No Single Player offline Mode then?

[jbt]

There is nothing that I have read on this thread that leads me to believe that litigation against FD would succeed. (I am a practising barrister. I have only skimmed it, because nobody has that much time on their hands, surely?) but people talking about crimes being committed or the prospects of 'class actions' need to just take a deep breath and step away from the internet. Litigation is a process that one goes into as a pig and comes out of as a sausage. By all means claim a refund if you are that offended about the lack of offline play but I would advise that litigation would: a) not lead to an offline mode, b) be expensive, c) be risky and d) not lead to you recovering any more than you have already paid (which in most people's cases is less than £200, or the equivalent of about an hour's worth of a solicitor's time (their fees not being recoverable on claims of this value).

Commander Spook

 

[Kicks]

I just love the other people who are going keyboard warrior over my posts rather than actually reading them in full, go take a look

Oh dear. You can lead a forum poster to clue, but you can't make them think. As for me, I've got some serious mulling to do as to whether I'm going to contact FDEV and ask for a refund, if I'm going to stick around, or whatever. Unlike a lot of people, I don't make decisions quickly, I tend to go and do my research, examine the problem from all angles, even the ones where I get to watch people throw the contents of the kitchen cupboards at each other (this forum thread), then I'll get on with what I intend to do.

As for the rage ball, well, judging by the speed this threadnaught is travelling at, I've pegged it at 125.7c, and accelerating steadily. Attempting to interdict it might be an exercise in futility by now.

Ah, ye old "mulling on a problem"...

if it helps you at all, in your decision... I've been very quick to demand refunds/replacements/kickbacks (teehee), when I have blatantly been fobbed off by a retail store. Most notably PC World (yes I know, don't use them - sometimes I had to!). My ire and wrath was basically because they lied to be about what they could do within a time-frame, and also their staff were moronic. Trying to get an answer out of them was like putting a beefburger in to a grinder and expecting a cow out of the other end. My words were swift. Never legal, I never needed to get that far.

Contrast that with Frontier (let's not go over the communications again )... yeah, they want to do great things. They want a fantastic game. This isn't a cash-grab as explained by others who have trouble breathing without their mouths open....

When it comes to your decision to refund or not... just ask yourself if you're having fun. Is the game delivering something to you, that you enjoy?

Because that's the real crux of the matter. Has it bothered you enough? I can't answer that Mr Tiger person. Only you can. If you decide to walk away, that's fine. That's your beef. Only a fool would disrespect you because you decided it's not for you.

Alternatively, you could stay and embrace the vision.

Holy crap I sound like a cult-leader.

 

[littleminxundr]

Did you read the links? Probably not as you're asking that question... The download is termed as being "faulty" if it "...isn't as the seller described it...", not my words that's the law.

Faulty does not mean a square looking like a sphere. Faulty means that the product is broken in such a manner it's not fit for purpose. Which is why Egosoft had to refund so many people over X-Rebirth they barely kept from going into Administration if memory serves. It might also be hyperbole I'm repeating. The message is that Egosoft has felt that launch resonate in their bonemarrow.

Elite is not broken in such a state that it isn't fit for purpose.

 

[Drexen]

(Though any good lawyer, I suspect, will tell you that the cost of the software is in no way relative to the bill that will be presented to you. And you better be damn sure to be out of his office within the first free 15 minutes, because the advice-bill will probably be higher than what you paid for the Beta.)

It doesn't have to be costly in the UK. http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales..._e/law_taking_legal_action_e/small_claims.htm

 

[Erna Jedermann]

I think that:

1) If you're going the legal route because you're truly feel that you've been wronged and you can't reach rapport, then go for it. (Though any good lawyer, I suspect, will tell you that the cost of the software is in no way relative to the bill that will be presented to you. And you better be damn sure to be out of his office within the first free 15 minutes, because the advice-bill will probably be higher than what you paid for the Beta.)
2) If you do it to hurt Frontier Development, stop a moment to think and realise that over the last four days they have lost many future sales, next to preorders being cancelled they have to honor. This is pure conjecture; but the last four days might have cost them upwards of 50k GBP already.

Running a company is very expensive, this I know first hand.

I agree...there are other legal ways.
And the press will do also good work, do you think that the refuse of refunds wich was "promise"....you can even read in some article about it ....but the white knight will say case to case...but I said...after this PR Stunt it shall be better to let them go....
You know in USA they sometimes have strange judges and courts......

 

[Seonid]

You know in USA they sometimes have strange judges and courts......

Ours are more strange, they wear wigs and stockings.

 

[JughedJones]

The download is not as described. The download was described as having an offline mode, it does not and will not (if the recent news is correct of course).

What I think you're talking about (please correct me if I'm wrong) is whether the alpha/beta versions count as being the equivalent of the final product.

I would suggest, by virtue of the final product being bundled with any alpha/beta purchase, that people who paid for them have a case for a faulty download claim.

No. The download was described as requiring an Internet connection. There was a feature that was deemed to be impractical that will not be included with the final release.

Two different things. If you couldn't use the download, you get refunded.

How could they keep everyone from claiming that they need offline, get a refund, then buying the final release for much less than they pledged? Answer: they could'nt. Therefore, if you downloaded and played it, you don't get a refund.

It's really pretty simple.

 

[ianw]

Ours are more strange, they wear wigs and stockings.

And not just at the weekends, they sometimes wear them to work too!

 

[Demosthien]

And that has what to do with my post? Yep nothing. I was responding to a poster that was trying to state that FD have changed their refund policy in order to stop giving refunds in the last few days. He was wrong. You response has nothing to do with my post or the post I was responding too.

I don't know... Perhaps the bit where you say;

lol no, that has been the policy from the start. The return policy has not changed. It has always been that if you downloaded the game you could not get a refund. Just do a forum search this is not a new thing.

Allow me to paraphrase: The downloaded game cannot be refunded... Do a forum search to find this.

My reply points out that downloading the game does not automatically prevent a refund. Read the link.

 

[ThatFuzzyTiger]

Alternatively, you could stay and embrace the vision.

Holy crap I sound like a cult-leader.

You had me right up to THE VISION. I swear, that needs to become a thing.

Yes, I think I agree with you in full, my main issue with the whole thing is that it has a very distinct flavour of the Simcity and Diablo 3 messes around them, and I avoided them both because of the whole "Must be online to play single-player modes" thing, knowing full well that launch day -never- goes as smooth as anticipated. If the 16th goes smoothly, well, it'll be a small miracle, my overriding fear is that come the day of the launch proper we all end up stuck staring at a login screen. What then? An army of forum apologists saying "It's launch day, everything will be fine" ?

That's my big worry, it puts the MMO spin into things, with all the risks and issues and downtimes an MMO entails, but without the upsides an MMO brings.

 

[1500]

Ours are more strange, they wear wigs and stockings.

Nah the US wins.

[video=youtube;BCe8D3TSFGk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCe8D3TSFGk[/video]

 

[Titus Balls]

Since Derek Smart was possibly on the forums today, I wonder if this thread is now longer than the "longest running flamewar"

It was quite funny for David Braben to ask if it was *the* Derek Smart.

Ah man, that Derek Smart....


Dammit, I said his name three times

 

[kenny_brocklestein]

Alternatively, you could stay and embrace the vision.

Holy crap I sound like a cult-leader.

You do. Lots of you people do. Every time I hear one of you folk use the word 'vision' unironically I can't help but wonder when the man in the robes with the punchbowl is going to show up.

 

[nexxo]

I just read the DB intends to release various archives of the server when it goes down.

So there is hope, the ability to play the game for life is my number one requirement of this game. At least now there is hope.

So he says. People say a lot of things when they're trying to talk someone down from a building ledge. I'll believe it when I see it.

Are you still playing ELITE? Still playing Elite II? Awesome as Elite Dangerous is, you won't be playing it for life. If you're still playing it in ten years it will be because it continuously evolved, expanded and improved. Otherwise you'll enjoy it for 2-3 years and move on to the next latest greatest thing.

 

[kwh]

For my part, I'm still struggling to believe the explanation - as I posted in the wrong thread earlier (oops), I'm still not really buying it - we know there is server software, currently running on Linux cloud servers we believe... these will be Virtual servers. Several GPL OTS VM clients that can run on a single core of any decent multi-core processor exist, so you could (it stands to reason) run the live server software on a local VM as you played the game, right? A few compiler directives to ensure that the #onlinegameplay code that converts other player's activities into events is seeded by a random number generator in the #offlinegameplay version of the code and bosh, one codebase with two different builds, supporting both Online and Single user offline... just have the client connect to 'localhost' for offline gameplay rather than the ED servers. If they've used grown up back end databases in the multi-user server implementation, instead use PostGres or MySQL or the pocket version of SQL Server like for like in the offline build of the VM...

Whatever it is they've done technically with the servers, I cannot imagine how that wouldn't work... can anybody think of a good technical reason why that model wouldn't work? it might require a more powerful PC than online play, with more RAM etc... or you could maybe drag an old PC out of the cupboard and turn it into a dedicated local offline ED server, and run the ED local server VM on that...

 

[1500]

I don't know... Perhaps the bit where you say;



Allow me to paraphrase: The downloaded game cannot be refunded... Do a forum search to find this.

My reply points out that downloading the game does not automatically prevent a refund. Read the link.

Your link has nothing to do with FD policy. As my post was about FD policy on refunds now and in the past and nothing more, your response had nothing to do with my post or the post that I was responding too.

 

[CmdrPSB]

Are you still playing ELITE? Still playing Elite II? Awesome as Elite Dangerous is, you won't be playing it for life. If you're still playing it in ten years it will be because it continuously evolved, expanded and improved. Otherwise you'll enjoy it for 2-3 years and move on to the next latest greatest thing.

Now you've done it, there will be people here in a jiffy to tell you they are

 

[Kicks]

You do. Lots of you people do. Every time I hear one of you folk use the word 'vision' unironically I can't help but wonder when the man in the robes with the punchbowl is going to show up.

No joke, as a creative person responsible for software development myself, I do understand the word "vision" and I use it regularly.

That aside, do you have any womenfolk I can recruit? We're really short of 'em in my space-craft.

 

[Jason S]

I wonder how many people in beta did not download the game and did actually get a refund.

 

[NeoRacer]

Because they said so! Now we can just move a long from this, DB pretty much shut it down and I dont see why people are still going on about it. Its done. Over.Finito. Enjoy the game

Whatever it is they've done technically with the servers, I cannot imagine how that wouldn't work... can anybody think of a good technical reason why that model wouldn't work? it might require a more powerful PC than online play, with more RAM etc... or you could maybe drag an old PC out of the cupboard and turn it into a dedicated local offline ED server, and run the ED local server VM on that...