NPC Shield regen' speed?

On this topic, tonight the alt account encountered an NPC Master Keelback, with near-infinite shields. Clearly engineered.

A vanilla, A-spec Cobra 3 (no engineering) stood no chance. Canopy went crunch in about ten seconds. Last hull reading was 14%. Then, boom. Running didn't work, BTW. It had me from the start.

My first loss, for the alt account. My alt is still rated Novice. 500+ KCr rebuy. Ouch.

But, The NPC's Are Pushovers (tm)!
 
FWIW, I ended-up taking my 'vette to my local "proving ground" (the compromised nav' beacon at Wala) and spent over an hour spacing Deadly/Elite NPC Anacondas with no problems.

I was deliberately shooting out their shields and then retreating to see how long it'd take before their shields came back on line and I didn't once see anything similar to the subject of this thread.
In fact, most of the time I gave up waiting for the shield to come back on-line 'cos it was taking so long.
 
Well, it does take 15 seconds for collapsed regen to even start. Same goes for a reboot/repair.

The only explanation for what's going on in your original post, other than simply not having an accurate recollection of time passing, is if there was latency while firing at a vessel not hosted locally, at the same time it used an SCB. This can sometimes make it appear that shields have failed, only to have them refill without actually being broken.
 
The only explanation for what's going on in your original post, other than simply not having an accurate recollection of time passing, is if there was latency while firing at a vessel not hosted locally, at the same time it used an SCB. This can sometimes make it appear that shields have failed, only to have them refill without actually being broken.
The interesting thing is that this can happen even with locally-hosted ships. I've been interdicted by an NPC pirate or two where this has happened, with no other players in supercruise at the time, and certainly none in the normal space instance.

Having shot them into SCBing, I've then been able to break through the SCB charge with sustained fire, started breaking their hull, only to have their shield recover anyway. On the indicator, their shield stays up at red rings, and their hull slowly goes down - pause to reload or lose aim, and it starts to turn blue again.

My guess is a bug where (occasionally, as most of the time the SCB stops once the shields break) there's an order of events like this:
- apply damage from hits (shields to 0%, spare damage spills over to hull)
- apply active SCB charge (shields to 0.05%)
- check if shields are down (no)

So if you don't break the shields before the SCB shield-boosting stage starts, they never drop as such, just bleed damage through.

Next time I see it I might actually remember to grab a video for a bug report.
 
Well, it does take 15 seconds for collapsed regen to even start. Same goes for a reboot/repair.

The only explanation for what's going on in your original post, other than simply not having an accurate recollection of time passing, is if there was latency while firing at a vessel not hosted locally, at the same time it used an SCB. This can sometimes make it appear that shields have failed, only to have them refill without actually being broken.
If an SCB is able to start the recharging phase before the shield goes down, it'll keep charging the shield but any damage spikes that overtake it's recharge rate will bleed through to damage the hull/modules. The shield both is and isn't down depending on how much damage you're doing, though it should be down when the SCB is finished charging, if you've kept up the weapons fire.
^Ninja'd

Add to this the fact an SCB is able to recharge the NPC ship's shield near fully is due to them barely having any shield boosters and their near perfect pip management to see why Cmdrs keep thinking that NPCs use engineered ships.

I did test and count an Elite Conda using a total of 9 SCBs with only one actual bank though, but it only happened after I let it get its shields back online. They've only used 4-6 the first time. I personally consider this a non-issue though, since their power plant normally dies before the shield reaches halfway through the recharge.
 
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I know its often stated that NPCs ignore heat, but I did see one comment a while back stating that you can stop NPCs using shield cells by pumping heat into them.

I put thermal shock on my single long range beam* and it seems to make a massive difference against Cutters and Conders shield cell spam.

*I haven't yet really figured out what to do with my PVE Corvette's bottom large hard point.
 
I fought two Anaconda NPC. One rated Dangerous on Solo? in 2.3.11 and another recently rated Deadly on Open with the 2.4 beta. They basically had energy resistant shield with fast recharge SCB. Both were interdiction. Never had any trouble taking out Anaconda until recently. The last one was attacked by NPC security (it literally chased me) and the shields didn't go down. Very Strange.
 
Just wanted to respond to this, simply to indicate the date and that the issue hasn't been resolved.

First off - 2020. This thead was made in 2017.

NPCs an be engineered now, so that factors into the mix.

This said, NPCs are NOT using stats anywhere close to what players have access to. Particular mission types are producing enemy NPCs with stats buffed significantly higher than what is actually available to players through engineering. The most obvious issues are several handicaps NPCs have access to that breaks the 'simulation' experience.

The first of these things is obvious -- these over-tuned NPCs can rapidly recover a BROKEN shield in mere secons. You'll see this one happen in real time, as their shield repair cycle makes a ticking noise every revolution it completes. The overtuned NPC's cycles will rapidly tick off in succession, signalling they are being buffed and are essentially breaking the sim experience.

Second - Enemies have infinite ammunition and expendable items. This includes chaff, point defence, missiles, ballistic/kinetic weaponry and limited count thermal weaponry (pink death orbs). Overtuned enemies can have access to both shield banks and heat sinks. When they use the heat sink you'll be able to tell as their 'shack' turns from red to white, then the lock will drop, then your sensors will pick them up again a few seconds later. It is extremely rare for these enemies to have access to both (you can see their modules in the 'target' sub menu, but it deviously hides exact information, like module rating, hull health and shield health). When an enemy uses a shield bank their shields will emit a faint blue glow, indicating a surge of power. You'll see this a lot. This is actually common practice for devs of many different games. Enemies simply do not have a cap on their munition count in most games. Unfortunately, this is not every other game out there - this is a space sim. It is imperative that rules are being followed and that is not happening here.

Third - Enemies ignore heat damage. Enemies are seemingly immune to heat buildup damage. This allows them to pop a shield bank and continue to attack the player and allied NPCs with impunity - even using energy weapons. Enemies do >not< have infinite energy, so they can't, say, fire beam lasers forever, but simply cannot overload their own system with thermal energy and burn up; taking damage as a result.

Fourth - Enemies can and will spam infinite missiles, including torpedoes. Yes. Torpedoes. Fdev, last year, indicated during an update that enemies were no longer going to be spamming missiles until after a player's shields have broken. That promise held true for about a month before enemies started reverting to spamming them immediately at the start of a fight.

Fifth - Enemies do not suffer FSD charge times due to nearby craft mass, which, for players, acts as a way to prevent a rapid FSD response and keep players from jumping away without first gaining distance to clear the mass hurdle. NPC ships do not suffer this. A tiny little Eagle isn't going to be effected by your Cutter, even if you're less than 20m away from the thing. To clarify, they are immune to mass FSD penalties from THE PLAYER. Other NPC ships, including your SLF, actually can prolong their FSD charge time. If you have the space cops on your side, for example, then several Viper's flying close to the enemy will prevent them from vanishing immediately and can buy you some time to finish them off.

These handicaps need to get the #$%@ out of the game. Yesterday. Again - Elite is a sim. This means enemies have to follow the same restrictions players have and abide by common rules. Fdev needs to properly code in finite munitions/etc, heat buildup damage, correct the issue with shattered shields rebuilding at an impossibly accelerated rate, and put in place measures to ensure such balance issues to not repeat in the future.



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Been playing since beta/launch.

1. Never seen this, (or what happened too the OP) shield recharge has always made sense to me understanding what can/can't happen with scb etc.

2. Nope, certainly not for scb and utilities. I've recently seen npc run out of chaff and scb. I almost always carry cascade rails and I can force an npc to run out of scb charges.

3. No idea, but they do use heatsinks with scb

4. Never seen this

5. Generally no, remember mass lock does not reflect ship size. But, there are definitely bugs in npc fsd jumps. I have (in the last 6 months) seen them do a short charge up when they should be mass locked, jump when almost inside a station, and jump when their fsd is at 0% health. They've never behaved completely reliably since launch.

So, 3 no, 1 maybe, and 1 I don't know.
 
Might as well offer my thoughts....

Since I made this thread, I've updated the weapons (and almost everything else) on my Cutter several times and I'm pretty sure my current build could wipe the floor with the ship I was flying 2 years ago.
I guess that might be important 'cos it'd mean the Annie I was shooting at wouldn't have needed to be especially tanky to survive an attack from my 2017 Cutter.

However...

The 2 things I specifically recall from that encounter were that it was much tougher than other, apparently similar, annie's I'd fought and that it's shield did reboot stupid-fast and recharged to 100% in only a few seconds.

I recall, at the time, there were rumours that there were "rogue" ships in the game, which were more powerful than average NPCs.
At the time I was (IIRC) working on a CG and so I was getting attacked by NPC Annie's once every couple of trips.
I'd submit to the interdiction, explode the attacker and be on my way again within a couple of minutes.
Whichever way you slice it - whatever internals that Annie had - it was way, way, tougher than the other Annie's I was encountering.

As for the shield rebooting, we're talking about a Cutter vs an Annie here so there wasn't much in the way of "dogfighting" going on.
I was, pretty much, just reverski-ing while shooting at it, I'd get the "target shield off-line" message, I'd carry on firing and then I'd see the shield "flare" around the ship and get a "target shield on-line" message a few seconds later.
And then, while I was still firing at it, it's shield restored up to 100% in, literally, 5 seconds (or less) - probably the length of time it takes for an SCB to activate.

Assuming it wasn't just an aberration, the closest I can come to explaining it would be that my weapons were a bit sucky and the Annie had, perhaps, a 5C bi-weave and one or more big SCBs which allowed it to completely recharge the shield very quickly.
Still got no idea how it might have managed to reboot the shield so quickly though.

Current-me's advice to 2017-me would just be to fit weapons powerful enough to smoke anything regardless of any shenanigans an NPC ship may or may not be up to.
 
Yes they use SCB. All the time as a matter of fact. I have also observed them boosting off and rebooting.
A combination of this and other factors can definitely produce the things you are seeing. I wouldn't be
surprised if they used the "disable boosters to speed up shield re-gen" trick as well. The sneaky rats.
X.
 
It's easy to tell if the enemy is rebooting their ship because they lose total control of the ship. In the cases i'm describing, the ship is not only still flying around, but also still engaging in combat, ruling out a reboot. The time they are cycling through the reboot would also, if even remotely related to what they are doing, would be with even ore handicaps as the time it's taking them to perform this action is literally seconds compared to the boot time the player has access to.

I have over 8 hours of footage I am in the painstaking process of highlighting all of these flaws for a 2020 review of the game, so believe me - footage exists of what is being described. For those not understanding what's happening with npc handicaps - or just never noticed, you'll be able to see exactly what is being described.

Also to clarify #2 - it's not every enemy. It's the ones they decide to 'overtune'. A lot of these issues can easily be reproduced with wing missions, for example. These missions are rampant with overtuning, even small fry like Cobras and Eagles being able to tank massive amounts of damage. I wish our Eagles could do that - it's one of the best looking ships in the entire game and is relegated to the role of flying tissue paper... 2-ply vs the sidey's one ply.
 
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BTW @Stealthie just in case I wasn't saying that I didn't believe you had what happened, I know you've been around long enough and there would have been some weirdness or a bug going on.

Shepard, I'm keen to see footage of what you're describing. There's a history of folk claiming NPCs have lots of crutches to help them against us players but in the past the devs, in particular the AI flight coder, have been clear that there's very little of that and very little evidence to support claims hence my response. It could also be that what you've seen is isolated bugs rather than general NPC behaviour.
Also, engineering can do ridiculous things to ships. An Eagle in a wing assassination mission will have G5 engineering all over to match what us players can do (these were introduced in response to player complaints that NPCs were to easy after they'd G5 d their murderboats. They've also buffed those in CZs). They're not overturned, just given access to the mods we can use to even things up, and if your own ship isn't Combat optimised they will feel extra tricky.
Still like I say, keen to see your footage, cheers.
 
I don't believe npcs play by the same rules 99% of the time, cant be when they highwake from a fight with no shields and ton hull damage, 2 secs later when u supercruise they interdict you again and full shields and no hull damage. Not sure if that's npc cheating or a programming advantage but its not at all realistic.
I am talking about npcs that are dispatched to kill you because of a certain mission you accepted. No one else has experienced this?
 
I don't believe npcs play by the same rules 99% of the time, cant be when they highwake from a fight with no shields and ton hull damage, 2 secs later when u supercruise they interdict you again and full shields and no hull damage. Not sure if that's npc cheating or a programming advantage but its not at all realistic.
I am talking about npcs that are dispatched to kill you because of a certain mission you accepted. No one else has experienced this?


This is non-persistent instancing at work. The ship is generated each time independent of it's condition the last time so it's an entirely new ship that the NPC attacker spawns with and it starts all over. The other one did high-wake somewhere, but the new one is generated because the mission says Tom Dumblebutt will spawn to attack you when you reach SC in system Whatchmacallit. It sucks, but it's a limitation of how its programmed, not really cheating.
 
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