You are spouting nonsense about cars and VR not being developed. They have clearly said they want to spend time on it and release when it is acceptable. That is all there is to it..
Nvidia 3070, 3080 rtx. no excuse for VR removal, discuss.
- Thread starter valbarr
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You are spouting nonsense about cars and VR not being developed. They have clearly said they want to spend time on it and release when it is acceptable. That is all there is to it..
Believe it or not, we (VR guys) are getting fed up with them as well...
Even in this very thread:I'd be inclined to agree with you, but:
So, to prevent the pancake trolls winning the argument with their repeated fallacious misinformation, I think our best approach is to keep reiterating evidenced and reasonable presumptions that dispel the pancake trolls myths. And currently, I think that means donning the roll of "Armchair Dev", and my case, that entails using my project management experience to theory craft reasons, based on past evidence, that VR in Odessy is viable, so that's what I'm doing.
- If we don't make noise we will be forgotten about and VR will be less likely to happen
- There are plenty of 2D players trolling us with "bye now and good ridence you entitled box head whiners"
- Granted we don't have all the details, but many of our opponents are telling us to naff off as adding VR to Odessy would:
- "take years"
- seriously delay the game
- force a rewrite
- force the developers to divert significant amounts of resources and thus cause gameplay and content to be sacrificed
- force the minimum requirements for the game to go through the roof
- VR does need high performance but it being in a game doesn't affect 2d requirements
But, I accept these optimistic projections are being forecast in the absence of specifics, but this is frontier, and we all know how forthcoming they are with details, but I acknowledge that you can't build anything solid on tumbleweed... But once we get those specifics, if there is anything that stymies the sort of "just plug it into the API" implementation i've been proposing, I'll be changing my tune and saying "now I know STUFF, I understand THAT would be a problem, but would a possible workaround be THIS idea?" - As in trying to provide constructive suggestions on how to work around issues with Odessy that render it incompatible with or suboptimal for VR.
But with the very little information we have just now, I genuinely cannot see any reason for VR not to "work with" Odessy.
I'd just issue them all with refunds, close their accounts, and then pack them off out the door. So much easier!
Although it is worth noting, both sides are feeling "combat attrition":
All we really need is a clear, unambiguous statement from frontier:
I'll keep an eye out on them myself. See if the performance really does outdo the 2080ti.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
The justification for development expenditure for ambulatory VR in EDO would very likely take into account the fact that a subset of the minority of players who use VR would potentally suffer from nausea in a form of VR that the game has not yet offered, i.e. on foot rather than seated.
Frontier knowing how many players use VR headsets should be taken as read - estimating how many would be able to use them in FPS mode is another matter entirely. For all we know, Frontier could already have tried out walkabout VR and may have based their decision not to include it at launch for EDO on that.
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Thank you, I wrote that summary almost as if it were to be the agenda for Frontier to use in an internal meeting to decide what if anything they were going to offer for VR, as those two letters cover almost as wide a gamut as the words "computer game", and there is no absolute scale or criteria for what defines which I can imagine only muddies the waters in any discussion about potential VR integration. I know from other stuff I am doing IRL we talk about TRL which is Technology Readiness Level, and its a great system for quantifying the progression of a concept through development into implementation/commercialisation, but in the absence of such a scale for VR, for the purposes of debating VR's future in Eltie (Odessy onwards), I made that scale.
I gave a simple analogy that you decided to take in a completely bizarre way. That is all there is to it.
This is an interesting question and a hard one to answer. I am a Frontier and ED fan. I've been playing it from pretty much the start. I was not a backer but did start playing shortly after launch. Would I pay a sub? My first inclination would be sure I would love to help keep ED developmentally viable. After I sit for a minute though when my senses return to me and I shake off my fanboi knee jerk reaction I would have to say no. no I would not. There a few reasons for that.
1. Two years without any updates. I fully understand why that came about and I supported it at the time. for the simple reason that I was behind the QOL fixes that Frontier talked about releasing, the game needed them. Those have been minimal though and I was once again disappointed by what the actual fixes were. the best of them was the change to the Engineer slot machine. However since the announcement of EDO I have to question my choice to be okay with this because I am getting locked out of EDO, I am a VR player and will not get EDO until full VR support is added. The Fleet Carrier update is cool, I like what people have done with them, I don't want one though as that is not my personal play style in the game so this was an update that really did nothing for me personally. So really Horizons was the last significant content upgrade that I had any interest in taking part in. I am fine with that it is my choice Horizons was a hell of an expansion.
2. I would not be able to pay a sub for the simple fact that along with two years since the last meaningful update that I was able to take part in, they have actually REMOVED features that I enjoyed and did take part in. the two prime examples that everyone who has been around for a while are familiar with are of course CG's and Galnet. Those two things alone did a lot to pull me into the lore of the game and allowed me to enjoy what came to be some pretty exciting story beats.
3. Features that have been developed and ignored to the point that they have become meaningless for the game over all. I am talking about Power Play, Smuggling, and CQC. I know they have their fans and I get it but the implementation has been handled badly. Power Play has been entirely ignored since being implemented. People have been complaining about this for years now and I understand the pain. The exact same goes for smuggling. The mechanics were addeed into the game and seemed to be a taste of what was in store for us. Unfortunately a taste of things to come was as far as it got and it has now languished as an underdeveloped meh mechanic since. CQC was launched to a massive response of "Why?" by the player base. it was a cool idea but it never took off because it did not get the support from Frontier that it needed to be really successful. it was in my opinion another case of an expansion that was half baked and ignored after the initial hype. I was so personally disinterested in CQC that I have never even started it, and it seems to me that I would be the kind of player that they would want to log into it and play it.
There are a few other reasons but this is post got excessive a couple paragraphs back. So no I would not be able to justify paying a sub.
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If you see my scale thingy I quoted a few posts up, it captures VR motion sickness on foot, a lot of VR guys were fine in the pilots seat in 1.X but when Horizons dropped the SRV earned itself a reputation of being the "barf buggy", frontier put some controls in place to ameliorate that, such as the SRV maintain Horizon option. Similarly when SLF's came to the game in 2.3, they would spin in the range of thousands of revolutions per minute if clipped/rammed/bashed by another ship, even some of the hardiest VR players such as myself found that disorienting, so the spin rate was brought down to something more sensible and SRV's & SLF's now have the "blackout" option to fade to black during more violent uncontrolled motions.
I think that some of those learnings and the associated code tweaks for assuaging nausea in the daughter vehicles could eaisly transfer to serve to polish the perambulated VR experience, and (not a coder; but thinking with an engineering mindset) I also think the code for the tweaks mentioned above could reasonably easily be copied and mildly modified for use on foot. I actually cited the comparability of the SRV horizon option to a "reduce headbob" option. And if your CMDR was on foot and hit with enough energy to make them spin at the thousands of RPM SLF's used to spin at, they'd be dead, but if they lost their footing on a mountain, and started summersaulting down the side of a ruddy great big hill, that might be something that warrants a fade to black moment?
Speaking for myself, I wouldn't pay a subscription for a game pancakes were outright buyung, but I'd be be willing to pay a surcharge, say £40 for Odyssey, £60 for Odyssey VR, and I'd be a lot happier to go back to my old spending habits of (voluntarily) buying paintjobs and other merch to contribute to / reward the company. But until we get a firm statement that VR is coming, they ain't getting a ha'penny outta me.
Did they fix this? I put my sister in an SLF and flew her into a rock, never tried it myself though. She wasn't happy.
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
In what circumstance?
My gtx 980 is essentially the same performance as a 6gb 1080 and I saw a huge improvement in almost all cases going to a 1080ti
Even then however it's still not a 4k capable card in the newest games on full detail and it's not worth even trying raytracing (i did just for fun).
That said you do touch on something...... I do think next gen going beyond the 3090 nV will have to come up with some other hook to get me to upgrade again (in 4-5 years time) because the 8k that they were demoing does not interest me 1 jot. I fear they are trying to create a market that isn't there.... Of course I may be wrong. Some people say exactly the same for VR.
But me, as far as flat screen gaming is concerned 4k is as much as I will ever need and the last hurdle was real time ray tracing. It was not there for me with Turing so I skipped it but with ampere.... It just may be.
They still spinned last I played* but it was certainly made a lot slower spin, and you can look at the SLF scanner to see what way it's moving and counter it whereas originally it was impossible, they spun like a millisecond pulsar and even the scanner was a blur.
*I've got to put my hands up to only having a handful of minutes in game since the VR bombshell dropped as I'm scunnered, and before that as I'd been in open, and people were saying my SLF was breaking the instance I've not been flying them much this year, so what I've said above might be outdated information now.
I use a 65" 4k screen on my desk as my monitor, even with that big a screen I need to run windows at 125% scaling, and even with the 125% scaling, the time on the sys-tray clock is only 4.5mm high letters, 8k? Dont be silly! If we went 8k on a 65" screen, even with the 125% scaling, the letters on the sys tray clock would be 1.125mm high, take away that scaling they'd be 0.9mm high. Maybe 8kVR "retina resolution" or higher might warrant the presumably 40 series Mike is talking about? But that's a different kettle of fish as that screen will be at the end of your nose.
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Much as I love a good debate on VR in Odyssey, has anyone asked whether the minimum or recommended specs have changed for 2D players?it looks like odyssey is doing the opposite
View attachment 187237
So let's get ^ that ^ rendering robustly for 1 screen before we aim for 2.
Weren't there valid technical reasons outside of Frontier's control, that prevented MAC users getting the updates PC and Console players could? Something to do with no compute shaders in MAC OS's graphics API?
Calling @amigacooke come in amigacookie
Don't forget offlinegate either
The advantage Mac users had was they could still play the game
Yes, there was, apple basically shut the door on PC games running natively on their hardware by requiring all games be rewritten to access "Metal" which was their new proprietary Direct X / Vulcan...
And that's because they weren't completely thrown under a bus, they could dual boot using "boot camp" and run an actual copy of windows and play the game that way, thus preventing their hardware being relegated to a silicon-based dust catcher as far as the game was concerned. However, VR, there is no such dual boot*, so our plight is more akin to them saying "Odyssey won't be available on console, but you are welcome to keep playing horizons"... Might sound ridiculous saying that, but if you think of it this way, a VR headset costs about the same sort of money as a current console, and moving forward, our console money headsets are, much like the consoles in the above scenario, as far as the game is concerned, irrelevant.
Except the windows version of the game is the same as the Mac version. But touche I guessSo can VR players just not with VR
I don't know if you fully understand the VR situation, but as it stands VR stops with Horizons, there is NOTHING in Odyssey that will be accessible in VR. And what I am about to say is not your fault, nor is it meant as a slight against you, but unless you've played Elite in VR, you cannot understand the difference it makes to the game. Some say going from VR to monitor would be like being forced to play the game keyboard only, Forum user @benryder - that crazy son uva gun made Elite flying keyboard only and shared his bindings, but Starlight says it's more like the way Diablo went from a PC game to a phone game. Sure everyone's got phones, and everyone's got a monitor, but I'd go as far as to say losing VR from elite would be like going from Hotas + head tracker + Big / triple monitor(s) to it becoming a mobile phone game.
So yeah, goddamnit, if we are going for the lowest common denominator, better scrap HOTAS, gamepad, and mouse support and make elite a keyboard only game, or better still make it mobile phone only.
I see we've finally arrived at the reductio ad absurdum moment.
Edit: I also have no idea why this is a separate thread when we have a 193 page threadnought of bellyaching just two threads below it on the front page.
Edit: I also have no idea why this is a separate thread when we have a 193 page threadnought of bellyaching just two threads below it on the front page.
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