No Single Player offline Mode then?

[RedWizzard]

I backed this game because I expected it to be a modern update to the old one with at least the same features. Looks like I was wrong. The current version is nothing like the old ones, even now the features are lacking depth, it's just a shallow tech demo and last newsletter even mentions features cut off. I couldn't care less about the amount of stars, if the core gameplay is as shallow and repetitive as it is now. It's basically just fly here, fly there, buy random equipment and grind for credits to get bigger more expensive ship and equipment. Or make some basic, shallow, pointless, repetitive mission.

Cutting the offline option out, means that when the last server is offline for good, so is ED. I will wait until the 22 November to decide if I spend another hour with this game.

Huh? You loved the old games but you think this one is shallow and repetitive? That doesn't make any sense... the old games were just as shallow and repetitive.

Your last comment doesn't make sense either: if you enjoy playing then there is no reason not to continue playing now. If you don't enjoy playing then what difference does losing offline mode make?

 

[mbpoblet]

mmm - there is a marked difference between the objects and the content. Seed information takes space... (scuse the pun)

I don't know what you mean by "objects" and "content", but the seed is basically a relatively small number to make sure that the pseudorandom generator gives the same results for everyone.

The only things that occupy any disc space in procedural generation are code and lookup tables.

The algorithms can put temporary generated data on the computer's memory (RAM), but since high detail is only generated locally (they're not generating the whole galaxy at full detail, only whatever parts you can see at whatever detail you need them) it won't take up a lot of space.

That's the whole point of procedural generation.

 

[sngerous]

Indeed, this highlights the issue here:

Hypothetically speaking I would need to invest in an expensive option to work around Frontier's change of tack. Yes it can be done but your statement underlines why - in the EU at least - constraints of a product need to be made known at the point of contract, otherwise the contract is null because it was made on false grounds. Using your solution I would be pushed from a zero cost Internet option (it doesn't need to exist) to a high cost one by the supplier whim.

And now I am sure you see why some people may be disgruntled because in your own scenario a costly - and not always on - connection method is suddenly required, where one was not needed, so you have now answered your own question.

I couldn't care less as I say, but I am capable of understanding people who do care.

You eat cookies that you are promised to be healthy but just make you fat so that you can eat even more. The cookies don't taste bad because of that, though.

 

[Solei]

Oh I do. I just don't see what they are whinging about.

Some people just take the online connection for granted - and can't see the problems unless they get their dsl subscription canceled permanently. Then it would be quite a sobering experience.

But untill that happens, ignorance is a bliss i guess.

The Internet is more and more becoming a curse rather than a blessing these days.

 

[Dodgey]

My work involves travelling to countries with an internet connection comparable to dial-up at best. Very disappointed to hear there is no offline mode. It will take me 2 days just to download the game!

 

[PIXEL]

My understanding of this offline/online (confusion) is that some folk want to be able to play this game from one install like the original Elite and not have to be ‘online’ to play.
Fair enough that if you want patches and upgrades you can log on in some coffee shop for a day and download patches etc but the concern that some are reading from the newsletter is that offline play wont be possible when it was originally promised.
Clarification about what is 'actually meant' in FD's newsletter is required before people start asking for refunds....

 

[Tim Wheatley]

Welp, we all knew this was coming, so obligatory comedy moment as provided by me before I hit the bed.

It is pretty huge... lol Anyway, I am off to bed. It's late and frankly I don't think FD will change position. While *I* have an acceptable internet connection, I know of many and have advised many to buy ED who do not based on the availability of an offline version that would work for them, including family. I quoted my various posts into one post earlier today, you can read them here.

I fully understand FDs reasoning, I don't honestly expect them to reverse their decision. But I am upset it happened, that I feel I misled people by passing on the information Frontier kept giving me, and obviously upset I won't be able to share the ED experience with the people I wanted to (offline, yes, just like we did with Elite II).

I also firmly believe that a statement, an apology of sorts, would have gone a long way to helping people deal with this in a more mature manner. If I can quote myself from earlier, this is how the newsletter felt to me:

I think an apology, a statement on this, would have gone a loooooong way. It feels like they said: "YAY, free ships! Isn't pizza great? This! This! This! Oh, and your cat died."

This is a core feature - gone - with 1 month left before release, announced as an afterthought in a single line of a newsletter.

 

[khaitom]

So a kickstarter might not live up to every expectation.

Burn the whole damn world! Burn it now!

 

[AstroCreep]

My biggest worry is that now this game, similar to diabolo 3 and SimCity etc. Will not be playable until a week or 2 after launch due to FD's servers overloading. Like every always-online game ever has done.

Still, will have to see how it ends up when the game launches, but I'd hate to have to tell them, told you so.

then just wait two weeks, the game will still be here

 

[mbpoblet]

Its a procedural creation so the data at start at minimal, that what procedural is for. Then it can expand in a database, now we talk in terrabites instead of gigas, maybe it is a problem now but i dont think it will be a problem in the future.

The whole point of procedural generation is to avoid that kind of thing. You don't generate the whole galaxy, dump it somewhere, and use it as a lookup table, you generate what you need in real time, on demand, and discard it when you don't need it any more.

 

[ronin516]

I'm sure somewhere in this thread it is mentioned MAYBE.

BUT... I'm going to say it anyway. I think a lot of people jumped to conclusions about the whole thing. Fd's version of "SOLO" mode was not an "OFFLINE" mode. It was intended to be a solo mode so players who were too afraid, scarred, don't want to deal with human players and the occasional inescapable blockade. To play without them encumbrances and alone basically. In reality the game has to update online. Otherwise the market and other algorithms will not work properly as they are tied to all the organics of the game. They would have to completely rewrite that whole portion. I personally would love a full offline solo version. Mostly because I am on a sailboat and when I decide to go out I do not have cable. And think about it. Really how often are most people in an area that they cannot have at least a wifi connection.

 

[Kicks]

My work involves travelling to countries with an internet connection comparable to dial-up at best. Very disappointed to hear there is no offline mode. It will take me 2 days just to download the game!

Download the game before you go travelling?

 

[ecgallagher]

Polling requires a cross section of people to provide useful information.

Instead? You have a poll on the internet, asking people with no internet, about their internet connection. As stated, those most affected perhaps won't see the poll any time soon enough to do what you are saying, and if they do see it delayed, the greater numbers of those with an internet connection, saying they have an internet connection, will skew the results enough to make those without an internet connection, saying they have no internet connection, look like a smaller percentage than they actually are. This is pretty basic logic.

But using your logic those without an internet connection can't even order the game. So no problem. You have also said in other posts you can access these forums by other methods like a smart phone.
So, maybe they do use other methods to access these forums but do not have an internet connection capable of running the game.

So instead we should rely on a few very vocal individuals who post over and over on this topic to try and get a clear picture on how many people are affected. That is not skewed at all.

 

[Steve O B Have]

I don't know what you mean by "objects" and "content", but the seed is basically a relatively small number to make sure that the pseudorandom generator gives the same results for everyone.

The only things that occupy any disc space in procedural generation are code and lookup tables.

The algorithms can put temporary generated data on the computer's memory (RAM), but since high detail is only generated locally (they're not generating the whole galaxy at full detail, only whatever parts you can see at whatever detail you need them) it won't take up a lot of space.

That's the whole point of procedural generation.

I'm oversimplifying but in terms of generation the procedurally generated objects don't take up that much space - they exist as identifier numbers/code. What is then populated into the game - buildings, flora, fauna etc all require models and textures, behavior and interaction code, animations etc etc. The procedurally generated 'objects' don't take up much space - the seed data to make those objects 'real' within the game world takes a great deal of space.

Anyway - I'm muddying the issue - from what I understand the 'size' is not the issue.

(to be clear I'm commenting as a gamer not as a mod - we're not privy to this info any more than you guys are).

 

[TheSporkLord]

then just wait two weeks, the game will still be here

I know that but my point was more that those games aren't exactly held in high regard because of that. I'm more worried about the backlash when the game comes out.

 

[mbpoblet]

My understanding of this offline/online (confusion) is that some folk want to be able to play this game from one install like the original Elite and not have to be ‘online’ to play.
Fair enough that if you want patches and upgrades you can log on in some coffee shop for a day and download patches etc but the concern that some are reading from the newsletter is that offline play wont be possible when it was originally promised.
Clarification about what is 'actually meant' in FD's newsletter is required before people start asking for refunds....

It's already been "clarified", sadly:

Indeed and the biggest promise is the game with the vision we set out with. We haven't taken this decision lightly, but having to hamper the game to work offline would have meant that we couldn't deliver the game we're making.

Michael

The online servers provide all of the data and processing for the galaxy, interactions between players and all transactions of value. Without it there isn't a game. We always intended that the way to play the game would be online. We had hoped that we could do an offline variant, but as the game progressed the online requirement superseded that. It wasn't an easy choice to make, but to stay true to the game we set out to make we had to make this choice.

Michael

 

[SentineI]

I have created a poll about Offline Mode, to find out how many people really want/need it, and what features they need from it:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=59074&p=1001694

If would be great if the OP would link to it in the first post.

 

[AstroCreep]

I know that but my point was more that those games aren't exactly held in high regard because of that. I'm more worried about the backlash when the game comes out.

yeah the Backlash will happen no matter what, MMO servers go down all the time for maintenance and yet people still moan about that! Personally I've seen enough Big Game releases to know that the first few days are rough going and it's best to just sit and wait it out, but that seems too hard to take for some people...like their lives depend on getting into the game the very millisecond it's released!

 

[Tim Wheatley]

But using your logic those without an internet connection can't even order the game. So no problem. You have also said in other posts you can access these forums by other methods like a smart phone.
So, maybe they do use other methods to access these forums but do not have an internet connection capable of running the game.

So instead we should rely on a few very vocal individuals who post over and over on this topic to try and get a clear picture on how many people are affected. That is not skewed at all.

Are they polling them? No. THEY ARE TAKING THEIR MONEY. You have absolutely no logic in your post at all. I know of quite a few who pre-ordered and said they were excited for release as comments on my YouTube channel, with no viable connection at all, who would download at their schools, libraries, etc. People who asked me about a fully offline version and were given the information Frontier were still giving us a matter of weeks ago.

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I'm sure somewhere in this thread it is mentioned MAYBE.

BUT... I'm going to say it anyway. I think a lot of people jumped to conclusions about the whole thing. Fd's version of "SOLO" mode was not an "OFFLINE" mode. It was intended to be a solo mode so players who were too afraid, scarred, don't want to deal with human players and the occasional inescapable blockade. To play without them encumbrances and alone basically. In reality the game has to update online. Otherwise the market and other algorithms will not work properly as they are tied to all the organics of the game. They would have to completely rewrite that whole portion. I personally would love a full offline solo version. Mostly because I am on a sailboat and when I decide to go out I do not have cable. And think about it. Really how often are most people in an area that they cannot have at least a wifi connection.

You are mistaken. Frontier said a fully offline version would be available.

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Download the game before you go travelling?

Then do what? YOU CANNOT PLAY IT.

 

[Kicks]

yeah the Backlash will happen no matter what, MMO servers go down all the time for maintenance and yet people still moan about that! Personally I've seen enough Big Game releases to know that the first few days are rough going and it's best to just sit and wait it out, but that seems too hard to take for some people...like their lives depend on getting into the game the very millisecond it's released!

Too true. World of Warcraft has had maintenance Tuesday at the same time for years... and still, every Tuesday, it's conflicting with some special snowflakes' personal schedule.