No Single Player offline Mode then?

Robert Maynard · Nov 19, 2014

jamotide said:
That would not be DRM free.

Therefore the lack of DRM mentioned in the "Physical DRM-free boxed set" must then be relating to the lack of DRM on the disc in the box rather than the lack of the need to authenticate with an online account / server as it goes on to specifically mention the online account.

jamotide · Nov 19, 2014

Aldric said:
I do consider us all to be in the same community as in wanting the game to come out, but those that pledged JUST for pure offline would not be in the community anyway on game launch, they would be closed off in their own world, is that what you consider being part of the community as in seeing each other in space and saying hi ?

Nope, being part of the community is talking about the game in this forum.

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Robert Maynard said:
Therefore the lack of DRM mentioned in the "Physical DRM-free boxed set" must then be relating to the lack of DRM on the disc in the box rather than the lack of the need to authenticate with an online account / server as it goes on to specifically mention the online account.

No, the online account is just optional. It would devalue the package if it would be offline only. That is why they mentioned it.

CMDR Sheehy · Nov 19, 2014

DaveS1 said:
How is asking for the return of money that was given in response to a now reneged promise "ransom"?

Me: Hello shopkeeper, do you have any SuperChoco Bars for sale?
Shopkeeper: why yes, would you like one?
Me, yes please.
S: £1 please
Me: here you go.
...
...
...
Me: can I have my bar please?
S: I'm sorry, we have decided we don't do bars anymore, have a pet cat instead.
Me: But I am allergic to cats and I am not allowed pets in my flat
S: Well, you should have thought about the risks before asking for a chocolate bar.
Me: Well, just give me my cash back and I'll be on my way.
S: Help! Help! I'm being held to ransom by a bad man who wants everyone in the world to have their pet cats put to sleep

So you're saying the difference between Elite Dangerous being delivered and what you pledged for is as different as a cat is from a chocolate bar. It's not. The chocolate bar is missing one ingredient. And you did not walk in to a shop and buy something that was available off the shelf. It was clear that things would change. They have, you're not happy with the change.

What do you do with that? Bad mouth the developer! Getting on their wrong side is really going to convince them to listen to you. Ever heard of Game Theory? In adversarial games neither side wins. So all the talk about 'let's force FDev to change their mind' is self defeating. Should I join you? I first have to believe in what you say in that you have been "Cheated" somehow. I have yet to be convinced that is the case. Disappointed, yes. Cheated, no.

Zuikaku · Nov 19, 2014

Aldric said:
I do consider us all to be in the same community as in wanting the game to come out, but those that pledged JUST for pure offline would not be in the community anyway on game launch, they would be closed off in their own world, is that what you consider being part of the community ?

And they have every right to do so. Why would someone who plays offline ,supports the same game and is giving FDs feedback and free promotion among it's friends would not be a part of comunity? Please explain that? That reminds me of Jonathan Smith's Guliver novel where dwarves were waging war over the way the eggs shoul'd be served.

Uridium · Nov 19, 2014

mbpoblet said:
Braben gave an answer to my comment on modding that might give a worrying indication of his mindset:

(Emphasis mine.)

His concern about "branching" (and let's remember that we offliners expected precisely such a "branch") seems to indicate, to me, that he intends to keep all the community together, under Frontier's control (good job they're doing of that, too, excuse the irony).

This also makes me concerned for the solo and private modes, but the important thing to consider here is why he sees "branch prevention" as such an important concern.

Food for thought, anyway.

Go to any game modding site and you will see a huge amount of "Nude Chicks Mod" or "Big Mellons Mod" or "God Mode Cheats Mod".... are you really surprised that David was worried about allowing modding.

Juniper · Nov 19, 2014

Uridium said:
OMG... You GAVE money to support FDev's vision of Elite. Remember all those "We are making the game WE want to make" quotes that we all loved.

Unfortunately an Offline static insipid game was deemed not good enough to go with their vision.

They should have asked the backers that.

"Hello, I'm hoping to start selling bananas - would you like one?"

"Yes please! Here is my money!"

"Ok thank you... hang on... sorry, we've found we don't like bananas very much. We're going to give you this grape instead - isn't that wonderful! And this picture of my neighbour's cat eating a bird!"

"Erm, but I just wanted a banana... I don't actually like grapes... and the cat...ermm.... eww?"

"But grapes are better! Stop moaning! It's still fruit! What's wrong with you!?"

Angus · Nov 19, 2014

Joe Spivey said:
Nobody is gloating and who's telling anyone to 'suck it up'? All I've been saying is that it is decision time. Either get back on board with the game development as it now is or... well, have the courage of your convictions and leave -

A difference which makes no difference, is no difference. You're saying "suck it up." Nice attitude.

jamotide · Nov 19, 2014

Uridium said:
Go to any game modding site and you will see a huge amount of "Nude Chicks Mod" or "Big Mellons Mod" or "God Mode Cheats Mod".... are you really surprised that David was worried about allowing modding.

So that is why repeatedly said he would like to see mods. There is even a kickstarter FAQ entry for that.

Aldric · Nov 19, 2014

jamotide said:
Nope, being part of the community is talking about the game in this forum.

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No, the online account is just optional. It would devalue the package if it would be offline only. That is why they mentioned it.

We are doing it right now, so what is your point lol ? i mean we are all talking about the game now so we are all in the community, glad we got that sorted.

jamotide · Nov 19, 2014

Aldric said:
We are doing it right now, so what is your point lol ? i mean we are all talking about the game now so we are all in the community, glad we got that sorted.

Yes that was my point. Good work, you got it.

Robert Maynard · Nov 19, 2014

jamotide said:
No, the online account is just optional. It would devalue the package if it would be offline only. That is why they mentioned it.

At the time of creating the boxed set pledge tier and DRM FAQ answer there was no offline game. Therefore the game is online, therefore not DRM free as it would require an online connection to play online.

Jays · Nov 19, 2014

Aldric said:
I do consider us all to be in the same community as in wanting the game to come out, but those that pledged JUST for pure offline would not be in the community anyway on game launch if FD where able to bring pure offline mode, they would be closed off in their own world, is that what you consider being part of the community ? an ingame community is a different thing seeing other people and interacting with them.

You mean just like there has not been a vibrant community around the X universe games for a decade or so... oh wait, that's completely wrong.

Uridium · Nov 19, 2014

Juniper said:
They should have asked the backers that.

"Hello, I'm selling bananas - would you like one?"

"Yes please! Here is my money!"

"Ok thank you... hang on... sorry, we've found we don't like bananas very much. We're going to give you this grape instead - isn't that wonderful! And this picture of my neighbour's cat eating a bird!"

"Erm, but I just wanted a banana... I don't actually like grapes..."

"But grapes are better! Stop moaning! It's still fruit! What's wrong with you!?"

Can you show me the pledge box that said "you will receive a full Offline game"

And I really am interested, because i missed out on Kickstarter (i came in at Prem-Beta)

Aldric · Nov 19, 2014

Zuikaku said:
And they have every right to do so. Why would someone who plays offline ,supports the same game and is giving FDs feedback and free promotion among it's friends would not be a part of comunity? Please explain that? That reminds me of Jonathan Smith's Guliver novel where dwarves were waging war over the way the eggs shoul'd be served.

Show me where i said they did not "have every right to do so" ? sheesh.........

jamotide · Nov 19, 2014

Robert Maynard said:
At the time of creating the boxed set pledge tier and DRM FAQ answer there was no offline game. Therefore the game is online, therefore not DRM free as it would require an online connection to play online.

So you are saying they lied right from the start?

Zuikaku · Nov 19, 2014

Aldric said:
Show me where i said they did not "have every right to do so" ? sheesh.........

You have stated that those who are not playing online are not part of comunity anyway. since they play alone and isolated from everyone At least I undertood it that way. Sorry if I was wrong!

Robert Maynard · Nov 19, 2014

jamotide said:
So you are saying they lied right from the start?

Not at all - I am saying that I think that those who read "Physical DRM-free boxed set" and ignored the bit about the need to use the online account assumed something that Frontier were not offering.

Mecha · Nov 19, 2014

jamotide said:
What part of DRM free dont you get?

It seems that it is you that doesn't understand what "DRM free" means.

The software client I am currently writing is DRM free. I have a number of options to add DRM, from USB dongles, to signed files - it has none of these, therefore it is DRM free. Anybody can copy it and install it on a computer.

It does however need to talk to my server to be able to function. This isn't DRM.

This is DRM:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management

A copy of Filezilla doesn't have DRM. It is however useless unless you have a FTP server to connect to.

What part of DRM do YOU not understand?

jamotide · Nov 19, 2014

Uridium said:
Can you show me the pledge box that said "you will receive a full Offline game"

And I really am interested, because i missed out on Kickstarter (i came in at Prem-Beta)

It does not, it says DRM free which can be, but must not be offline, if they gave us our own server software. They could, but them choosing not to do that AND not refunding the money is clear violation of KS terms paragraph 4.

Juniper · Nov 19, 2014

Uridium said:
Can you show me the pledge box that said "you will receive a full Offline game"

And I really am interested, because i missed out on Kickstarter (i came in at Prem-Beta)

From the FAQ:

How will single player work? Will I need to connect to a server to play?

The galaxy for Elite: Dangerous is a shared universe maintained by a central server. All of the meta data for the galaxy is shared between players. This includes the galaxy itself as well as transient information like economies. The aim here is that a player's actions will influence the development of the galaxy, without necessarily having to play multiplayer.

The other important aspect for us is that we can seed the galaxy with events, often these events will be triggered by player actions. With a living breathing galaxy players can discover new and interesting things long after they have started playing.

Update! The above is the intended single player experience. However it will be possible to have a single player game without connecting to the galaxy server. You won't get the features of the evolving galaxy (although we will investigate minimising those differences) and you probably won't be able to sync between server and non-server (again we'll investigate).

Last updated: Tue, Dec 11 2012 9:56 AM +00:00

Pledges can't (or couldn't at the time) be updated once someone had pledged on them. It wasn't a separate pledge anyway, it was part of the game that Frontier were supposed to deliver.