No Single Player offline Mode then?

[Vlodec]

..........................I backed the game to a pretty high level, but to all intents and purposes, consider me an ex-backer. Enjoy your game... happily safe in the knowledge that without people like myself there would be no game for you to play.

All I would ask in return is that you remember how we were treated, and discarded. Particularly when the same thing happens to you in Elite's future.

Because it will. Count on it.

Oh yesssss, I have a long list of people I'm expecting to see back in a ragethread about something else in the future. I'm going to have so much fun. ^^
At that point, it will be €60 well spent.

And when that happens be sure to remind them how they told us to "move along", "get a life", "don't criticise FD" etc. etc.

Perhaps I should stock up on beer and pringles in anticipation.

 

[-c-s-]

Sorry but It think the problem here is purely that most misunderstand EXACTLY what kickstarter actually IS! you are not pre buying a defined product like you might when pre purchasing a game on steam or origin.

You are GIVING money to a company who have a VISION of something they want to create. They do give an outline of their intentions but these intentions may not come to fruition. I am sorry if that concept has been misunderstood, but seriously some of you NEED to get over this. It is only a GAME, there is still a SOLO world to play in (some are still moaning they have to "share" their universe (as if it isn't big enough).

The money given at kickstarter was pledged for these guys to make the best game they could - a minority here actually have a case as they held back the pledge until the offline mode was announced, but seriously it is not all of you and you know it.

To quote from the KS Terms of Use:

When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers.

The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers.

A reward tier of a Physical DRM-free collector's premium boxed edition of "Elite: Dangerous" can no longer be delivered as Frontier decided a few days ago to require an always-on connection.

 

[piotrr]

Then with all due respect, why are you complaining so vociferously if you're not personally injured by this?

Sometimes people care about things that don't affect them personally. Call that what you like, but it scares me that you haven't heard about it before.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

That is the spin of the players who prefer online gameplay. It is not the true we are trying to trash the game, place and hurt you! That is a nonsense! With what exactly do you feel endangered? Who is attacking you like some of you have been attacking "offliners" here? What is the ratio of that? The problem is that this is not about Krait being cancelled from the ships that made into the game. Lack of gameplay mode is more serious than that and you all know this!

It is now utterly futile to ask for any empathy. You know why? Because of agressive "we still got what we wanted so shut up and get lost!" some of "online players" showed after last friday. We as the comunity never sticked together. You are not considering us as a part of this communities and fellows that also helped and contributed in bringing your precious online Elite. At first sign of problem we have divided. And that is more serious thing even than scrapping of offline solo, since that poison is now endangering to consume us all.

And as for "get your refund and shut up" the problem is majority of people obviously is denied to be refunded by FDs.

As a point. I didn't say get your refund and go. I said "If you want to ask for refund and leave, do." You have misquoted me.

How do I feel endangered? I feel like you have pushed this issue so hard that FDev now has bad press. That affected stocks. If you continue to push, maybe there will be no game. Maybe FDev will fold. Then all of us will lose out because a minority has decided to be vocal, or even take things to the next level and go legal and spoil it for the majority of us!

So yes, I am sorry that one feature you so wanted is being dropped and I'm sorry you're disappointed, but what has happened is childish. "I'm going to push and push until they do what I say." like the child that drops on the floor in the supermarket and screams because he can't have that biscuit or bar.

We are all adults and are one group of people who want to see Elite return. The division is totally in your hands and the rest of this same group of people are being punished for it.

 

[piotrr]

This thread is linked on a dozen gaming sites now, it affects the community and this community is well established and is one of the best game assets Frontier have.

That's what forces me to read it. Think about how this is affecting others.

You're still criticizing the effect, not the cause. That the effect begets new effects, like ripples on water, do not motivate a gag on those who are affected.

 

[OillyRag]

My premium box set is now a door stop. I didn't want an ornament to sit on my shelf - I wanted a game I could install for nostalgia ten years down the line.

I'm joining the dot's here a little but I would fully expect your premium box set to contain the full downloadable game that will be available on release, and if in the future you want to install it for nostalgia sake I'm pretty sure you'll be able to connect to the archived server that DB talked about in his Q & A Yesterday and play it without many issues.

For myself I have a boxed copy of the original Elite upstairs in the attic and I did get it out and have a look at it when I found out about this project, but in order to play it I downloaded a Spectrum emulator and the game image off the net rather than bother setting up my old speccy (which I still have sadly) so my point is your Premium Box set was always going to be an ornament to some degree.

keep smiling posterity is safe

 

[Juniper]

Offline was no more a promise than a number of other features that will not be in the game on launch. Unless you have no internet i really don't see why people are making such a massive deal about this. You can still play solo with background events shaped by real people as opposed to randomly scripted AI. Sounds good to me!

But not to me.

 

[Dai]

To quote from the KS Terms of Use:





A reward tier of a Physical DRM-free collector's premium boxed edition of "Elite: Dangerous" can no longer be delivered as Frontier decided a few days ago to require an always-on connection.

Read this http://www.drewwagar.com/progress-report/elite-dangerous-and-playing-offline/

Look at the bit about kickstarter, which makes it all a little more fuzzy doesn't it!

 

[Herne]

But they are saying they will archive the game servers in case that happens... just like they said there was going to be an offline mode.

Once trust has been broken, you can't just keep asking for more trust.

hardly the same is it ? They will have copies of the archive, not exactly hard to release the builds to the community should the need ever come.

Developing an entirely different back end on the other hand, is an entirely different beast. I've played and enjoyed many games without knowing or trusting any games developers. Play the game FDEV are presenting to us, or don't.

I feel genuinely sorry for the people who simply can't practically play ED because of where they live, poor or even no internet.

The opinionated crowd who object to the principal I have absolutely no time for. You can still, and probably will enjoy ED either online solo, or multiplayer, in spite of your protests

And for the guys who spend a couple of days a week away from home travelling, now you have something else to really look forward to when you get home.

Offline whether we like it or not is gone, its not coming back, time to move on

 

[nexxo]

You are blaming the damage on the reaction. The reaction is the damage. The action that caused it is where the blame lies.

I.e. don't blame people who react badly to broken trust. Blame the reason their trust was broken.

Let's blame both. No matter how big the provocation, no matter how understandable the reaction, you are still responsible for your own actions.

Frontier made an honest and sincere promise that it now realised it cannot keep. It probably underestimated what a big thing this would be to many people, and communicated it poorly. Being unprepared for the backlash it responded poorly to that as well. This is all true.

Some players meanwhile feel really disappointed and upset, and not a little cheated. They want their money back, understandably. Telling them to suck it up only feels like twisting the knife and makes them more angry. This is also true.

Both things are true at the same time: Frontier are not deceitful liars; the customers who had been expecting and wanting offline mode are not overentitled whiners. It's just one of those things. The best thing Frontier can do is just act in good faith, give people their refunds and for those who receive it to move on. Anything else is pointless drama and witch hunt.

 

[phlOgistOn]

To quote from the KS Terms of Use

Firstly, those are the new T&C's that only became active about 1 month ago

Secondly there's been no conclusive post stating that a DRM-free physical copy is mutually exclusive with online authentication. Seen something about MMO's not being affected by this as well as someone saying outright that the two could coexist with no problems - probably needs a software legal expert to let us know either way for sure... or as sure as the law ever is.

 

[OillyRag]

You're still criticizing the effect, not the cause. That the effect begets new effects, like ripples on water, do not motivate a gag on those who are affected.

I think he's suggesting we take a step back and think about how this issue is affecting the game as a whole, and I think it's good advice.

 

[-c-s-]

Does most people realize that they are basically slandering FD?
They've given an explaination and are giving refunds to those that are entitled to it per the contract we all signed by buying the game.
They're throwing accusations at FD with no proof, just crazy theorycrafting at tinfoilhat levels. Seriously, think before you post, breathe and calm down. If you've played Beta or Alpha you can CLEARLY play the game, they hav explained our computers can't run the server code (yet), but they will do snapshots regularly so in case the servers die we can have the files. They have diverted a lot of effort into an avenue that led nowhere and let us know as soon as they saw it was impossible to fulfill that promise.
I'm not WKing. Those really entitled to a refund should get it, but your KS pledge is your assumed risk. The game takes nearly no bandwith and ping in SO is irrelevant.
What I see is many people who are afraid of human interaction, and that saddens me in a game that was clearly stated as online from the get-go. It was on-line what made me pledge. I have plenty of offline games and they end up being empty and feeling lonely. Online games do not.
As I said, please, breathe and calm down. Acknowledge the risks you took, and if you really are unable/haven't played the game, make sure FD knows and you'll get your refund.
But please, for the love of all that's good and holly, don't poison this community anymore. It won't bring offline back, and only hurts the game, company and franchise that has given us all so many good times. Think before you destroy it all on a selfish impulse.

It isn't slander if it is true.

It was also stated everywhere that offline play would be supported. The game wouldn't exist right now if they wouldn't have "committed" to it as a core goal -- the Kickstarter would have failed and the project would have been cancelled.

Here are just some of things that were being said up until a few days ago:

"Elite will also work offline but you just won’t get a lot of the features. The whole point is that the world evolves due to the aggregated actions of the players." - David Braben

"I’m always concerned with games that are server-based that you can’t then play them after the publisher or whoever turns the servers off. We’ll structure it in a way that you could play it entirely locally, so it would survive time if that makes sense.” - David Braben

We plan to fund the servers off (i) the updates and (ii) people who want to buy cash. I don't think it is a high risk - and in the worst case we will structure the game so that it can be run without the servers should we eventually have to shut them down." - David Braben (missing forum link)

"I hope you'll all give the connected game a try as it is the way we want people to experiece it, but you have the option if it's not your thing." - Michael

"You can play offline without server connections and we will make sure you can play the game if we ever shut the servers down." - Michael via Kickstarter comment

"Space is big Most of the galaxy is unexplored when the game begins and there are plenty of resources to be discovered.

There will also be an offline single player mode." - Michael via reddit AMA

 

[piotrr]

It's not noble, it's entirely selfish. I want to play online open with a great community of people who have helped shape the game.

Frontier scrapped SP offline, they've lost that part of the community. Yet they are still here affecting everyone else.

Yes we are. Does that bother you? Am I making you uncomfortable for not simply abandoning the game I've been dreaming of for seventeen years?

If it's any consolation to you, I'm pretty uncomfortable myself, but being told that I should go away because my distress is distressing someone else isn't making me feel any better. Are you feeling better? Are you feeling selfless?

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

No, I explained it from my dog's perspective.

As I already said, twice, take your legitimate anger and direct it at Frontier, not the community, not me.

Stop telling people to go away from the thread where they gathered and they won't direct their annoyance at you.

 

[amigacooke]

Since you mention DRM, I presume you object to "all online" on principle. Does DB's statement that if the servers ever shut down an archive of server code and galaxy state will be released to the community ease that at all?

If not, why not?

Because when it comes to the point it may not be realistically possible.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

I think I'd like to see some numbers. How many insisted offline mode was cancelled vs how many were asked vs how many people should have been asked. I can't remember any newsletter where there was a poll on this.


With respect, FD are the ones to do the hurting, if they'd delivered what they promised, or at least communicated their intentions in a reasonable time and a reasonable manner then it would have gone differently.


But those who signed up early to like, actually enable the game to start being made cannot get refunds



If we are in a minority it should be trivial for FD to refund anyone who wants it. If that would be too much money then don't you think FD have a moral duty to listen to us? You can't have it both ways.

If you read the newsletter, it did not say feedback insisted offline mode was cancelled, it said feedback drove the features that made offline untenable.

It's this thread that is pointed to in all the bad press. Ergo - this thread has caused hurt. FDev are delivering on the whole. No-one promised that it would not evolve, and it appears that it has evolved because of feedback from backers. The vision has been driven by people who have paid to be part of that.

As stated before, I never said "Get refunds and go" I said "If you want to ask for a refund." That's another thread.

Money, money, money. Perhaps you should ask for a refund in proportion to the features being left out against the proportion of feature that are being fulfilled. That's what 1 feature out of how many? No. You want to grab back all your money to punish FDev for not listening to you and so ruining the game for everyone else. It's a pressure tactic and one that could end up trashing the game for everyone.

 

[jamotide]

I feel cheated by FD and David. I only backed this only after they announced it would be DRM free. That they now don't want to refund is a huge disappointment.

 

[Seonid]

It isn't slander if it is true.

It's also not slander if it's written, it would be libel.

 

[Vlodec]

I'm joining the dot's here a little but I would fully expect your premium box set to contain the full downloadable game that will be available on release, and if in the future you want to install it for nostalgia sake I'm pretty sure you'll be able to connect to the archived server that DB talked about in his Q & A Yesterday and play it without many issues.

Why are you, and others, so confident about this "archived server" idea? To me DB's statement on that sounded like a throwaway promise just to keep the unruly mob docile.

There are too many holes......

Does he really mean it?
Should it all end how much control will he have over what happens next?
Who will he give the archive to?
What guarantee do we have that they'll support it as we'd like?

Do you see what I mean?

 

[jabokai]

Read this http://www.drewwagar.com/progress-report/elite-dangerous-and-playing-offline/

Look at the bit about kickstarter, which makes it all a little more fuzzy doesn't it!

That bit is isolated deliberately to back up his point, same as the person you've quoted has done, same as I have done when I've quoted KS FAQs. And, actually, the bit Drew quoted is immediately preceded and followed by the two sections I have most quoted -

What is a creator obligated to do once their project is funded?

When a project is successfully funded, the creator is responsible for completing the project and fulfilling each reward. Their fundamental obligation to backers is to finish all the work that was promised. Once a creator has done so, they’ve fulfilled their obligation to their backers."

... Drew's quoted text here...

"If a creator is absolutely unable to complete the project and fulfill rewards, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to a satisfying conclusion for their backers."