Oh these vain, arrogant people, ignoring the galaxy full of space ships and getting hung up on their ability to use the product at all. We can only hope they overcome their failure to appreciate the majestic vision FD have for FD, where some neckbeard buying gold in some other, invisible island changes the commodity price for your instance by 1 space buck. Can't they see that merely being unable to play the game is but a small price to pay for this incredible, never before seen functionality?
No Single Player offline Mode then?
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Oh these vain, arrogant people, ignoring the galaxy full of space ships and getting hung up on their ability to use the product at all. We can only hope they overcome their failure to appreciate the majestic vision FD have for FD, where some neckbeard buying gold in some other, invisible island changes the commodity price for your instance by 1 space buck. Can't they see that merely being unable to play the game is but a small price to pay for this incredible, never before seen functionality?
"Young Sloths are so inept, that they sometimes mistake their legs for tree-branches, and promptly fall out of the tree".
RIP Douglas Adams.
Yeah, well Blizz launches traditionally go wrong. 5000 horde trying to talk to the same questgiver... It's asking for trouble. I used to wait for a week or two. Expansion-launches are the perfect time to take a break.
First time posting but have been following for years the forums, even during the wishful thinking times when only Geraldine and a couple of others visited the Elite forum.
I'm one of the older players on the forums I would guess at 51. Thought seriously about jumping in during the KS mode but didn't, held off till PB, and in retrospect glad I did.
If I was one of the guys that had put two three four hundred plus into frontiers mitts and then be told no offline, I would be irked (to put it mildly). To the people who say it's online game etc it's no big deal. maybe not to you it's the principal in which this whole offline thing has been handled.
Personally I think it stinks.
Was the lack of offline ever mentioned in the backers forum?
Ill play l the game, I love elite, but the way it's been handled has left a real nasty taste in my mouth, so someone who chucked a grand etc at it the taste must be bloody rancid.
braben should be on here, or is it too much now with medal around his neck.
Poorly handled Frontier
I'm one of the older players on the forums I would guess at 51. Thought seriously about jumping in during the KS mode but didn't, held off till PB, and in retrospect glad I did.
If I was one of the guys that had put two three four hundred plus into frontiers mitts and then be told no offline, I would be irked (to put it mildly). To the people who say it's online game etc it's no big deal. maybe not to you it's the principal in which this whole offline thing has been handled.
Personally I think it stinks.
Was the lack of offline ever mentioned in the backers forum?
Ill play l the game, I love elite, but the way it's been handled has left a real nasty taste in my mouth, so someone who chucked a grand etc at it the taste must be bloody rancid.
braben should be on here, or is it too much now with medal around his neck.
Poorly handled Frontier
I was monitoring the traffic up and down to the EliteDangerous32.exe process for a few hours today. I'm seriously hoping my network tool was broken because I saw a peak of 2.1Mb/s down and 400Kb/s up. It was a private group so for sure I was the hub machine but there are other games out there that will need about 50Kb/s up for each group member than connects. 10 people in the group = 500Kb/s. Which is pretty much unacceptable for many DSL broadband services.
The Download was worrying too unless I, as the hub was bringing down content to then push out to the group.
The main thing FD need to do here is make their game select the best host in a very accurate and reliable way so the guy with the meaty Internet link does all the heavy lifting. Of course that doesn't guarantee that person has a PC capable of hosting a 10 person private group so this whole thing is very complicated.
If a game needs so much bandwidth to operate then there has to be some additional direct client to server traffic (i.e. the group members shouldn't get all their updates from the group host but from some other place).
This whole question of offline vs online is not really the one that needs answered, most well designed network games can operate on a modem line, it's all about whether Elite will be lean enough to do that and so far I can't see it.
Offiline mode would also need a shed load more drive space to provide a self contained game, which would have to be downloaded anyway so it could never be an offline game. The game folder is only 2.73GB from a clean install so all that data transfer must be to build the actual systems as you jump into them and the knowledge of the whole live galaxy isn't stored on your computer.
The Download was worrying too unless I, as the hub was bringing down content to then push out to the group.
The main thing FD need to do here is make their game select the best host in a very accurate and reliable way so the guy with the meaty Internet link does all the heavy lifting. Of course that doesn't guarantee that person has a PC capable of hosting a 10 person private group so this whole thing is very complicated.
If a game needs so much bandwidth to operate then there has to be some additional direct client to server traffic (i.e. the group members shouldn't get all their updates from the group host but from some other place).
This whole question of offline vs online is not really the one that needs answered, most well designed network games can operate on a modem line, it's all about whether Elite will be lean enough to do that and so far I can't see it.
Offiline mode would also need a shed load more drive space to provide a self contained game, which would have to be downloaded anyway so it could never be an offline game. The game folder is only 2.73GB from a clean install so all that data transfer must be to build the actual systems as you jump into them and the knowledge of the whole live galaxy isn't stored on your computer.
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Ok, this makes more sense to me now, i was beginning to wonder what on earth Cricket had to do with any of this !
It was never an implication. It was a straight out feature that was even confirmed in the FAQ and many times later.
Not sure about that yet. It could be that they are only offering refunds for those that purchased it in the shop (not Kickstarter) AND have never participated in the tests.
That excludes a whole lot of people.
But they did exactly that.
The information was buried in a wall of text of marketing speech combined with additional promises. It was buried so deeply that many people didn't even realize it was in there. And they did it pretty much in the last minute before release.
How should they have handled it?
Once the possibility, that offline may have to be removed, was first discussed in earnest within the company, they should have mentioned it in the forums. And they should have mentioned the possibility as Kickstarter updates and on the webpage to prevent possible future mispurchases.
When the decision was finally made, it should have been announced in a sincere apology article, not in a spin-doctored marketing flyer.
In the same apology article, they should have offered total refunds for those who pledged for it or purchased it, regardless if they played it up to that time.
If it happened like that, I would just be disappointed, but not angry.
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My pennies worth....
I remember some time ago now FD said that they intended to future proof the game to the extent that if the servers were not available then people would be able to set up their own LAN. I would be interested to know how this would work if you still needed to connect to the FD servers.
As for the new mechanics for the single player off line mode, although this is a late announcement, I am sure there are very good reasons for it.
I remember some time ago now FD said that they intended to future proof the game to the extent that if the servers were not available then people would be able to set up their own LAN. I would be interested to know how this would work if you still needed to connect to the FD servers.
As for the new mechanics for the single player off line mode, although this is a late announcement, I am sure there are very good reasons for it.
wolverine2710
Tutorial & Guide Writer
I DO hope you know what you said is very black&white and does NOT help this disucssion. The commanders who are affected by FD´s decision have a very valid concern wrt removal of the pure offline mode.
Maybe the FD team need to go speak to the Shroud of the Avatar team as they are offering the same game modes that ED has just cut.
Shroud of the Avatar game modes:
Single Player Offline Mode: Players will adventure through over 40 hours of story in an interactive world where their choices have consequences, ethical paradoxes give them pause, and they play a vital part in weaving their own story into the immersive world and lore surrounding them.
Selective Multiplayer Modes: If you want to go through the story online you can play with everyone in a single world with three different online modes (Single Player, Friends, and Open).
It seems Richards team have worked it out.
Shroud of the Avatar game modes:
Single Player Offline Mode: Players will adventure through over 40 hours of story in an interactive world where their choices have consequences, ethical paradoxes give them pause, and they play a vital part in weaving their own story into the immersive world and lore surrounding them.
Selective Multiplayer Modes: If you want to go through the story online you can play with everyone in a single world with three different online modes (Single Player, Friends, and Open).
It seems Richards team have worked it out.
Hm, might have to back that also... Used to be a big Ultima fan!
That said, it looks like a static universe, typical for an MMO - so of course they can do it offline.
Pulling offline is pretty low.
Personally speaking, it would have been of very occasional use, and I can live without it, if as I understand things it will be playable with occasional connects?
Fact remains that a certain proportion of the community were genuinely sold on this exactly because of the offline option.
They deserve refunding anything beyond KS IMO. I would not be one of those, but it should happen.
Personally speaking, it would have been of very occasional use, and I can live without it, if as I understand things it will be playable with occasional connects?
Fact remains that a certain proportion of the community were genuinely sold on this exactly because of the offline option.
They deserve refunding anything beyond KS IMO. I would not be one of those, but it should happen.
Well I have made a store support request for a full refund.
I state that EU law requires the product brought to be as was marketed and this is why I feel I have a right to a refund.
I paid about 200 pounds for a product that did not have to be server dependent, now that is not the case I want a refund and if I get it will go to a different game that does allow offline.
I state that EU law requires the product brought to be as was marketed and this is why I feel I have a right to a refund.
I paid about 200 pounds for a product that did not have to be server dependent, now that is not the case I want a refund and if I get it will go to a different game that does allow offline.
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Good point.
Neither has the alternative starting positions and load-outs, or the Founder's system... All of which were "deliverables" on release according to the Kickstarter.
I have an uneasy feeling that Frontier have decided to release prematurely so as to not miss their self-imposed deadline of "before the end of 2014" which they unfortunately trumpeted to the media earlier in the year. Frontier do seem to be great at creating rods for their own back.
And you can be 100% sure the "this is normal..happens on every MMO release"-folks are already waiting in the wings ready to pop out.
With the added argument "This is FD, not EA or Blizzard, how could FD do it when even those big boys can't".
Let's hope we won't see any of that.
It is going to need the same level on consistant connection as the beta does, as confirmed by dev, as it issues transaction be they location changes, mission markets or ship/modules etc you must have a connection to the server at these points.
Well the FD Servers are hosted by Amazon AWS, so in theory they can be scaled up to meet demand, and scaled down when needed. That said, one choke point for many online games isn't so much the "world servers", but the login process. That can be a bottle-neck. No idea if they've got mitigation there also. In theory they can be scaled also. Once logged in, I don't see any particular issues as most moment-to-moment gameplay with other players is P2P. Now we know at the moment that's a bit buggy and needs a lot of improvement and tender, loving, care. If they fix that - things might be just fine.
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Yes, because each post is from a unique visitor....
One problem is that there are people out there who are taking down every utterance on the forums and are rather "lawyer happy". I know from experience that this makes you very guarded in communication and you craft every communication with as much wriggle room as possible.
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I agree that the announcement was a little PR spun (the old package bad news with good news thing). personally, an announcement on the forum in a post from MB or similar, first apologising (he doesn't have to apologise, he's done nothing wrong, it's just an apology is a good way of kicking things off) then putting a good solid technical explanation (this process on the server, that system generated in the cloud etc) would have been better and probably calmed things down a bit. However, hindsight is always 20:20.
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