No Single Player offline Mode then?

[DaveS1]

Actually no - the "subject to change" bit in the "Risks and Challenges" section was PART of the agreement. It is neither illegal nor immoral. However, you finding it personally offensive, having been burned by it, is quite understandable and I'[m not going to criticize you for that. I can see FD doing "something", but I'm not sure what to compensate you but they are certainly under no obligation to do so.

moral
adjective
adjective: moral
1.
concerned with the principles of right and wrong behaviour.

So, it is not illegal (as I clearly said) but it is clearly not moral. It may be business, it may be the way things are, it may even be just another sign of how money talks and once you have £1.5 Million in the bank you can do whatever you want, but to claim it isn't immoral is so absurd it beggars belief.

Man up and tell it like it is - FD have taken our money and we ain't never getting it back.

 

[vonFelty]

My point is, WE, the comunity shoul'd stop fighting each other. why are we doing that? We are all dreaming the same, elite universe. The thing that just happened to "offliners" may happen to "onliners" tommorrow, although not in such extent, but some features might be scrapped. But for us, the game is just unplayable without offline SP, So, please, try to understand!

And I'm pretty sure FDs woul'd also act differently if we all stick together in situations like this...

Exactly. If FDev is capable of doing this to some players, they can turn around and do it to all. Players should not be blinded by "THE VISION" and stick together so that this does not happen again in the future.

 

[Driconis]

My point is, WE, the comunity shoul'd stop fighting each other. why are we doing that? We are all dreaming the same, elite universe. The thing that just happened to "offliners" may happen to "onliners" tommorrow, although not in such extent, but some features might be scrapped. But for us, the game is just unplayable without offline SP, So, please, try to understand!

And I'm pretty sure FDs woul'd also act differently if we all stick together in situations like this...

Excellent point. After having to absorb this news I am really skeptical that other "planned" features would not end up on the cutting room floor due to FD declaring it impractical to implement while maintaining their vision for the future of the game. I doubt the community would be quite so divided if planetary landings failed to make the cut, but you never know :-/

 

[DaveB]

Not much candidness going on here to my eye

WHiel I understand "not much" is quite subjective, I think if you were to consult a lawyer on the matter he would tell you that the Risks and Challenges section of the KS was sufficient, because do you honestly think FD would not have consulted a lawyer on their wording of the KS page?

 

[vonFelty]

WHiel I understand "not much" is quite subjective, I think if you were to consult a lawyer on the matter he would tell you that the Risks and Challenges section of the KS was sufficient, because do you honestly think FD would not have consulted a lawyer on their wording of the KS page?

You can be completely legal and still do things that are not moral.

 

[Zuikaku]

Excellent point. After having to absorb this news I am really skeptical that other "planned" features would not end up on the cutting room floor due to FD declaring it impractical to implement while maintaining their vision for the future of the game. I doubt the community would be quite so divided if planetary landings failed to make the cut, but you never know :-/

It woul'd be ideal if all of us could unite and fight for the game we were promised and have paid for. Unfortunatelly, that unity is probably impossible to achieve...

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WHiel I understand "not much" is quite subjective, I think if you were to consult a lawyer on the matter he would tell you that the Risks and Challenges section of the KS was sufficient, because do you honestly think FD would not have consulted a lawyer on their wording of the KS page?

Broken promises is a very dangerous adventure for any game developer, especially the ones that used crowdfunding to get the projects started.

 

[m000]

Agreed. Does anyone believe FD seriously tried to implement a fully-offline mode?

This is what makes people furious: It is not a technical problem or lack of resources that lead to the cancelation of offline. Rather it seems to be a deliberate and probably planned deviation from the vision FD presented to the backers.

 

[baja2215]

People - stop complaining at each other. The point has been made numerous times and increasing the length of this thread serves no real purpose ... oh that'll include my post too

8300+ posts, whatever you're about to say in this thread almost certainly has already been said (assuming you stay on topic).

I would say FD are well aware of the numbers of the vocal minority with grievance against the issue of offline-sp mode. There's almost certainly a silent majority sitting there; some probably not even aware of the chaos on the forum - they're simply playing the game! Those of us lucky enough to be able to play should get back to doing that - the rest should take a break and do something a little more constructive now.....

Just my 2 cents .... I did write a larger post but somehow the swear filter seemed to think I'd sworn - so you'll have to make do with this cut down version

 

[vonFelty]

People - stop complaining at each other. The point has been made numerous times and increasing the length of this thread serves no real purpose ... oh that'll include my post too

8300+ posts, whatever you're about to say in this thread almost certainly has already been said (assuming you stay on topic).

I would say FD are well aware of the numbers of the vocal minority with grievance against the issue of offline-sp mode. There's almost certainly a silent majority sitting there; some probably not even aware of the chaos on the forum - they're simply playing the game! Those of us lucky enough to be able to play should get back to doing that - the rest should take a break and do something a little more constructive now.....

Just my 2 cents .... I did write a larger post but somehow the swear filter seemed to think I'd sworn - so you'll have to make do with this cut down version

If you remain silent then its safe to say that it will only happen again to some other feature.

Either they need to:

1.) Add offline

2.) Give everyone a refund to everyone who asks for it.

So far neither seems to be happening.

 

[Erna Jedermann]

People - stop complaining at each other. The point has been made numerous times and increasing the length of this thread serves no real purpose ... oh that'll include my post too

8300+ posts, whatever you're about to say in this thread almost certainly has already been said (assuming you stay on topic).

I would say FD are well aware of the numbers of the vocal minority with grievance against the issue of offline-sp mode. There's almost certainly a silent majority sitting there; some probably not even aware of the chaos on the forum - they're simply playing the game! Those of us lucky enough to be able to play should get back to doing that - the rest should take a break and do something a little more constructive now.....

Just my 2 cents .... I did write a larger post but somehow the swear filter seemed to think I'd sworn - so you'll have to make do with this cut down version

Agree but only if the white knights stop to
Jump to the refund thread and explain why its not right to claim refund....agree too ?

 

[Vargur]

It does look like FD have finally entered the big leagues now.
Usually legal prattle, cutting core features, rushing releases is mostly things attributed to evil publisher overlords.
But when push comes to shove, 'indies' act very much the same.

So for an end user it makes very little difference anymore whether you support an indie or a publisher, you will be treated the same way.
Having no publisher is only a boon to the devs because then they get to play with the marbles.

 

[Driconis]

It woul'd be ideal if all of us could unite and fight for the game we were promised and have paid for. Unfortunatelly, that unity is probably impossible to achieve...

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Broken promises is a very dangerous adventure for any game developer, especially the ones that used crowdfunding to get the projects started.

At this point I would have to agree, the community is quite fractured as is evident within this thread alone. Had it gone the other way(i.e. multiplayer abandoned), I'm quite sure I would have been just as disappointed as I am over this. It casts doubt over all future plans.

I will simply chalk this up as a lesson learned. No more kickstarters for me, ever. No more beta support, ever. No matter how enticing any project looks. I'm done. I had alot of faith in this project and I expected more from FDEV especially in the area of communication. In my opinion, if they can fall to this level, anyone can

 

[Kharax]

Finally this is just like a bunch of kids in a toyshop screaming like there getting abused from there mother, all invite attention making,
but in fact just Because mother is only buying the smaller version of the toy there want.

Call me Ignorant or whatever but this is Exactly what this is all about.

 

[Saetan]

It seems to me that following DB's Q&A today, this is where we're at:

• Offline mode is definitely out. They tried but the solutions they came up with just didnt cut it. This has upset a few folks for different reasons.
  • Some folks are worried about "What if the servers go away? Will I still be able to play it in 30 years?" Given DB's statement in the Q&A about FD taking periodic archives of the game, including server code and galaxy state and their intention to release such an archive if they ever did decide to shut down the servers, I think we're covered here. This is all the resources needed to take over and establish community-run servers and given the community around Elite it's pretty much a no-brainer that this would happen.

So, DB's statement for KS was, there will be an full offline variant, wasn't it? Is it the same "will be", as it's for the release of the dedicated server software? I don't give a clue on it, as long as it's not released! If FD is going to be sold some time, it would be a loss of worth if this server software would get to public domain then, as there would be private servers possible but a new owner maybe would like to sell access to their own servers. Maybe he even doesn't want to and he shuts them down, but he likes to secure his own rights on the software? Never happend yet?

The only reason in my opinion why FD doesn't want to release the server software is the same as above. They want to have full control, unless what will ever happen in future. If they want to sell FD/Elite franchise, they want to have a better position for negotiations. Or if they want to sell access to their servers sometimes, they most likely don't want to have free public servers.

Technically, I see absolutely no reason not being able to run a dedicated server software for Elite Dangerous to connect locally or via public servers. The secrets of the online universe shouldn't be revealed? Lets use other seeds.

Support is not possible for an unlimited number of seeds? Just make only one official seed for downloadable server software.

Offline players could spoil offline secrets to other offline players? Who cares? They play only for themselves. If they have fun spoiling or cheating, just let them have their own decission. It's their game. Fully offline. Only on their hardware, not on official servers hardware. Why do you care? If there is still a need for multiple offline seeds, just make only one official and supported and all the others only unsupported. Shouldn't be a big thing, should it?

If there are still some secrets which are hardcoded and not affected by seeds, these problems could be solved some other way. Sure that will need some more development time then, so it may not be finished until release, but why not delivering as fast as possible after release?

I did my step in with PremiumBeta, and I already had a lot of fun since then, nearly all the time in open universe. Especially I really liked to give FD/DB my money to kick the publishers asses: It had a big part of "morality"-like decission to invest so much money into an unfinished game, just to show publishers what a costumer focused quality game design is being worth! But now I have the feeling, DB and FD isn't any better than the big publisher companies. My trust seems to be abused, because of eliminating a real offline variant which was announced and now it won't be released for some sleazy reason. It won't be a classics in years, that I'm still being able to play and having fun with, just because servers will be shut down some time in the future and there won't be a released dedicated server software then. You say I'm wrong? It's the same "will" as DB/FD has used, let future prove which one is wrong. For now at least DB/FD have broke their announcement for an offline variant.

That's why I must come to my clue, that I have supported the wrong person for the wrong reasons. My concratulations to DB and his team for this achievement.

But they can prove me wrong ... so Frontier, just release a dedicated server software or another form of fully offline variant of Elite Dangerous as soon as possible. Will you be able to get the achievement proving me wrong instead?

 

[m000]

I would say FD are well aware of the numbers of the vocal minority with grievance against the issue of offline-sp mode. There's almost certainly a silent majority sitting there; some probably not even aware of the chaos on the forum - they're simply playing the game!

It is good that some people already enjoy the game, but please don't try to downplay the issue for the rest of us.

I believe the situation is quite the opposite of what you describe. The group of of people that really looked forward to the offline mode is those who don't have enough time to invest in an (arguably better) multiplayer gaming experience. Many of those people may not even have heard of the news because they don't have enough free time to check the gaming news. So they cannot be vocal about their opinion.
I only learned the news because it made it to slashdot. And I had to reset my forum password to post. Many people probably don't even have a forum account.

On the other hand, all those who view offline as totally pointless are probably already spending a lot of time online. So they will be the first to react to the discussion.

At any rate, it is trivial for FD to host an online poll and measure the sentiment between supporters/backers. If they really care about their fanbase and don't have aspirations to be the next EA

 

[Driconis]

It does look like FD have finally entered the big leagues now.
Usually legal prattle, cutting core features, rushing releases is mostly things attributed to evil publisher overlords.
But when push comes to shove, 'indies' act very much the same.

So for an end user it makes very little difference anymore whether you support an indie or a publisher, you will be treated the same way.
Having no publisher is only a boon to the devs because then they get to play with the marbles.

Hence the reason I will no longer support any indie or publisher with a KS pledge or beta. I am well aware this will only hurt future development, but until there is some form of legally enforceable accountability between indies/publisher and backers, situations like this will be commonplace. Vote with your wallet

 

[danjo]

so many sad and bitter adults in children's clothing!

 

[DarkWalker]

Are people getting confused between offline mode and solo mode? Solo mode will remain.

No, most people are not confused about that. But many that defend FD's utterly unethical behavior think that the only reasons to want to play offline are when one wants to play solo or when an Internet connection isn't available. That is not always the case.

Whatever. Though whenever anyone asks me about the game I will make sure they get the full story of this mess.

 

[ThatFuzzyTiger]

Hence the reason I will no longer support any indie or publisher with a KS pledge or beta. I am well aware this will only hurt future development, but until there is some form of legally enforceable accountability between indies/publisher and backers, situations like this will be commonplace. Vote with your wallet

I'm down to supporting very, very small ventures, where I can get directly and personally involved and I can actually have a proper one to one conversation with the people making the game at some stage. It restricts my options greatly, but the result is that I get to look into some genuinely interesting things, and sometimes my feedback and response gets made into something useful. There's something to be said for going right the way back to basics.

 

[vonFelty]

Finally this is just like a bunch of kids in a toyshop screaming like there getting abused from there mother, all invite attention making,
but in fact just Because mother is only buying the smaller version of the toy there want.

Call me Ignorant or whatever but this is Exactly what this is all about.

Great ad ad hominem attack.

Great analogy by the way. I suppose it would work if that kid had a paying job and had used their own money to pay for the toy. I mean unless FDev is giving everyone copies for free like a mother would.