust, and company perception. They could certainly do better by their backers & customers than strictly follow the letter of the law. It's their bed though.
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
Explain how Solo Mode is playing by yourself, unaffected by other player actions.
I look forward to your insightful answer.
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
More significantly (and probably the real reason), they'd know the network packets to be sent to activate any / all cosmetics that they plan on selling to us via microtransactions.
Any notion that it's to prevent cheating is simply a smokescreen, because they know that many people would agree with it, whether it be true or not.
- Status