Murder without an in-game motive should be discouraged. It's fine if it's done for profit or against legit enemies (PP, factions, etc). Without a motive it's simply a form of bullying: taking on easy targest not for the challenge, but solely to take pleasure in ruining someone else's fun. I fail to see how that contributes to the game or its community.
Notorious CMDRs should show on galmap and radar
Murder without an in-game motive should be discouraged. It's fine if it's done for profit or against legit enemies (PP, factions, etc). Without a motive it's simply a form of bullying: taking on easy targest not for the challenge, but solely to take pleasure in ruining someone else's fun. I fail to see how that contributes to the game or its community.
Thanks for your reply.
Players have agency, both against other CMDRs and NPCs. There's no safe zones.
Players will murder, whether that is annoying liners that are the best in their class, or freshly minted sidewinders on their first flight.
What I am saying is that we should accept this, but make the choices CMDRs take have consequences.
You can murder away to your heart's content, but you will never be able to dock at any non-anarchy system. You'll be hunted by bounty hunters actively, not just NPCs, but CMDRs too if you choose open.
There was a bug with NPCs for a time where they fired multi-cannons, but each shell hit with the power of a railgun (or similar, I can't remember the detail) and that's what you should be facing if you kill clean, noob ships.
Players have agency, both against other CMDRs and NPCs. There's no safe zones.
Players will murder, whether that is annoying liners that are the best in their class, or freshly minted sidewinders on their first flight.
What I am saying is that we should accept this, but make the choices CMDRs take have consequences.
You can murder away to your heart's content, but you will never be able to dock at any non-anarchy system. You'll be hunted by bounty hunters actively, not just NPCs, but CMDRs too if you choose open.
There was a bug with NPCs for a time where they fired multi-cannons, but each shell hit with the power of a railgun (or similar, I can't remember the detail) and that's what you should be facing if you kill clean, noob ships.
p2p Prohibits teaming together to police the game. This is the absolutely is the big fail of ecological self-policing in the ED universe. Compound that with modes, CLing, blocking, horrible C&P and you have zero chance of holding wanted players accountable.
Let's follow the logic of your suggestion. If we have players with large bounties visible on the open gal map, shouldn't we also have players with large value cargo loads also posted on the open gal map?
The core issue isn't really can you find the target - It really is the core instancing mechanics.
If there is a given system with 3 criminals and 40 law abiding players, if instancing permitted them to be all together, community policing would be a viable component of this game. As it stands, you're going to see those three pros facing one, two or three opponents before instancing becomes an issue. The pro pilot criminals will always have the advantage with the current model.
Let's follow the logic of your suggestion. If we have players with large bounties visible on the open gal map, shouldn't we also have players with large value cargo loads also posted on the open gal map?
The core issue isn't really can you find the target - It really is the core instancing mechanics.
If there is a given system with 3 criminals and 40 law abiding players, if instancing permitted them to be all together, community policing would be a viable component of this game. As it stands, you're going to see those three pros facing one, two or three opponents before instancing becomes an issue. The pro pilot criminals will always have the advantage with the current model.
It's still better than the current situation, in which gank wings have free reign. By the time a bunch of players get their PvP ships transferred and wing up, the gankers are long gone with no means of following them.
The fact that NPC law enforcement will literally never catch them (because anything more agile than a T9 escapes NPC interdiction and by selecting non-combatant targets the victim is killed quicker than the authorities respond) only underlines the problem.
Remember, a solution doesn't need to be perfect: if it's better than the status quo, it's worth doing.
The fact that NPC law enforcement will literally never catch them (because anything more agile than a T9 escapes NPC interdiction and by selecting non-combatant targets the victim is killed quicker than the authorities respond) only underlines the problem.
Remember, a solution doesn't need to be perfect: if it's better than the status quo, it's worth doing.
I completely agree. Those are good ideas.
Piracy and also bounty hunting in general (PvE and PvP) could use a revamp to add a bit of depth and atmosphere (just like mining and exploration have been improved).
I would like some kind of Letters of Marque piracy mechanic implemented and for Bounty Hunting a license system based on the Powerplay territories.
I submitted a more detailed proposal a long time ago.
The gameplay has to be it's own reward.
Equally you don't want to pile on too much.
I like the idea of the OP. I'm not sure I'd clutter the GalMap with notorious contacts without a good filter (probably within a limited lightyear range or it would take forever to load and/or maybe achieved by an upgrade to the KWS, or missions system) but it is also true to say having every P2P player in range on your six might warrant a "club notorious" bumper sticker (pirate bases or a marginal dial back on anonymous access).
Active P2P bounty hunting is a step change difficulty wise for perps but I still like it.
Also a +1
I have just won an award for saying something positive to another player??? OK. Tonight at Shinrata we had a ganker attacking everyone, the special police turned up, didn't have much effect, I got 2 rebuys, 1 for FDL (pve build) one for unarmed silent runner which he caught quicky and easily took me out, I was just trying to get on with the game I wanted to play......
I sent a terse"report player" to FD and had to finish MY game in solo. This attacker was using the message system to advertise his you tube channel ??? I am not very impressed, I love the game but I think FD are ruining it...the C&P sucks and they are too stupid to fix it.
The power creep in this game has left ships unbalanced....So many problems caused by dimwitted techies with no idea what they are doing.
It won't be long before formatting this crap off my SSD
PS. Keep your award and fix your stupid broken game
I sent a terse"report player" to FD and had to finish MY game in solo. This attacker was using the message system to advertise his you tube channel ??? I am not very impressed, I love the game but I think FD are ruining it...the C&P sucks and they are too stupid to fix it.
The power creep in this game has left ships unbalanced....So many problems caused by dimwitted techies with no idea what they are doing.
It won't be long before formatting this crap off my SSD
PS. Keep your award and fix your stupid broken game
I agree with one point: the game is broken. I don't mean the numerous bugs or balance issues, but basic game mechanics.
There are no incentives to be a contributing member of the community. Ganking means "open" is only open to pvp builds, unless you specifically avoid human contact. Community goals and other hot spots are no-go areas, so where's the "community" in that? NPC authorities are unable to interdict and CMDR vigilantes have no means to track the bad guys. Even if they would, out of carelessness get caught, they're only served a slap on the wrists and keep ganking.
PP and BGS are similarly broken: they do not encourage player interaction. On the contrary, the most efficient way is to go solo or PG.
To sum it up: Elite, as a multiplayer game, is hopelessly broken with no remedy in sight. In fact, it's in "sunset mode" until the next paid update. By the time it's out, even the most dedicated fans, yours truly included, will be long gone and wary of investing their trust, time and money on FD again.
There are no incentives to be a contributing member of the community. Ganking means "open" is only open to pvp builds, unless you specifically avoid human contact. Community goals and other hot spots are no-go areas, so where's the "community" in that? NPC authorities are unable to interdict and CMDR vigilantes have no means to track the bad guys. Even if they would, out of carelessness get caught, they're only served a slap on the wrists and keep ganking.
PP and BGS are similarly broken: they do not encourage player interaction. On the contrary, the most efficient way is to go solo or PG.
To sum it up: Elite, as a multiplayer game, is hopelessly broken with no remedy in sight. In fact, it's in "sunset mode" until the next paid update. By the time it's out, even the most dedicated fans, yours truly included, will be long gone and wary of investing their trust, time and money on FD again.
I purchased Elite Dangerous in February. After suffering some attempted ganks in the first week before I could afford anything or even knew how to play, I switched to Solo. It makes sense to switch back to Open only after you have SO much money that losing a giant amount of ship insurance is no big deal. I could easily go back to open right now with a cheap ship, like a Cobra, but it'd sting to lose my Federal Corvette to a gank wing... and what's the point? I haven't met people to wing-up with, and I can earn massive money completing wing-missions by myself.
Those who want to gank everyone and talk about it being an important part of the game have the advantage of going into OPEN with:
1 - Years and years of practice
2 - The best possible combat build/wing they could manage
3 - They may/do go against builds designed for other things, that could never fight off or escape an engineered PvP situation. Even if you make a mining ship that can handle low level combat, you're not going to be min/maxed like someone who has only designed their ship to kill you.
You could have a game where everyone is forced into open if the penalties for being a were more severe. As it sits now, the penalty for someone costing me 24,000,000 in rebuy is the same as when I accidentally shoot an NPC civilian who later dies. Notoriety is a pain in the butt, but it's the same for accidentally scraping a system authority vessel who later dies from another attack as it is to purposely wait near a burning station and kill everyone who comes out.
As you said...
A - Notoriety for killing players should be different somehow, perhaps based on the player's ranks and the value of the ship destroyed.
B - Warnings could exist about where those notorious pirates are located (as you said).
C - Perhaps incentives or areas or awards could exist for players that are specifically dangerous and worth doing... so those who want to PvP or those who would risk PvP for a bigger reward... could sort of have their hot spots.
What if some kind of "open only" PowerPlay incentive was tied to anarchy systems?
What if certain systems were only available by "open" System Permit... perhaps a pristine ring system... things like that.
They could pinpoint or update "pristine anarchy systems" between PowerPlay capitals and put some kind of activity... like...
"Each power races to mine the most X in <System Open Only>... conflict zones are breaking out all through the system. This boom rush is occurring in a dozen systems located between all of the powers."
They could set this up in asteroid belts if they want to, as they are valueless and nobody ever visits them for any reason that I've heard of, so updating the game to put content in the belts would give players a reason to play PvP, a reason to do Powerplay, and it would even allow Solo players to feel safer dipping their toe in open as long as they stay away from the shark infested contested spots, as the ganking commanders would suffer a lot stronger penalty for bullying up a Hauler with their fully engineered Anaconda.
Those who want to gank everyone and talk about it being an important part of the game have the advantage of going into OPEN with:
1 - Years and years of practice
2 - The best possible combat build/wing they could manage
3 - They may/do go against builds designed for other things, that could never fight off or escape an engineered PvP situation. Even if you make a mining ship that can handle low level combat, you're not going to be min/maxed like someone who has only designed their ship to kill you.
You could have a game where everyone is forced into open if the penalties for being a were more severe. As it sits now, the penalty for someone costing me 24,000,000 in rebuy is the same as when I accidentally shoot an NPC civilian who later dies. Notoriety is a pain in the butt, but it's the same for accidentally scraping a system authority vessel who later dies from another attack as it is to purposely wait near a burning station and kill everyone who comes out.
As you said...
A - Notoriety for killing players should be different somehow, perhaps based on the player's ranks and the value of the ship destroyed.
B - Warnings could exist about where those notorious pirates are located (as you said).
C - Perhaps incentives or areas or awards could exist for players that are specifically dangerous and worth doing... so those who want to PvP or those who would risk PvP for a bigger reward... could sort of have their hot spots.
What if some kind of "open only" PowerPlay incentive was tied to anarchy systems?
What if certain systems were only available by "open" System Permit... perhaps a pristine ring system... things like that.
They could pinpoint or update "pristine anarchy systems" between PowerPlay capitals and put some kind of activity... like...
"Each power races to mine the most X in <System Open Only>... conflict zones are breaking out all through the system. This boom rush is occurring in a dozen systems located between all of the powers."
They could set this up in asteroid belts if they want to, as they are valueless and nobody ever visits them for any reason that I've heard of, so updating the game to put content in the belts would give players a reason to play PvP, a reason to do Powerplay, and it would even allow Solo players to feel safer dipping their toe in open as long as they stay away from the shark infested contested spots, as the ganking commanders would suffer a lot stronger penalty for bullying up a Hauler with their fully engineered Anaconda.
CMDR vigilantes, which is a wonderful concept, sadly not implemented. I guess the point is by not having C&P in a society (which ED is) then grannies and children would be afraid to "walk the streets" that would be a terrible way to live.........Oh wait!
And bounty hunters like me would really like it if criminal rank were some kind of bounty multiplier.
10x multiplier for kingpin?
Thank you for your effort, I can easily tell that you care about the game. For the record Gankers are not pvp fighters, they are simply muggers. I have no objection to anyone having a street fight, I grew up in a town in the middle of England where friday night was like fight club-brilliant fun, so I am quite combative in nature. Gankers are more predatorial than tough, cowards actually, So Elite COWARD is their true title. This game rewards cowards which says more about the makers than it says about the customers.
About a week ago I was launching my Clipper opal miner (in open) 640 speed no weapons top shields---RUN! anyway launching, came up the elevator and the port was full of airbourne Cutters one of which rammed me to pieces while I was on the pad ready to try and take off, rebuy 9m, so determined to go mining I launched again, same again this time the "game" gave me a discount rebuy 7m, the station did NOTHING.......I rest my case......I have to pay 100 bucks coss I clipped someone in the slot PATHETIC!
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It's not that there aren't ways to encourage both civil behavior and "constructive" PvP. The community has suggested quite a few. But FD chooses to ignore criticism and suggestions and willingly sticks to game mechanics that are, for everyone but gankers, broken. It's almost like we're subjected to some dystopian/machiavellian social experiment instead of a game with mechanics aimed to create compelling game play. And because of our love for Elite (or what it could be), we stick with it.
For a long time, I thought that C&P was an actual (but horribly failed) attempt to rectify the situation, and will in time be fixed. But no, FD has clearly communicated that the game and it's toxic shark pool community (I'm talking open, there are wonderful communities around, but they're splintered and more or less private) are as intended. For me, this is a clear sign that the game is not and will never be what I've been hoping for.
For a long time, I thought that C&P was an actual (but horribly failed) attempt to rectify the situation, and will in time be fixed. But no, FD has clearly communicated that the game and it's toxic shark pool community (I'm talking open, there are wonderful communities around, but they're splintered and more or less private) are as intended. For me, this is a clear sign that the game is not and will never be what I've been hoping for.
Just having too write on this board after 14 weeks of game play 4.5 bill in the bank and have to complain, is an insult to my intelligence. I shall log in to complete my power play then uninstall. If I'm still alive in 2020 I would like to say that should you manage to get some semblance of an update (FD) by that time, I doubt very much if I would give you any of my money.
In this game despite all I do feel, that I got enough back to make the journey "value for money" so can't really complain too much.
Cheers Killnine see you on the other side, I will also watch ANT vids and of course Yamiks to see if C&P is resolved in which case a trial download may ensue but don't hold your breath.
In this game despite all I do feel, that I got enough back to make the journey "value for money" so can't really complain too much.
Cheers Killnine see you on the other side, I will also watch ANT vids and of course Yamiks to see if C&P is resolved in which case a trial download may ensue but don't hold your breath.
Obsidian Ant is the bestests!
I am positively surprised by the fact that there is finally an update coming, but seeing yet another totally doomed "fix" to the broken C&P and Open is simply insulting.
14 weeks?
That's all?
And you managed to make 4.5 bil in 4 weeks?
I would argue the game is way too easy as it is if that's true.