No Single Player offline Mode then?

[ak785]

Holy cow! I didn't even know this thread existed until I read about it on the BBC News Website!!!

I seriously do not understand what people are complaining about.

You need an internet connection to be connected to the persistent world that Frontier are making. You need an internet connection to log into the client in the first instance, you needed an internet connection to download the game in the first place.

This isn't the 1980's anymore, this is 2014, the vast majority of games now require online connectivity - and I don't foresee this being a problem for everyone posting here because you need an internet connection!

What value would an offline version even bring? None whatsoever other than being able to play when your internet connection is down.

 

[-c-s-]

It does look like FD have finally entered the big leagues now.
Usually legal prattle, cutting core features, rushing releases is mostly things attributed to evil publisher overlords.
But when push comes to shove, 'indies' act very much the same.

So for an end user it makes very little difference anymore whether you support an indie or a publisher, you will be treated the same way.
Having no publisher is only a boon to the devs because then they get to play with the marbles.

So what you are saying is that the real source of the problem are shareholders? Interesting suggestion.

 

[vonFelty]

Holy cow! I didn't even know this thread existed until I read about it on the BBC News Website!!!

I seriously do not understand what people are complaining about.

You need an internet connection to be connected to the persistent world that Frontier are making. You need an internet connection to log into the client in the first instance, you needed an internet connection to download the game in the first place.

This isn't the 1980's anymore, this is 2014, the vast majority of games now require online connectivity - and I don't foresee this being a problem for everyone posting here because you need an internet connection!

What value would an offline version even bring? None whatsoever other than being able to play when your internet connection is down.

But they promised an offline version in the kickstarter, on reddit, and on the website until last Friday. Apparently people spent a lot of money on this game believing that.

If they had said from the start that this was an online only game I'm sure people wouldn't come on the forums and demand an offline (I mean they do not do that with World of Warcraft).

Instead the company said time and time again there would be an offline version and changed their stance at the last moment.

That is why there is a problem.

 

[m000]

This isn't the 1980's anymore, this is 2014, the vast majority of games now require online connectivity - and I don't foresee this being a problem for everyone posting here because you need an internet connection!

Is it 2014? Go play your CoD or EVE Online then.

 

[ak785]

Is it 2014? Go play your CoD or EVE Online then.

What does that reply even mean?!

But they promised an offline version in the kickstarter, on reddit, and on the website until last Friday. Apparently people spent a lot of money on this game believing that.

I know what they promised but they are the custodians of an iconic game, do you not think they've tried every angle to get an 'offline' version?! They've informed us they can't deliver an offline version. What should they do, stop making Elite Dangerous because there isn't an 'offline' mode? come on ...

 

[-c-s-]

What value would an offline version even bring? None whatsoever other than being able to play when your internet connection is down.

That is true for someone what does not value being able to play without an internet connection. But what about someone that DOES value that feature?

What if it was that very feature that was the only tangible support for the claim of being "DRM-free"?

What if you were one of the misty-eyed dreamers that helped push Frontier across the Kickstarter finish line -- thus ensuring that Elite would be reborn -- because David committed to a feature that convinced you that they were serious about standing by their customers and not just giving empty lip-service?

Why is it exactly that "bait and switch" feels like betrayal and treason? Because it is.

 

[Driconis]

I'm down to supporting very, very small ventures, where I can get directly and personally involved and I can actually have a proper one to one conversation with the people making the game at some stage. It restricts my options greatly, but the result is that I get to look into some genuinely interesting things, and sometimes my feedback and response gets made into something useful. There's something to be said for going right the way back to basics.

A lot of what you say makes sense. Perhaps at some point I will test the waters again with some small project. Just not now, not for awhile. And not with any non indie developers. While I do not buy into the DRM theory and some of the other theories for the dropping of offline mode, I have a distinct feeling that there is more going on behind the scenes than meets the eye regarding this whole issue, particularly regarding FDEV's Cobra Engine. I think ED is going to be the test bed for this. And I believe its cross platform. If I'm right, look for ED on Xbox One sometime next year. I don't really have an issue with this, but please, just a little honesty goes a long way.

 

[Dave Leestir]

Holy cow! I didn't even know this thread existed until I read about it on the BBC News Website!!!

I seriously do not understand what people are complaining about.

You need an internet connection to be connected to the persistent world that Frontier are making. You need an internet connection to log into the client in the first instance, you needed an internet connection to download the game in the first place.

This isn't the 1980's anymore, this is 2014, the vast majority of games now require online connectivity - and I don't foresee this being a problem for everyone posting here because you need an internet connection!

What value would an offline version even bring? None whatsoever other than being able to play when your internet connection is down.

That you didn't know this thread existed until today is quite obvious by your missing all of the reasons why removing offline can be and is an issue for many real people.

There are lots of explanations in this thread - good luck reading through it to find them now it's so big.

For a clue, imagine FD had said that they now require you to be connect via fibre optic infrastructure.
Surely you know that not everyone - even in the UK for example - has access to that technology - the providers haven't built their network everywhere.
(That doesn't just mean remote rural communities, there are towns where some streets are cabled and some aren't.)

Then think about the fact that people aren't always in the same place all year round.
There really are some practical, as well as more philosophical reasons why this is a real issue for real people.

 

[vonFelty]

What does that reply even mean?!



I know what they promised but they are the custodians of an iconic game, do you not think they've tried every angle to get an 'offline' version?! They've informed us they can't deliver an offline version. What should they do, stop making Elite Dangerous because there isn't an 'offline' mode? come on ...

Why did it take them until one month before release to say this? Didn't they have meeting at the very start of development and assign people to work on offline mode? Did these people give any status updates on the fact the process was not going well?

It appears they never worked on it and ignored it until the last moment when they realized they had no choice but to announced there would be no offline.

 

[Riktar]

To all who mentioned we should stand together regardless of whether offline was or was not important: Bravo!!
.
To all who tried to dismiss the offline being cut: You are getting no brownie points for the future if something YOU wanted to see becomes "impractical".
.
At the end of this thread and argument, if this community does not stand united in calling out Frontier for not delivering what they said (And stop with the "they never promised" nonsense. Intent is just as accountable as a promise) they would include, I promise you this will not be the last "impractical" feature that gets dropped because it doesn't fit the "vision" of the game.
.
Or messes with the "vision" of the bottom line,,,,,,,,,,,
.
Forget the individual point. Look at the principle in all this.

 

[poet1960]

Holy cow! I didn't even know this thread existed until I read about it on the BBC News Website!!!

I seriously do not understand what people are complaining about.

You need an internet connection to be connected to the persistent world that Frontier are making. You need an internet connection to log into the client in the first instance, you needed an internet connection to download the game in the first place.

This isn't the 1980's anymore, this is 2014, the vast majority of games now require online connectivity - and I don't foresee this being a problem for everyone posting here because you need an internet connection!

What value would an offline version even bring? None whatsoever other than being able to play when your internet connection is down.

Bwahahahahaha! Hey dude, did you ever stop to consider that maybe, just maybe, some people like to play games offline to avoid people like, you know...you? Seriously, how does it being 2014 imply that we should only be playing games that require you to maintain an internet connection?

Would you buy a vacuum cleaner that only worked when the dealer decided to open his doors or remained in business? Think about that. Otherwise, what you are buying isn't even good for using as a coaster for your coffee table like a CD would be at least.

 

[Fasty]

Finally this is just like a bunch of kids in a toyshop screaming like there getting abused from there mother, all invite attention making,
but in fact just Because mother is only buying the smaller version of the toy there want.

Call me Ignorant or whatever but this is Exactly what this is all about.

I haven't posted an analogy in this thread yet (and goodness knows it needs another one), but it's nothing like that. It's MORE like:

I give my mum $150 of my money I saved up for to get me a pair of Brand X shoes, but ONLY if they're a size 10. I tell her to repeat what I said back to me to make sure she understands. "Only get the shoes if they're a size 10, got it" she replies. Upon returning she tells me the didn't have size 10, but she thought I'd be able to squeeze into a pair of size 9s so she got those. So now I'm walking around $150 poorer with sore feet.

Sore feet =
- Can't play the game launch day/week/month due to inevitable server issues (See Sim-City, Diablo, ACUnity, COD:AW, Halo MC Collection, DriveClub). Unable to play offline while waiting for them to be rectified.
- Having goods in my cargo hold that were profitable when I bought them but worthless the next time I log in.
- No ability to pause if the phone rings in the middle of a dogfight/while docking etc.
- Unable to play the game if my internet is down. If I move house, which I do often, internet can take over a month to reconnect.
- Playing the game only for as long as Frontier keep the servers up (sorry if I don't trust them to release the archived versions of server states after the "product lifespan" is over)

 

[ecgallagher]

I haven't posted an analogy in this thread yet (and goodness knows it needs another one), but it's nothing like that. It's MORE like:

I give my mum $150 of my money I saved up for to get me a pair of Brand X shoes, but ONLY if they're a size 10. I tell her to repeat what I said back to me to make sure she understands. "Only get the shoes if they're a size 10, got it" she replies. Upon returning she tells me the didn't have size 10, but she thought I'd be able to squeeze into a pair of size 9s so she got those. So now I'm walking around $150 poorer with sore feet.

Sore feet =
- Can't play the game launch day/week/month due to inevitable server issues (See Sim-City, Diablo, ACUnity, COD:AW, Halo MC Collection, DriveClub). Unable to play offline while waiting for them to be rectified.
- Having goods in my cargo hold that were profitable when I bought them but worthless the next time I log in.
- No ability to pause if the phone rings in the middle of a dogfight/while docking etc.
- Unable to play the game if my internet is down. If I move house, which I do often, internet can take over a month to reconnect.
- Playing the game only for as long as Frontier keep the servers up (sorry if I don't trust them to release the archived versions of server states after the "product lifespan" is over)

But you should be able to return the shoes for a full refund as long as you don't wear them for a week or so and then try to return them.
Which is what a lot of people here are struggling with in trying to get a refund for alpha/beta purchases.
One lesson to learn - never let your mum buy your shoes, clothes or software.

 

[Mengy]

I will simply chalk this up as a lesson learned. No more kickstarters for me, ever. No more beta support, ever. No matter how enticing any project looks. I'm done. I had alot of faith in this project and I expected more from FDEV especially in the area of communication. In my opinion, if they can fall to this level, anyone can

It's a great lesson to learn, and it's why I almost never ever buy games before they are released. The only exception I ever made to that rule was Minecraft in 2010 and Kerbal Space Program, and both were good decisions in my opinion.

I wanted to support David back in the kickstarter but I kept my wallet closed because I'd seen so many horror stories from other kickstarter fiascos. I've wanted to buy the Elite beta for over a year now, but I held fast to my rule because I know what can happen. I was honestly arguing with myself for the past few weeks about buying the Mercenary Edition, but still I kept to my rule and waited because in video games, even smaller developers, lies and deceptions happen every day, so still I kept to my guns and waited for December 16th.

Now, in retrospect of the past few days, I've been reminded of WHY I listened to my brain over my heart. Thank God I did.

Never trust anyone in the video games industry. It's a business for 95% of the developers, and they will do whatever they can to make money over pleasing people or honoring commitments. There are exceptions to that of course, and up until a few days ago I would have placed David in that exception too. And I would have been wrong, because I've not seen as much as an apology from him on this yet. Not even a simple apology.

Keep this in mind Driconis going forward from here, always wait for release of a game before buying. No exceptions.

 

[Dave Leestir]

A lot of what you say makes sense. Perhaps at some point I will test the waters again with some small project. Just not now, not for awhile. And not with any non indie developers. While I do not buy into the DRM theory and some of the other theories for the dropping of offline mode, I have a distinct feeling that there is more going on behind the scenes than meets the eye regarding this whole issue, particularly regarding FDEV's Cobra Engine. I think ED is going to be the test bed for this. And I believe its cross platform. If I'm right, look for ED on Xbox One sometime next year. I don't really have an issue with this, but please, just a little honesty goes a long way.

My problem with that approach to any future KS is that, well I think that FD was an indie at the time.

I backed them (along with many others), only to find later that they decided on an IPO.

It seems a bit risky to back any other KS projects in future, as anyone indie may not stay that way during delivery (or non-delivery) of the project.

I feel happier sending my pennies the way of PledgeMusic or similar - my CDs haven't turned up with offline listening disabled so far

In fact, I wonder whether the FD promises (offline, DRM-free) being broken would actually bring KS into disrepute?

 

[poet1960]

But you should be able to return the shoes for a full refund as long as you don't wear them for a week or so and then try to return them.
Which is what a lot of people here are struggling with in trying to get a refund for alpha/beta purchases.
One lesson to learn - never let your mum buy your shoes, clothes or software.

That is a excuse. It assumes that that person KNEW that the devs were going to dump offline SP, which obviously ISN'T the case since they just dropped this bombshell.

 

[Cosmos]

Holy cow! I didn't even know this thread existed until I read about it on the BBC News Website!!!

I seriously do not understand what people are complaining about.

You need an internet connection to be connected to the persistent world that Frontier are making. You need an internet connection to log into the client in the first instance, you needed an internet connection to download the game in the first place.

This isn't the 1980's anymore, this is 2014, the vast majority of games now require online connectivity - and I don't foresee this being a problem for everyone posting here because you need an internet connection!

What value would an offline version even bring? None whatsoever other than being able to play when your internet connection is down.

They are complaining about a feature of the game that was important to them, that they backed because of, reassured numerous times would be a part of it, who were part of the group that made the entire game possible in the first place, and at the 11th hour has been dropped in a dismissive fashion.

 

[Driconis]

It's a great lesson to learn, and it's why I almost never ever buy games before they are released. The only exception I ever made to that rule was Minecraft in 2010 and Kerbal Space Program, and both were good decisions in my opinion.

I wanted to support David back in the kickstarter but I kept my wallet closed because I'd seen so many horror stories from other kickstarter fiascos. I've wanted to buy the Elite beta for over a year now, but I held fast to my rule because I know what can happen. I was honestly arguing with myself for the past few weeks about buying the Mercenary Edition, but still I kept to my rule and waited because in video games, even smaller developers, lies and deceptions happen every day, so still I kept to my guns and waited for December 16th.

Now, in retrospect of the past few days, I've been reminded of WHY I listened to my brain over my heart. Thank God I did.

Never trust anyone in the video games industry. It's a business for 95% of the developers, and they will do whatever they can to make money over pleasing people or honoring commitments. There are exceptions to that of course, and up until a few days ago I would have placed David in that exception too. And I would have been wrong, because I've not seen as much as an apology from him on this yet. Not even a simple apology.

Keep this in mind Driconis going forward from here, always wait for release of a game before buying. No exceptions.

Agreed, and I will also admit that Minecraft and KSP were 2 of the best decisions I've made as well. As for this..... after all, it was David Braben WHAT could possibly go wrong?

 

[ecgallagher]

That is a excuse. It assumes that that person KNEW that the devs were going to dump offline SP, which obviously ISN'T the case since they just dropped this bombshell.

Peace - I said nothing about it being an excuse. It was only building off his analogy and alluding to the trouble people are having obtaining refunds.
And tried to add a bit of humor at the end.
I was not defending FD nor attacking the rights of those trying to get refunds or their reason for doing so.

 

[poet1960]

Holy cow! I didn't even know this thread existed until I read about it on the BBC News Website!!!

I seriously do not understand what people are complaining about.

You need an internet connection to be connected to the persistent world that Frontier are making. You need an internet connection to log into the client in the first instance, you needed an internet connection to download the game in the first place.

This isn't the 1980's anymore, this is 2014, the vast majority of games now require online connectivity - and I don't foresee this being a problem for everyone posting here because you need an internet connection!

What value would an offline version even bring? None whatsoever other than being able to play when your internet connection is down.

The other irony of this statement is this. You have a phone or cable tv right? It's always on right? I guess they should be making games that require you to maintain a phone connection or a cable connection to play too right? Afterall, it's 2014 right?

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Heh, no problem. It isn't directed at you personally, just the idea.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Peace - I said nothing about it being an excuse. It was only building off his analogy and alluding to the trouble people are having obtaining refunds.
And tried to add a bit of humor at the end.
I was not defending FD nor attacking the rights of those trying to get refunds or their reason for doing so.

Sorry, my reply to this got auto merged, see reply in previous post I guess.