Nothing new, but this Odyssey VR implementation is beyond frustrating

[moogleslam]

I think this post is thoughtful and not terrible with the exception of the use of the term Pancake Mode. The full gaming market far outweighs the petty language of an absolutely tiny minority, and chuckles at it probably, but certainly takes the entire conversation less seriously when it arises.

Uh, you catch more flies with honey - and the right flies too as opposed to obnoxiously buzzing flies that will bite you as soon as look at one of your products; absolutely nobody wants to deal with a crowd like that.

Pancake mode is in no way a derogatory. I'm obsessed with monitors, and am currently rocking a 34" 21:9, but the fact remains that it's a pancake in the sense that it's flat with no depth stereoscopic depth compared to VR. Just two difference experiences, both with pros and cons. Pancake mode is just a fun play on words, and I'm in no way hating on anyone that is running this game on a monitor only. I have plenty games that I only run on a monitor, and would never consider playing some in VR.

The fact remains that for a VR player, Odyssey is an immersion breaking mess with no perfect solution available at the moment.

 

[aXeL]

There's 'Option 4' which, I presume is not just me. I never go on foot for anything ever. I backed ED to fly space ships... in space. I think I used an SRV once in EDO and quickly decided, for me, gathering raws is less hassle in EDH. If I want to run around on foot doing stuff, even SkyrimVR has much more to do.

I suspect I'm not the only one who bought ED just for space.

 

[Rocksteady2090]

I love being quoted, and since you've tapped me on the shoulder I'll try and help.

I won't comment to your taste in food or the quality of that taste, or to the demands or discreet standards you place on the service of food to your person (in this case service of a very elaborate dish prepared by hundreds and priced somewhere around £24.99), and I certainly won't fault your argument that you haven't gotten what you imagine you ordered, or what you expected as a customer wholly interested in a very labor intensive confection associated with the main course and offered at no charge.

There is a solution though, happily, and I'll serve it to you freely like a small mint on a plastic bill tray:



Anyway, it's no business of mine what you do with your time, but it seems it could be better spent learning how to implement VR and VR expansions into an existing release. Perhaps it would make you happier with having something on the plate, you know, as opposed to having absolutely nothing.

I have no choice but to go with option 4 .. I tried EDO in VR again and just stuck with ships and SRV's but after 12 updates EDO VR is still very bad.. Me and my friend picked an exterminate mission for EDO got out in our scorpions and during combat FPS is down to 30 and He was getting around 45fps (he has a better rig too 10900k and 3090 - I have a 10700k and 3080) My point is I have little to any hope that Fdev will get VR working to the level they promised which is ship and SRV as we had before. They only have one update left that has optimization and unless update 13 will be the biggest out of the 12 so far.

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

There's 'Option 4' which, I presume is not just me. I never go on foot for anything ever. I backed ED to fly space ships... in space. I think I used an SRV once in EDO and quickly decided, for me, gathering raws is less hassle in EDH. If I want to run around on foot doing stuff, even SkyrimVR has much more to do.

I suspect I'm not the only one who bought ED just for space.

Yeah well, I wanted the experience to expand. Remember, the vastness of the ED galaxy is just an Illusion and all you’re really doing is the same repetitive thing all the time.

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

Pancake mode is in no way a derogatory. I'm obsessed with monitors, and am currently rocking a 34" 21:9, but the fact remains that it's a pancake in the sense that it's flat with no depth stereoscopic depth compared to VR. Just two difference experiences, both with pros and cons. Pancake mode is just a fun play on words, and I'm in no way hating on anyone that is running this game on a monitor only. I have plenty games that I only run on a monitor, and would never consider playing some in VR.

The fact remains that for a VR player, Odyssey is an immersion breaking mess with no perfect solution available at the moment.

I do find the choice to run monitors pretty odd given how much better VR is. A monitor is just a wittle pancake pixie window.

 

[aXeL]

I'm derogatory toward pancake gaming on monitors and have been ever since I started with my pimax 4k in 2017. VR ruined monitors for me and before that I was playing Skyrim and X3 on 3x27" 3D Vision 2.0 surround screens ( which worked brilliantly for me ). If someone touts pancake on a VR forum and gets bent out of shape when the VR forum derides pancake mode, as I do, then why are they plugging it on a VR forum? Trolling?

Pancake mode for first person is stupid and I am 100% entitled to express my view as such, in particular on a VR Forum. It's the reason I can't play X4 despite trying to get into it on four separate occasions. @moogleslam you go right on. If someone gets precious about it - just point them to the 'I like pants 2D displays' forum... on alt.misc.junk.idontgivearatsbutt

Distant Carrier is absolutely entitled to his/her view on pancake but if they're going to be wokeflake about it on a VR forum then they shouldn't post it here.

 

[Distant Carrier]

Pancake mode is in no way a derogatory.

Distant Carrier is absolutely entitled to his view on pancake

the vastness of your galaxy is just an Illusion and all you’re really doing is the same repetitive thing all the time

These interactions have made a clear sheet for me, so I appreciate that. It's very easy to parse language choice where the message is also very simple. I'll settle my little, or wittle to use the acceptable child-term, account here then:

"Pancake Mode" is a derogatory term on it's face, but I am not surprised that it is so prevalent. Casual usage of a variety of thought-saving terms in the description of outside worlds is very common among those isolated within close cohorts - this is neither good nor bad, it is just a fact to remember should you interact with one. I know that the term does not appear in serious planning discussion, nor is it used among my peers. I would say it is not tolerated among my peers, but that would be disingenuous as no commentary whatsoever from certain quarters, by chance those also likely to use meaningless or colloquial terms, is tolerated at all.

Also, BigDuke6ixx I am not concerned whatsoever with what you choose to do with your time, and I do not consider the fast parsing of your commentary to be a burden - if that helps you to feel any better. I am unsure why you choose to defend your right to comment in a public forum. Do you fear that such a right is in jeopardy? It clearly is not, but then jeopardy is its own cause and justification in some pursuits, isn't it? I wish you luck in your march for whatever you will accept as personal fulfillment in this matter.

Also, AXel, whom I have no prior interaction with. The term you use to describe my behavior has no definition, and I am unable to understand your intent. I can only assume you are intending to talk to others who use such terms and have come to use it yourself based on a complicated technical mechanic which I have no interest in explaining. This is a dangerous precedent, and not dangerous in a philosophical sense, but a danger to you directly, whom I maintain a concern for as an presumably autochthonous inhabitant of the absolutely legendary (and insanely rare in aspect) planet Earth. Interestingly, meaningless terms have in the past managed to nearly completely dominate the thought and conversation of whole civilizations. This has invariably led to the death of such civilizations through very simple mechanisms, very simple indeed. Some would say comedic, but such comedy has come at a high price, and is no longer very entertaining. You may refer to me however you want, I only pray you see the irony of what I presume you consider to be a devastating attack against my person.

Well anyway, I feel these few minutes have been enough investment into the mind of this specific little gathering. May such words carry into a future of plenty. ...a plenty of something desirable I mean, but any plenty will do - and will surely arrive.

 

[aXeL]

Don't engage, don't engage. I'm going to go out on a limb here and posit that pancakes are not dangerous.

...dammit!

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

Such butt hurt over people calling a 2D image pancake mode. It's great when a living language throws up new meanings for old words though. Oh the diddumsness of it all.

Pancake mode is a very old fashioned way of playing cockpit/FPS simulations.

 

[aXeL]

Such butt hurt over people calling a 2D image pancake mode. It's great when a living language throws up new meanings for old words though. Oh the diddumsness of it all.

Pancake mode is a very old fashioned way of playing cockpit/FPS simulations.

Nice! and people who come on a VR thread & get butt hurt about 2D can be Panflakes

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

Nice! and people who come on a VR thread & get butt hurt about 2D can be Panflakes

Brilliant.

 

[Dragsham]

Wow.....
Just read this whole post.
Kk
My penny worth.
2d pancake is both old and yet still essential.
Elite in VR is niche grant you.
And those like myself who seamlessly move ship srv on foot without hmd removal are just getting on with it. I don't switch to monitor cos I can't be arsed!
I just play till my eyes hurt then go for a cuppa and a toke.
I don't think a second about the 500+Watts my pc draws, and l certainly don't meander over who's mode is best.
For me I put the headset on and I'm transported to another place.
I did try in pancake...last weekend. And l hated it. Realised I'd have to get gud all over again.
VR isn't for everyone. And not all of us are the same. No demographic. Bonkers yes. Getting elite to work in high res VR ain't easy. Costs a fortune.
Elites future won't be determined by VR lack thereof, or pancakes awesomeness to those who've not tried VR.
Elites future is squarely in the hands of its creators.
If they dropped VR I'm sure it's just a temporary thing...I hope so.

 

[aXeL]

2d pancake is both old and yet still essential.

Personally, I would disagree: I only VR FPS game and I've not done this pancake style in years. Not interested in on foot gameplay, I funded the space ships game to play space ships.

Edit: Speaking of new words, what the heck is a 'toke'

 

[Dragsham]

Smoke

 

[CMDR Is Fat]

Smoke

A very special smoke, not one for panflakes or smoflakes @aXeL

 

[FatzDomingo]

I've spent a few hours over the last two days trying out Odyssey for the first time. I realize I'm way late to the game, but that's because of this:





So first of all, the good. There's a lot of things in Odyssey that are really nice before even getting to the on-foot stuff. New interface, new textures, lighting, animations for things like engaging FSD/witch space, planetary surfaces, partial atmospheres, etc. All of that probably should have been a free update, but at the same time, I'd have been willing to pay the Odyssey price to have it for everything in the Ship and SRV that's impacted by it. There's more than I thought.

The on-foot stuff, given my limited play time of it so far, actually seems really cool in a vacuum. The graphics are a mix of nice, outdated, and functional, but I really have no issue with any of that. The new environments, weapons, tools, missions, NPC, etc., are all fascinating to me. I still have a lot to learn about how to best execute the new missions, not to mention engineering and such.

I tried the on-foot training mission that I was immediately thrown into with the virtual monitor in my VR headset. It probably worked a little better than I expected, but was far from ideal, and a huge immersion breaker, not to mention if I was forced into pancake mode in VR, I might as well play pancake mode on my monitor for the better resolution. I had to find a solution. And the problem arrives because there is no solution for VR players.

• Option 1: Play pancake mode for everything.
• Option 2: Proper VR for ship/SRV, and virtual monitor VR for on-foot.
• Option 3: Restart the game each time I need to switch between ship/SRV and on-foot.

If you're a monitor only player, and Option 1 is the only way you'd play it anyway, I'm sure everything is great. I'm almost jealous of that experience.

But for a VR player, which I am, and which is the main thing that makes ED so great for me, I can't even decide what is worse, Option 2 or 3. They're both completely garbage, and leave me so frustrated, I just want to get away from the game, instead of learning about all the new things that otherwise have me really excited.

How are we still here almost a year after release? VR motion controllers would be nice, but I'm sure we'd all settle for just the continuity of the VR experience while on-foot with existing input devices for now. I don't even see why this is complicated. Really, please tell me why it is? ED & Horizons are one of the best VR implementations and experiences that exist, but when you throw Odyssey into that package, it's just so utterly tarnished and frustrating. What's the roadmap for this being properly implemented, or is it just never going to happen?

Is Horizons being sidelined because it actually works in VR and Odyssey doesn’t?
Is it as simple as that?
I play in Horizons because I want to FLY. I’ve got Destiny/Halo for all the Space PvP I can handle. Trying to copy Roberts wounded Elite Dangerous perhaps fatally. If the numbers I’ve seen are correct, more people Played Horizons than Odyssey…why?

 

[moogleslam]

Is Horizons being sidelined because it actually works in VR and Odyssey doesn’t?
Is it as simple as that?
I play in Horizons because I want to FLY. I’ve got Destiny/Halo for all the Space PvP I can handle. Trying to copy Roberts wounded Elite Dangerous perhaps fatally. If the numbers I’ve seen are correct, more people Played Horizons than Odyssey…why?

Odyssey is an extension of the world I'm already in. I've always wanted to get out of my ship and walk around, and do things on foot in this same world; not in another world, not in another game. Now we have it, but the implementation is atrocious. That's why the Odyssey numbers dipped so fast.

 

[Bran Lucius]

Odyssey on foot in VR is so terrible that despite being a VR veteran and despite being able to tolerate quite a lot in exchange for a VR experience, during the on foot tutorial I had to exit out because I could barely even see what was going on. The "screen" they give you looks like its 10 feet away, and I saw no way to move it closer to my HMD. And I cant move forward because I have a computer desk in front of me, and no, I cant be troubled to go into advanced settings and move my entire playspace towards me every time I go on foot.

Its just YET ANOTHER example of a game studio that is completely tone deaf to what VR players need or want. Its like they didnt even ask a single person who is a fan of VR to test the game and tell them what they thought. This seems to happen a few times a year with VR and is why so many VR games bomb and get trashed.

I dont even want 6DOF motion controls full VR experience with real physics, nothing like that. How about give us TWO options, just TWO? The first option is to stay in pancake mode (for performance) but let us move the damned "TV" you pop up closer to us (and maybe let us change the grey background to black). The second is just let us remain in our HMD/VR when transitioning to first person, knowing there may be performance problems. We are fine using KBM. We dont care. We just want to maintain immersion. Its what makes VR in this game great afterall.

I used to land on planets then move my camera outside my ship then wander around my playspace to get a feel for what space legs in this game in VR would be like. Its really incredible. Instead of that experience, we dont just get a flat screen but the worst possible iteration of a flatscreen they could possibly conjure up. Its a joke.

 

[Raptoyd]

Smoke

I quit those nasty cigarettes over a year ago but have not quit smoking wink wink.

 

[moogleslam]

I finally got around to putting some significant time into No Man's Sky, so easy to think about what could be in Odyssey. The only key difference between the two titles would be that you probably can't have teleport travel in Odyssey, i.e. walk forward 20 feet instantaneously (although I am yet to do any multiplayer stuff in NMS, so I don't know how it handles movement around other players). Everything else... yes, it needs development time, but it would take Odyssey to the level it deserves to be at in VR. I think WMR controllers would provide enough bindings too. On mine, there's 14 individual button press options + the analog stick on each, and can probably have combo binds too. Therefore, a separate HUD like NMS has (other than what is already in the game, would not be needed).