Not impressed with the Python MKII

[Pville_Piper]

I bought this originally to do AX work and with 6 utility slots it seemed like this was going to be great. One of my favorite game loops is to go to combat aftermaths and pickup escape pods and then to fight the hunter class goids. The FAS and Krait MKII are really good for this, but a shield less Python 2 isn't. Oh, it has great DPS... But not much staying power because it can't stack armor so with one good fight it's getting low and time to exit the area. Whereas the KMK2 and the FAS can stay in system and fill their holds and still have enough left over to fight their way home.

Ok, after I joined the blue haired wench, I decided to dust off the PMK2, do a shield centric build... While the staying power and the DPS is very good, that power distro is a joke. I have it grade 5 charge enhanced with super conduits and the capacitors drain so fast that I can't boost turn to stay on target or have enough weapons capacity left to continue firing. I'm using a G3 long range beam (G5) with thermal vent, a G3 scramble spectrum efficient pulse (G4) and the rest are multis... Against as higher-level NPCs it takes forever to kill them as the capacitor runs low just as I'm getting good target time. I will need to rework my combat style to accommodate the PMK2 and possibly get rid of the pulse laser.

Honestly, it feels like this ship was gimped too heavily and is virtuously worthless unless you are really good with high DPS fixed weapons. The lack of internals and the undersized distro make this a very limited ship. I'll work with it some more, but it really feels weak.

 

[Dragsham]

Redo the distro for weps?
Idk I ain't a goid basher but I'm sure someone will Come along shortly

 

[Rat Catcher]

Idk I ain't a goid basher but I'm sure someone will Come along shortly

I used a P2 on the last titan, it did the job. Quite a few from the groups I'm in like the P2 for Titan bombing runs, so it must be half-reasonable
I also use the P2 for combat, and it isn't poor for that either.

It does need consideration how to outfit though, Having the same PP & Distro size as the FDL doesn't feel too limited to me...

 

[Rock Hunter]

I use one with double shield cell banks (old school!) and the Sirius x4 HS launcher which allows me to be a little less ‘on it’ with the pips, but it’s a PvE specific build and not intended for Thargoid combat (of which I know nothing.)

Like Rat Catcher, I saw plenty in Open doing Titan bombing runs…maybe even more than Kraits and Mambas.

 

[Kira Goto]

Having the same PP & Distro size as the FDL doesn't feel too limited to me...

I’d say that is the one thing which is keeping it in line from making it a mindless “Why even bother with an FDL unless you like the ship*” deal/‘choice’ (for lack of better wording).

Even though I still see some people (not necessarily here) claiming it “needs” size 7 powerplant/distributor in complete disregard of what game balance means. Or needing to be mindful of what you put into a build/working around the downsides of one. Considering how popular the ship appears to be, I feel that there is some exaggeration involved from that side (not that I am accusing OP of this, to be perfectly clear)… what a surprise for the internet, I know.

*Yes, the FDL (seemingly) gets better or identical shield figures to a PMKII which uses a size 6 prismatic and identical shield booster layout, compared to the FDL’s size 5, but I still think the “Python” which is more like version 2 of the other ship here, is borderline obscene.

 

[Rat Catcher]

it “needs” size 7 powerplant/distributor

Oooo... It does, it really does...

Although that would encourage some very lazy builds...

 

[Kira Goto]

Oooo... It does, it really does...

Although that would encourage some very lazy builds...

It would. Probably. The context I saw (was a post on Inara’s game talk forum) was someone complaining they couldn’t slap a long range C4 beam laser (in all caps) on the ship alongside 4 modified [Guardian] plasma chargers on an FDL without making some sacrifices to the ship’s shielding, making it “inadequate for CZs”. While calling its C2 hardpoints peashooters in complete ignorance of plasma accelerators, or other weapons which work well in them.

Then they went on to compare it and the PMKII to the Krait MKII which apparently is a so much better (or at all “viable”) PvE combat ship all because it has size 7 core internals in some places. No consideration that it’s (slightly) slower and significantly less maneuverable than the other two. Or not even a dedicated combat ship.

Needless to say, I disagreed, providing a lecture on the fact that plasma accelerators exist and that the words ‘game balance’ also still exist. Then I might have gone down the rabbit hole of my own disagreements on the PMKII’s performance, which are certainly not down to the two things keeping it in check. But I won’t drag the thread further into my own ramblings…

 

[Elpapo]

For AX, its medicore at best (yet it does have own litte niche at AX), but for regular PVE and PVP, P2 is very good ship, and it does compete with FDL quite well.

P2 amount of its hardpoints is both blessing and curse for that ship and its given distro size. Wich of, depend on loadout itself.

It more than amazing for mixed loadouts, where combination of missiles with fixed or gimballed works preety well (any mix of that), and it does not diminsh its combat potential, with clever loadouts... FDL on other hand, does not really is capable to utilize mixed loadouts to such degree.

For non-mixed setups, not as good (with some exceptions). Apart of frags or cannons setups (wich are low-draw by default), stacking more than 2 or 3 of same weapon types, especially if sized 3, easly causes to bottleneck its WEP, and kinda forces to think outside of box a litte to find right setup, for given task.

Despite of all of that, its still my favorite medium ship for PVP and PVE right now. I am thinkin to bulid 4th one, just to not need swap weapon loadouts as often, between P2's.

 

[Mr Lindsay]

I haven't done a non-AX build with the Python Mk2 yet, as I'm using one lightly-shielded cold build for both Titans and Orthurus at the moment with 4 large Guardian Shards. Bit of a pain for power management trying to keep it cold, but much more so on the Power Plant side than the Distro side.

I do plan to switch it over to PvE to replace my FDL when the war is over, so have theory-crafted it a bit. If you want to be able to fire everything at once, you're going to want to G5 Efficient most/every weapon on it. You mention that you feel forced to use fixed weapons, but funnily enough one of my possible builds was mostly turreted, due to the reduced energy-per-second costs associated with them, and on paper would put out more DPS than my FDL. Haven't tried it out yet, but there's plenty of potential there with all those weapon slots to work with.

 

[Pville_Piper]

Redo the distro for weps?
Idk I ain't a goid basher but I'm sure someone will Come along shortly

The issue fighting the goids, and hunters in particular, is that because of the Glaives lightning attacks, using a shield id problematic and the lack of module space makes hull tanking impossible. Redoing the distro for weapons would likely cripple the engines.

I used a P2 on the last titan, it did the job. Quite a few from the groups I'm in like the P2 for Titan bombing runs, so it must be half-reasonable
I also use the P2 for combat, and it isn't poor for that either.

It does need consideration how to outfit though, Having the same PP & Distro size as the FDL doesn't feel too limited to me...

As a Titan bomber, it may well work... But against Glaives, particularly multiple glaives, you are a at decided dis-advantage, hull tanking is a must.

I’d say that is the one thing which is keeping it in line from making it a mindless “Why even bother with an FDL unless you like the ship*” deal/‘choice’ (for lack of better wording).

Even though I still see some people (not necessarily here) claiming it “needs” size 7 powerplant/distributor in complete disregard of what game balance means. Or needing to be mindful of what you put into a build/working around the downsides of one. Considering how popular the ship appears to be, I feel that there is some exaggeration involved from that side (not that I am accusing OP of this, to be perfectly clear)… what a surprise for the internet, I know.

*Yes, the FDL (seemingly) gets better or identical shield figures to a PMKII which uses a size 6 prismatic and identical shield booster layout, compared to the FDL’s size 5, but I still think the “Python” which is more like version 2 of the other ship here, is borderline obscene.

I get that, game balance is important, it really doesn't need a bigger power plant IMHO, mine is way over the top and it's only a g4 overcharged with thermal spread, which I might change because I have plenty of power.

So, I just took it back out, moved the pulse to the same firing group as the multi cannons and that helped. One thing that was vexing me last night was the lack of targets in a Res zone and nothing spawning in the signal sources worth wasting my time, so it was hard to work on the process of fighting the ship. Today, that changed significantly... Plenty of spawns. One thing that vexed me last night was the really slow acceleration response of the engines when not boosted. Recovering from a reverski was painfully slow and the latera/vertical thrusters took some getting used to as the lag in movement through me off. Judicious application of FA Off really helped to remedy this issue and I quickly got used to working that, along with boosting, I could stay on the target much better. My opening attack run is typically to hit the ship at long range with the beam as soon as the scan shows it's wanted, and close to below 2 km and open up with everything. FA Off and boost at the merge, the slight pause in firing as I require the target helps recover the weapons capacitor, and a single boost to swing the nose on fast moving targets keeps the engine capacitor from depleting. This gives me an on-target time that quickly erodes the shields of the enemy ship.

So, it looks like adjusting my combat style and playing to the ships strengths a bit more and working around the weaknesses was a winning combination. I turned in a pretty good performance with it and, once you get the shields down, it really strips the ship down quickly and my shields never got below 95% so I will likely drop the module and hull reinforcements and maybe gain a bit of performance.

 

[tolm]

I was also disappointed by the lack of hull integrity possible on the Python MkII for AX stuff: I can get close to 5k on both the FAS and Krait for station CZs whereas the PII is under 3k max, I think? A great shame as - with the 6 utilities - it is a fantastic AX weapon platform.

But for PvE non-AX combat? I think it’s great! I run BiWeaves and lots of boosters alongside 2x C3 Efficient Beams, 2x C3 Overcharged MCs and 2x C2 LR/High-Cap Rails and it’s absolutely brutal in a HazRES - even with my limited skills!!

 

[Pville_Piper]

I was also disappointed by the lack of hull integrity possible on the Python MkII for AX stuff: I can get close to 5k on both the FAS and Krait for station CZs whereas the PII is under 3k max, I think? A great shame as - with the 6 utilities - it is a fantastic AX weapon platform.

But for PvE non-AX combat? I think it’s great! I run BiWeaves and lots of boosters alongside 2x C3 Efficient Beams, 2x C3 Overcharged MCs and 2x C2 LR/High-Cap Rails and it’s absolutely brutal in a HazRES - even with my limited skills!!

When rescuing life pods you need cargo and limpets so getting to any real hull integrity is impossible and the hunters wears you down quick without it. Close to my setup, but without the rails... Once the shields come sown it drains the life out of the hull super quick. I'm thinking of changing out the hull reinforcements to cargo and picking up life pods for extra merits and, lets face it, it will attack pirates like flies on Biowaste!

 

[Elpapo]

One thing that vexed me last night was the really slow acceleration response of the engines when not boosted. Recovering from a reverski was painfully slow and the latera/vertical thrusters took some getting used to as the lag in movement through me off. Judicious application of FA Off really helped to remedy this issue and I quickly got used to working that, along with boosting, I could stay on the target much better.

In that regard, P2 requires bit more time on 4 pips at ENG, in order to not be stalled like that. But during perma-boosting it acts almost same as FDL does, but in end its all down to getting used to it.

My opening attack run is typically to hit the ship at long range with the beam as soon as the scan shows it's wanted, and close to below 2 km and open up with everything. FA Off and boost at the merge, the slight pause in firing as I require the target helps recover the weapons capacitor, and a single boost to swing the nose on fast moving targets keeps the engine capacitor from depleting. This gives me an on-target time that quickly erodes the shields of the enemy ship.

One of best PVE all-rounder setups I found that work in any RES or CZ's (or even assasinations), is 3 rail, dual beam with single seeker. A bulid that have best of all 3 types, fixed gimballed and explosives, wich work in any range, both long and close range, and does it not suffer with distro at all.


3 rails are all long range plasma slugs - these acts for long range alpha attacks, high dmg per shot, and distro surely can handle 3 these with no problems. It also works up-close, when chaff is used by target, well as too have very good tool to deal with running targets, and taking drives or planting... Top middle C3 is undersized with one of these rails, to have best possible coverage for fixed, and of course provide attack range of 6km. An extended fuel tank is desirable with extra 16t, it should last for about 300 salvos before fuel ran out.

2x c3 efficent gimballed beams with TV,(most left/right c3 hardpoints) acts as close range hitscan weapons that can cooldown ship a bit (if rails are often used in combo with it), that both is used to deal with smaller craft that is tricky to kill with rails, and during time where rails are not yet aimed at target, providing higher possible fire arc compared to fully fixed setups, wich results better overall ToT. With 4 pips at WEP, these can fire infinitely (or quite long with 0-3-3), and its still decent dps from these alone (like beam vulture but better), and of course, beams works very well with dealing sub-targetes modules on target on its own (plants, drives or FSD, while taking sweet time to aim with rails).

Lastly, the c3 high cap emmisive seeker mounted underside cockpit. Thats 84 seekers in total, so it lasts for quite while, before synth is needed. Seekers are used to "light up" with emmsive's so beams will always have full cone of fire and of course seeker itself wont be having otherwise problems with lock-on, even if heat sinks are being spamed by target. Other usage is to remove target weapons, utility such as chaff, and of course drives to make target immobile, to easier finishing off, with rest of beams and rails. Litte cool side effect of having it along is that it will act as effective deter for most of shieldess cmdrs, since single seeker like that is enough of hard counter vs nonshielded (relevant only in open obviously)

So, it looks like adjusting my combat style and playing to the ships strengths a bit more and working around the weaknesses was a winning combination. I turned in a pretty good performance with it and, once you get the shields down, it really strips the ship down quickly and my shields never got below 95% so I will likely drop the module and hull reinforcements and maybe gain a bit of performance.

P2 is very good hybrid platform, where is can still have decent hull, and fully take advantage of fast regen biwaves with high resists, even with loadout mentioned above, and still having armoured plant for better plant protection and better thermal handling.

 

[Morbad]

Redo the distro for weps?

Weapon focused distro is barely better than the charge enhanced one for weapons and dramatically limits mobility.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

The powerplant and distributor definitely limit the P2 in some regards. On the P1 and the Kraits you can G5 low emission the plant for cold running and still basically fit everything you want. Try that with the P2, and you will be severely limited. The distributors locks it into mostly kinetic weapons, no 4x plasma and 2x rail build.

 

[DemiserofD]

Have you considered using fixed cannons? Large fixed cannons compare very favorably with medium plasma accelerators.

 

[CMDR Snailman]

I'm a simple man, so my PvE P2 "Donnerfaust" has a pure gimballed Frag Cannon loadout for maximum "in your face!" effect. It absolutely smashes any opposition in HAZ, assassination missions and low CZ (haven't tried higher CZ yet)

 

[Mohrgan]

I love the P2 for combat. It's what the Mamba/FdL couldn't be for me. Prior to the P2 I used the aChief for fighting.

For the P2 I use Charge Enhanced on the Dist. Along with a balanced array of Pulse lasers ( g4 Eff ) and Cannon ( g5 OverC ). This puts a stop to pirate shenanigans right quick. With patience and trigger control, the P2 can conserve cannon shots for extended visits to HRes/CZs. I can keep the Pulse fire going all but constantly, while the low draw of the cannon still allows me to take those PP shots as they come up.

We might not be able to support the layout a K2 can, but that is a poor measure of the P2's combat capabilities.

 

[Koma Pahu]

As a titan bomber she’s great but, for me anyway, there’s better ships for almost every other situation.

 

[Pville_Piper]

In that regard, P2 requires bit more time on 4 pips at ENG, in order to not be stalled like that. But during perma-boosting it acts almost same as FDL does, but in end its all down to getting used to it.



One of best PVE all-rounder setups I found that work in any RES or CZ's (or even assasinations), is 3 rail, dual beam with single seeker. A bulid that have best of all 3 types, fixed gimballed and explosives, wich work in any range, both long and close range, and does it not suffer with distro at all.


3 rails are all long range plasma slugs - these acts for long range alpha attacks, high dmg per shot, and distro surely can handle 3 these with no problems. It also works up-close, when chaff is used by target, well as too have very good tool to deal with running targets, and taking drives or planting... Top middle C3 is undersized with one of these rails, to have best possible coverage for fixed, and of course provide attack range of 6km. An extended fuel tank is desirable with extra 16t, it should last for about 300 salvos before fuel ran out.

2x c3 efficent gimballed beams with TV,(most left/right c3 hardpoints) acts as close range hitscan weapons that can cooldown ship a bit (if rails are often used in combo with it), that both is used to deal with smaller craft that is tricky to kill with rails, and during time where rails are not yet aimed at target, providing higher possible fire arc compared to fully fixed setups, wich results better overall ToT. With 4 pips at WEP, these can fire infinitely (or quite long with 0-3-3), and its still decent dps from these alone (like beam vulture but better), and of course, beams works very well with dealing sub-targetes modules on target on its own (plants, drives or FSD, while taking sweet time to aim with rails).

Lastly, the c3 high cap emmisive seeker mounted underside cockpit. Thats 84 seekers in total, so it lasts for quite while, before synth is needed. Seekers are used to "light up" with emmsive's so beams will always have full cone of fire and of course seeker itself wont be having otherwise problems with lock-on, even if heat sinks are being spamed by target. Other usage is to remove target weapons, utility such as chaff, and of course drives to make target immobile, to easier finishing off, with rest of beams and rails. Litte cool side effect of having it along is that it will act as effective deter for most of shieldess cmdrs, since single seeker like that is enough of hard counter vs nonshielded (relevant only in open obviously)



P2 is very good hybrid platform, where is can still have decent hull, and fully take advantage of fast regen biwaves with high resists, even with loadout mentioned above, and still having armoured plant for better plant protection and better thermal handling.

I might give rails a go again... But I usually suck at them. I just wish you could have a third trigger, I hate messing around with fire groups all the time which a pain if you have a lot of mixed weapons.

One thing I noticed about the PMK2 is that pitching up and reversing thrust really whips the nose around. On other ships it does help but the turn rate boost you get from it really drops off fast, not with the PMK2, by the time the drop off of the turning rate hits you are on target and firing.

I would also be great if, like jets, you had stages of Afterburner/boost instead of all or nothing. For that matter, envision the SCO boost with stages that allows you to boost at a lower rate with more controlled deceleration. I'm really loving running, missions with the Mandy and the PMK2, getting to areas or boosting through gravity wells has really been a boon to the game and makes the game less tedious and more fun just getting to where you're going.