No Single Player offline Mode then?

[kenny_brocklestein]

From the developers of X Series to a lone men developing Evochron Mercenary and soon Limit Theory, all before have been able to create a compelling offline experience with perfectly functional economies and events. Now with 240 developers, they wish to make people believe in a way seemingly until now was exclusive to the likes of EA and Activision that there's so much computational weight in the cloud (their words) that a few devs can't be pulled aside to work on this which they've presumably worked upon until very recent is beyond me when others have done so with ease. I could be more than sympathetic to a straight forward statement of apology but to bury this which was promised to all backers only a month before release in a pure bait and switch fashion is atrocious.

I forgot about Limit Theory! Josh Parnell is a mad genius, I can't wait to take a spin through that universe.

 

[synchromesh]

Wasn't it always stated ...There will be an offline mode ...But you will initially have to log in first to use it .......Which meant you needed internet anyway ?

 

[Skeloton]

Wasn't it always stated ...There will be an offline mode ...But you will initially have to log in first to use it .......Which meant you needed internet anyway ?

Again with this? Im sorry to inform you but that is not the case. ED will need constant communication with the servers at all times, regardless of chosen mode of play.

 

[Simo3583]

Wasn't it always stated ...There will be an offline mode ...But you will initially have to log in first to use it .......Which meant you needed internet anyway ?

no there is a statement on the kickstarter FAQ that says there would be an offline mode its been linked several times

 

[SJT]

care to explain?

He's on your side.

 

[the darkwalker]

He's on your side.

i still did not get what he meant xD

aaaaah now i got it! sorry! xD

 

[Ref Minor]

I was kinda like that on Friday. Mainly just chipping in every now and then like I am now. But I was just interested in how it was going.

5am roughly was the time I went to bed...on Saturday morning.

Lol me too, 4am here despite needing to be up at 6 for work

 

[Jorlin]

i still did not get what he meant xD

i think he was describing why it is important to repeat the same arguments over and over again: because people seem to forget them before the next page is started....

 

[the darkwalker]

i think he was describing why it is important to repeat the same arguments over and over again: because people seem to forget them before the next page is started....

got it thx

 

[Simo3583]

I was on the fence with this decision but after reading the original kickstarter FAQ I can see why people are miffed I luckily have a internet connection that will do the job but I no longer see FD in the same light.

 

[eberno]

Hhhm,

what ist the problem ?

Where on the Kickstarter Webside does anyone talk about "Offline" Mode ?

Maybe it was an idea to do that, but this doesn't mean that it really comes in the game...
Sometimes the press cites wrong or interprets a little bit.

So kick the press not FD....

Hard luck...

it will be possible to have a single player game without connecting to the galaxy server. You won't get the features of the evolving galaxy (although we will investigate minimising those differences) and you probably won't be able to sync between server and non-server (again we'll investigate).
it will be possible to have a single player game without connecting to the galaxy server. You won't get the features of the evolving galaxy (although we will investigate minimising those differences) and you probably won't be able to sync between server and non-server (again we'll investigate).

 

[Simo3583]

it will be possible to have a single player game without connecting to the galaxy server. You won't get the features of the evolving galaxy (although we will investigate minimising those differences) and you probably won't be able to sync between server and non-server (again we'll investigate).
it will be possible to have a single player game without connecting to the galaxy server. You won't get the features of the evolving galaxy (although we will investigate minimising those differences) and you probably won't be able to sync between server and non-server (again we'll investigate).

yep that 1 on the KS FAQ

 

[SJT]

Hhhm,

what ist the problem ?

Where on the Kickstarter Webside does anyone talk about "Offline" Mode ?
Kickstarter ED

Maybe it was an idea to do that, but this doesn't mean that it really comes in the game...
Sometimes the press cites wrong or interprets a little bit.

So kick the press not FD....

Hard luck...

It's in the FAQ of the link you just posted under "How will single player work". It has been posted here countless times this weekend.

 

[Ref Minor]

I have had no issues with FD or Elite so far ,YET I will NOT be able to play online because I'm moving back to the "outback -Australia- northern territory - end of NOV.
From the very beginning , I questioned Ed and M brookes directly about off line. The reply was that "yes there would be off line ,but 'for now 'we' are concentrating 'on On line".

I cannot and will not defend FD over this decision.

They marketed their fundraising at a group of people who had played Elite and EF games offline for 30 years or more . When challenged by the backers during the fundraising process about the availability of an offline version they assured them there would be one and updated their kickstarter page to confirm this. The funds that followed this announcement allowed the kickstarter to reach its target and the game to be made.

The studio owner and developers have repeatedly referred to the offline version since that time. Discussions have taken place about it on their own forums and in interviews.

Then 1 week before gamma launch they casually toss into a newsletter the fact they are going to renege on this.

Many people do not have constant internet connections. Salesmen, oilmen, sailors, soldiers, people who live in remote areas. These people are quite rightly upset about this u-turn

I find it sad that people try and defend this behaviour. It is simply wrong .

This is disrespect to people who helped fund their game when they asked.

Sadly 'angry reactions' to the kickstart group will suffer .
---------------------personal point of view----------------------
I wouldn't mind the install being on line ..( napoleon total war ) and then , when ever internet is available I can choose to down load updates for the "world of elite" ie new missions/triggers that change markets ,start wars etc--- Much like a general games update.

MY self for example. I will be travelling to the local town to do monthly groceries and purchases. it takes nearly 2 hours drive in a 4x4 or approx. 25 minutes by helicopter.
And like everyone else, I catch up with family on Hotmail/Skype at the local library...and I was hoping that I would only have to update ED with a download .

Yepp we have inter net. NO broad band, and sat link is sooooo unreliable...................... no one uses mobiles ( crap doesn't last in the heat - take note mr apple -) .

but I digress, not everyone has these probs...................so disappointed . as will be my brother when I get home... cos a few hours at the library once a month isn't worth the PBeta dollars I spent, ..................................back to oolite, and frontier on my dads old amiga...

The top part is my post slightly adapted, I just want to point out that the poster quoted above is not me nor in any way connected to me although they do seem to agree with my earlier post.

 

[Dippy]

Oh dear!!! I been on the fence with this for a long time, knowing how things pan out this day and age.

What FD do not understand is offline is Elite to us old timers who like a personal experience, not some gank fest or coin mine. Just chill out and goto space for a few hours.

Also can I just point to a few online only games that worked a treat day one!

Silenthunter 5
Simcity
Diablo 3

All DRM based and to say otherwise is bull.

So MR B its time to done them 1984 slippers and get coding an offline galaxy for us to
play in, enough with the PR get coding and pull it off.

Not being funny you not looking to save bits anymore just your reputation as a developer.

You must release an offline galaxy, even if its a few months after release no problem. Just dont kill it with online only rubbish.

 

[light487]

---------------------personal point of view----------------------
I wouldn't mind the install being on line ..( napoleon total war ) and then , when ever internet is available I can choose to down load updates for the "world of elite" ie new missions/triggers that change markets ,start wars etc--- Much like a general games update.

Yup.. same. This is what I've said myself a few times including my first post to this thread yesterday. I don't have a problem with online authentication or one-time DRM, whatever you want to call it. I don't have a problem with the development team wanting to "push" the idea of data syncing but it should be a choice not forced always-online. Effectively the only difference between "Solo Online" and "Multiplayer Online" is that in Solo you won't have real players zooming around.. it's still online, which requires an active, constant and consistent connection. always-online means always.

It's just not good enough.

 

[mbpoblet]

Hhhm,

what ist the problem ?

Where on the Kickstarter Webside does anyone talk about "Offline" Mode ?
Kickstarter ED

Maybe it was an idea to do that, but this doesn't mean that it really comes in the game...
Sometimes the press cites wrong or interprets a little bit.

So kick the press not FD....

Hard luck...

It's on the kickstarter FAQ, on the comments, on Reddit AMAs, on several interviews... people were still being told they'd be able to play offline as late as last week in this very forums, and bought the game under that assumption (and under that assumption many of us, myself included, misled people into buying a game they won't be able to play, which at least makes me feel like a bit of a [redacted]).

... but you can ignore all that if you want; offline mode is even mentioned on the [redactin'] EULA, three days after the newsletter:

(...)

From the ED Eula:

(emphasis mine)

8. In-Game Advertising
The Game may incorporate technology (which may be provided by Frontier or third party service providers engaged by Frontier (each a “Dynamic Advertising Provider”)) which enables advertising to be uploaded into the Game on your PC, and changed while the Game is being played on-line. In order that the Dynamic Advertising Provider is able to direct advertising appropriate to your Game and geographic region, as well as to the correct location within the computer game, certain non-personally identifiable data and information may be retrieved and retained by the Dynamic Advertising Provider including your I.P. address, geographic location, in-game position, and information concerning the appearance of advertising visible during your gameplay (for example, the length of time an item of advertising was visible, the dimensions of the advertisements). In addition, the Dynamic Advertising Provider may assign a unique identification number which is stored on your PC and which is used to monitor and calculate the number of views of dynamic advertising during gameplay. None of the information collected for this purpose including the identification number can be used to identify you.

The technology employed by Dynamic Advertising Providers may be located outside your country of residence (including outside of the European Union).

Where a Game incorporates dynamic advertising technology, the technology which serves the provision of dynamic in-game advertising is integrated within the Game. This means that if you do not want to receive dynamic advertising, you should only play the game when you are not connected to the Internet.

Isn't that just peachy? Targeted advertising, in your game! Is that an immersion-breaker, or what?

The bit I've highlighted at the very end is especially rich..

Because now, if you unplug, the game won't even work.. So you'll basically be forced to watch any advertising that FD care to sell to third parties. You can't even opt out... can you say "captive audience"? I knew you could!

Maybe it's not the whole reason for pulling offline play, but who's to say it wasn't a factor in the decision? If people can play offline, how can FD push advertising content to their game? And after all, we have no idea just who the anonymous investors that FD partnered with are.. (and please don't insult my intelligence by claiming there aren't any, everyone.. it's pretty clear the KS on its own wasn't sufficient to fund the game - that was about testing the waters.. seeing if sufficient demand was there - someone, or several someones, ponied up a big chunk of cash to help get ED made.)

(And it seem to me rather likely that the same anonymous investors could be behind the push to rush this game to market before it's truly ready)

 

[CHristina]

The top part is my post slightly adapted, I just want to point out that the poster quoted above is not me nor in any way connected to me although they do seem to agree with my earlier post.

Totally agreed with your post on different web site... I cut paste to here . but the cut/paste did not bring with it your name . and couldn't find it to re cut. and quote...
so YES , and thanks ,the top is is part of your post.. and yes total agree... and apologise if offended .. it was not intended .
best wishes.

 

[deMangler]

They did what?

I've gathered some reactions from non-backers over the last couple of days. I just warned a friend that the game she pre-ordered for her gamer husband to play when he travels for work and doesn't have reliable internet access won't have an off-line mode after all. She had no idea until I told her. (I suspected this would be so because I pre-ordered three copies myself to give as Christmas presents, and had no word from the store to alert me of this key change and offer a refund if needed. I only know because I'm a backer). To describe her response as "mad as hell" doesn't do it justice.

I wonder how many other customers who are not backers are going to get a shock? But, as another once potential buyer put it - "FD just screwed over half their backers. Why wouldn't they treat their ordinary customers worse?" Ouch.

My take at this point is that FD don't understand what a big deal cutting offline mode is. If they did, they wouldn't have released the information as spin in the backers' only newsletter at such a late date, with no apology, no offer of recourse for those affected, and no alert to ordinary customers who have pre-ordered from their store.

Out by Default?

Similarly, if they understood how important offline mode is, they wouldn't have lost it. It struck me that they never asked the Design Decision Forum about offline play. In nearly two years of discussions about all kinds of subjects - from weapon/shield mechanics to intrasystem flight to comms, groups, how slavery works, mission suggestions, ironman mode, sanctions for naughty players, cosmetic enhancements and everything between these varied topics - not once did they propose how offline mode works and ask for our input. No what's essential? what's desireable? what can we do without? Apparently, they didn't consider offline play important enough to talk about. The only time I can remember offline mode coming up was in the context of groups, and the finalised proposal that online characters could move offline but not vice-versa. Which makes me wonder now, did they just not write for it, so they've written it out by default?

Perhaps a failure to realise the impact of what they now propose is also responsible for their apparent failure to realise that you can not in good conscience ask people to pledge money for a game, which for nearly two years you repeatedly tell them they'll be able to play, then tell they won't a month before launch; without apology; without offers to compensate. I usually avoid hyperbole because too much loses its impact, but that part is scandalous.

Holy smoke!

I'm also saddened by the loss of potential that ditching offline means. Over the past year I've watched some folk in education get very interested in Elite: Dangerous. I'm thinking especially of the primary school teachers I know who have relationships with other schools in Commonwealth countries and beyond that. I'll paraphrase one - "Wow, this is brilliant: the representation of distance, of orbits, of classes of stars and planets - I can get them to appreciate scale with this, I can get them excited by gravity and centripetal force and... omg, flight assist off? Intertia! Holy smoke!"

Key point - the offline mode was what they wanted. Schools located where utilities are unreliable even if they exist could make use of this. Multiplayer wasn't the point. If anything, it distracts. But the offline mode has really been drumming up interest. More than that, another friend who gave up a career in marketing to take one up in game design (truth!) virtually salivated when she observed, "Imagine millions of school children seeing the Frontier splash-screen every week before they watch something cool and exciting and immersive. You can't buy marketing like that."

Having learned that FD are ditching offline, the latest remarks are along the lines of "Kiss goodbye to all that," "It's dead, Jim," and "Well now that's all kaput."


omg, grown-ups...

Then there's my thirteen-year-old who, with his best mate, has his own funded Kickstarter project for a game they're making. Quote: "We all [he and most of his pals] paid for Minecraft because we can play it online when we have internet but can still play it when we haven't. Don't these grown-ups realise how common that [decision] is?"


No plan B... plan A? A is B... what?

Finally, the loss of offline mode puts a heck of a lot of pressure on the online mode to work out of the box. I live in a town with fibre optic and I pay for very good internet speed (I have teens. You know their priority for wifi exceeds both food and cash). My set-up copes with three, four and sometimes five intensive gamers at once (Mincecraft, Guild Wars 2 and World of Warcraft). I have been testing Elite when I have the house to myself to give the game its best shot, and while I expected problems in Alpha and early Beta, the loading times and jitteriness this close to release, even in solo, make me worry a bit. Knowing that offline was an option, especially if there were teething problems in the first few weeks, mitigated that. Not so now. The online mode had better be sweet, efficient and seamless if that's all there is.

Given that Michael described offline mode as "not impossible", just "impractical", I wonder if the developers are far more suited and equipped to solve that type of impracticality than the many and varied new ones their decision has generated.

Have to quote this. Excellent post. Well put and says so many things that are constructive. Need more posts like this.

 

[Severian]

Oh dear!!! I been on the fence with this for a long time, knowing how things pan out this day and age.

What FD do not understand is offline is Elite to us old timers who like a personal experience, not some gank fest or coin mine. Just chill out and goto space for a few hours.

Also can I just point to a few online only games that worked a treat day one!

Silenthunter 5
Simcity
Diablo 3

All DRM based and to say otherwise is bull.

So MR B its time to done them 1984 slippers and get coding an offline galaxy for us to
play in, enough with the PR get coding and pull it off.

Not being funny you not looking to save bits anymore just your reputation as a developer.

You must release an offline galaxy, even if its a few months after release no problem. Just dont kill it with online only rubbish.

Hello fellow old timer! Solo Online is still an option. You will not see a single breathing human in this mode, but do require basic internet. Meanwhile back to Open Online for this old timer