No Single Player offline Mode then?

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The problem is that you wouldn't have got that. During the kickstarter we thought we would be able to operate a dual mode with the offline version cut down. As we've progressed more of the game has had to exist online, so much so that an offline version would be mostly a new and different game - which is something we can't support.


Michael, if you read this in the Vesuvius like volume of posts in this thread, please will you commit to making a sticky in Elite Updates apologising for, and explaining why, there is now no offline mode. And stating refunds will be offered (you can add case by case if it keeps marketing\legal\DB happy) to those affected if requested by the normal process?

I actually believe what you say about how development teased this out, but we've got Mods only 3 days ago promising offline mode etc, even you and DB at one point, so this looks really bad. As a backer I don't want a refund even though I think this decision sucks, but I think it's morally (and legally in lots of places) right that STORE buyers get this option.

The reason I want you to sticky it in Updates is because I know you said it earlier in this thread but you know, 2 minutes and it's buried.

Will you commit to that?
 
Uhmmm. That is the way it works now. The server checks in during instance shifts, purchases, and a few other things, but otherwise, in solo mode, it's not a constant back and forth a la WoW/Eve.
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Indeed. I'm pretty sure SOLO online is literally an overriding matchmaker rule that says you won't be matched, ever.
 
We have always said the way to play the game is online - indeed it says so in the quote of me being circulated. The choice was develop the game in the way we wanted, or not. Trying to make it offline would have made both experiences worse than we were willing to tolerate. We had to make the decision and have done so. I would say that an offline rewrite of the game is unlikely for the future.

Michael

But can we have a full refund please.
 
Spending time on an offline mode is wasted if it doesn't provide the game that we've set out to make - which is the case here. For us the game needs the richness that the online galaxy gives us. Without it there is no game.

Michael

Time isn't an issue - launch is Dec 16th. It's about scope, and what gets scheduled into the later updates.

So, spending MONEY on offline - what's that got to do with "the game needs the richness..." - if the backers are happy to settle for a compromise?
Offline doesn't have to mean static - it can be dynamic, just algorithmically.

Plus, there could be a solution for implementing offline WITHOUT adverse impact on the online game - and a significant PR / goodwill boost.
 
Spending time on an offline mode is wasted if it doesn't provide the game that we've set out to make - which is the case here. For us the game needs the richness that the online galaxy gives us. Without it there is no game.
But you told us you were making a different game.
All I'm asking is that make and give us the game you told us you would. Not a different game.

I didn't help finance (and later buy) some game but only the game you promised us.
 
The problem is that you wouldn't have got that. During the kickstarter we thought we would be able to operate a dual mode with the offline version cut down. As we've progressed more of the game has had to exist online, so much so that an offline version would be mostly a new and different game - which is something we can't support.

Michael

Then you got your priorities during development wrong. This is just more excuses. You said so yourself, that this is not a technical decision (which is obvious even without you admitting that). It's something you DECIDED not to do. A game without an evolving universe would be different, but it wouldn't be a completely different game.

Several people commented on how you could achieve that. Build a cut down version of the server, incorporate that into the game, whatever. You don't want to do this. Maybe because of DRM, maybe not to share the secrets of the universe, maybe because of the lack of resources right now. But none of those things (apart from DRM) is stopping you from dong that later on. You DECIDED not to. Not because you can't. But because you don't want to.
 
This has been said. Go to the store page. Subject to the terms and conditions of the store. Please, please, please, please, do a bit of reading before spreading the cancer.

cancer?? dont you think thats a bit harsh for people who just want their money back because they ordered something different than what will be delivered?
 
cancer?? dont you think thats a bit harsh for people who just want their money back because they ordered something different than what will be delivered?

I'm pretty sure people who say they could "murder a burger" when they are hungry, wouldn't actually go through with their threat to eliminate an already dead chunk of meet. Comparisons will always be comparisons.

Man just typing this, I could eat a horse!
 
We have always said the way to play the game is online - indeed it says so in the quote of me being circulated. The choice was develop the game in the way we wanted, or not. Trying to make it offline would have made both experiences worse than we were willing to tolerate. We had to make the decision and have done so. I would say that an offline rewrite of the game is unlikely for the future.

Michael

Then i would want a refund of my £85.
(saying i cannot because i bought the beta is no excuse)

As i bought it for offline only,and as it been mentioned many times even by David Braben,i took his word that there would be offline play.
 
forgive my bad English but I am not mother tongue, the use of some terms may be inappropriate to, but please try to interpret my words in well.

The market offers only yellow car, 99% of shoppers loves the yellow and then the big producers to maximize sales produce only yellow car.
One day a person speaks on kickstarter to 1% of buyers who want the cars in green and pink. From this 1% of consumers on the kickstarter person raises millions to produce 18 green cars and 2 pink cars too.
During production of the car you realize that it is possible to produce 18 green cars, but it is too expensive to produce only 2 exemplars of pink car. Then years after harvest and used the money of the people who wanted the pink car ... you communicate to them that they can not have the car pink, but green.


Now I have nothing against you or your company ... but do not give to the people what they paid for ... it's bad behavior morally and legally.

So at this point it may be legitimate for the people who wanted the pink car asking for their money back.

Its not too expensive ,it is just not possible ...
 
I'm still failing to see the immorality of a simple design change, and then repeated mentions that if you aren't happy with the product, there's the door and the return policy... This isn't the bloody Holocaust, it's just 2014 gaming.

See, now, this is where I take umbrage in these discussions.

I am not personally affected by the online/offline point. I'm always online. But I understand those who are (I've been in that position before). And, it was promised as part of the KS FAQ, as part of videos, and forum posts from the staff. I've also read Michael's reasons for the change, and I do understand them (since I work in the industry).

However, this was not "a simple decision". This was not "decided just recently". There is simply no way a competent developer could not see this being infeasible months out. None. You make structural design changes, you obfuscate things necessary to running the client, and you make design decisions which are specifically counter to the offline mode. This wasn't "patched in at beta 3". This was part of key design decisions.

Now, if Fdev were incompetent developers, I'd understand. Someone "whoops" committed branch to master and now they are stuck with it. Rolling the change back would require another 4-6 days of backbreaking work for a team of 20 guys to fix the entire system. Ouch. Then a few weeks to figure out how to communicate this to the clients.

Problem I see is, they aren't incompetent developers. Maybe someone didn't get the memo, or whatever - I'm not saying they had secret agendas and whatnot. But Michael's posts were pretty clear and seemed like he was fully aware of the design, and this would have been a known issue as of Beta 1, perhaps Beta 2.

Even though this has zero effect on my enjoyment of the game, and I have zero stake in this, I feel for the people who read the KS page or even the FAQ here (which I did before purchasing Beta access) and it was very clear that there was offline functionality (albeit limited). I can't imagine the ire of the guys who were told that during the KS and pledged a few hundred dollars to see the game succeed, or even thousands. This wasn't vague, this wasn't "we hope to", it was stated as fact in the several places I read it.

Additionally, if the "offline people" are "the minority", then some of the people defending the decision here are hypocrites. Back on page 83 of this thread, one of the white knights was stating in one post that this affected very few people, and then three posts later stated he was afraid they would all refund and hurt the game release. That's just straight double-talk - "not enough affected to make a difference" and "doesn't want the refunds to impact the game".

I'm not screaming that I never will support them again, or ragequitting, or refunding. I love the game, and will play it for quite a while, I'm sure. I don't, however, support bad development practices. And this is certainly a doozy.

This was a bad, bad move. You don't pull this at zero hour with your clients and announce it hidden in a newsletter. And the people defending this are simply white knighting that which isn't excusable. This wasn't something designed and whoops, zero hour, we can't add bobbleheads and Christmas lights in the cockpit, sorry. This was a base design decision, and as a developer, I empathize with the why, but it should have been communicated much, much earlier.

At this point, they need to deliver what they promised - even if after launch. And if they "can't", figure it out. Don't just say "we're not going to". That's what starts this type of furor, and it really needs to stop as a practice in game development. The design decisions, not the players affected, are what is wrong here. If offline was pushed as a feature back to Mac release, or July, you'd see some grumbles. But straight out cancelling a promised feature...

EDIT: I've read a few more of Michael's posts that I missed in the 15 or so pages that happened since I read this thread, and I see more about how they were dealing with the feature. Got it. And I've been in that position with clients, personally. So, I'm a little less "bad development practices" and a bit more "this should have been discussed with the customers earlier, when it became a problem". He makes replies I have had to do in development as well, and he's trying to be forthright, and I respect that. The path on this makes more sense. It should, however, have been brought up as a discussion point much, much earlier.

And doing it this close to launch, though... that's certainly worthy of most of the negative posts.
 
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I'm thinking some of the explanations Micheal is offering here seem fairly reasonable when it comes to how the game has developed.
 
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No offline? Bad move FD.

I will play online, but i like to back to old games and in future, after 10-15 years i would like to play ED, like i playing Frontier or First Encounters now.

online is not needed for economy, look at x3 series....
 
We have always said the way to play the game is online - indeed it says so in the quote of me being circulated. The choice was develop the game in the way we wanted, or not. Trying to make it offline would have made both experiences worse than we were willing to tolerate. We had to make the decision and have done so. I would say that an offline rewrite of the game is unlikely for the future.

Michael

Well, I've said enough on this forums over the last two years.

This is 100% not the game I backed, supported, promoted, encouraged others to buy, and defended to the hilt. The way this has been handled stinks to the very core, and there has still not been one single word of apology for misleading your backers all this time.

As of now, I'm done.

Enjoy your game.

:(
 
I would say that by looking at the refund policy, your entitled to a refund up to the day before the product is release the trouble is people paid for alpha/beta access have had it the end game and all expansions are free, so technically i doubt i will receive a refund, i will try but i can't see it happening, if that fails i will request a refund via my CC company, at the end of the day i paid £200 to back a game with offline access, that is no longer the case essentially I have been ripped off, the whole episode is a complete farce and I will never back anything with a KS campaign ever again. FD will certainly never see another penny from me for anything and I will no long recommend any of the products to anyone as I feel they can not be trusted to deliver on the product they requested backing for.
 
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