Obfuscation Is Not Transparency
- Thread starter NAKEDnick
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tbf they do keep saying that. I just don't think the forum believes them.
I don't think I actually said that they were good or bad at communication. Merely that players are not entitled to know what the future developments are or when to expect them. Players can attempt to influence FDev by giving good suggestions. Though a lot of the suggestions I have seen recently have involved "take this huge chunk out of the same I want to get to the end instantly" sort. On the other hand I have seen some very good suggestions. The problem is that you can satisfy some of the people some of the time, rarely all the people some of the time or some of the people all the time. The other problem is the whiners and whingers are very vocal. Sometimes damn rude. Would you like Sally and Arthur's job. It takes a very thick skinned individual to take on such a role. On one side you have a very aggressive set of player and on the other side you have to satisfy the managers trying to make a good product that sells for the minimum of cost.
The event calendar construction and user interface is under FDev's control. The inputting of events is up to the community.
I did not say that the bug tracker was the best tool in the world. I don't know any bug tracker system that is great. FDev will be using their own system internally to track the dev and testing of the bugs they have reported to them. What I was saying was that the bug system suffers with people creating multiple duplicate tickets. I think what is needed is a better way if searching the current bug list so that you can see if someone else has reported the issue beforehand.
So how would you decide what bugs to fix first. They at least tried to identify which one they thought most people wanted fixed. There are of course other criteria like cost and risk that must be considered. However, if you look at the threads associated with a software update, you will find lots of "but you did not fix the bug that I wanted you to fix" comments.
I would agree that adding new bugs is avoidable. That is one of my major criticisms of FDev. Their system testing is really really bad.
Communication from FDev is certainly not great either. There is a certain amount of secrecy involved here. Adding in more communication, particularly the sort expected by the OP would not solve the problem at all. It would only serve to fuel the whingers and whiners. If they did tell you their plans then there would be people who would object to the plans, those that would complain that deadlines were not met and so on. Its a no win situation for FDev. If you add details and cannot achieve them then people complain. If you don't go into detail then the doom sayers will say that the game is dead or make up stories. There are people who want lots of details and those that would prefer to find out things for themselves. You cannot satisfy both.
The community's purpose for the forum is to discuss the game. The good parts and the bad parts. That is not Fdev's desire for the forum, certainly not the negative comments. They want the forum as a mechanism to spread the word about the game so that more people buy it. Again I agree with you that you cannot please all the people all the time. This type of game never will. I don't know of any game that does.
With a game that has so many avenues to go down there are plenty of opportunities for improving the game, but at the same time you cannot improve everything all at the same time. Take the Thargoid war as an example. For those that like Thargoid bashing, this has been a great step forward. For those that do not, its a bit meh!
So going back to the OP's request for more information on the game's roadmap. Let' suppose that they tell us that they will include feature A, B and C by the end of the year, but not implement D, E and F. What would happen?
- There would be a group of people complaining that they did not want feature A, B or C.
- Another group who wanted D, E and F and complaining that they were not being developed.
- Another group complaining that X, Y and Z had not even been included.
- A group of clock watchers waiting for the end of the year and complaining that C was not quite ready to be released.
- Another bunch of people who don't believe a word that is being said.
- Those that still think the game is going into maintenance mode.
Having said that FDev are not entirely without blame. You are right that some (if not a lot) is of their own making, but it is also true that people tend to be ultra negative these days. Feading these people with expectations and broken promises does not work. Just look at all the negativity due to ship interiors being put on the back burner.
Every time we manage to convince FD to communicate more, there has always been some numpty who just can't rein in their crazy.
Sad, but true.
Sad, but true.
I'd suggest it's not due to ship interiors being put on the back burner, I'd suggest it's due to ship interiors still being on the back burner after ten years.
Fdev has always had communication issues , they have always said it will improve and it does for a tiny bit and then falls back to even worse than it used to be . That will never change .
The some "numpty" post is just used as a convinent scapegoat, so they can post well the community wants it ?
@amigacooke [mac os]
Something was always going to be last.
Considering there are still many elements to be added, which would flesh out interiors (like EVA / armstrong etc... ), there was probably truth in them saying there was nothing to put in it... at least now.
They also would not be able to sell that DLC on the promise it will come eventually. All things would need to be in place.
So, that would explain why it'll likely be one of the last things... no matter the demands of the community as they don't have to plan the development and organise the staff etc...
Something was always going to be last.
Considering there are still many elements to be added, which would flesh out interiors (like EVA / armstrong etc... ), there was probably truth in them saying there was nothing to put in it... at least now.
They also would not be able to sell that DLC on the promise it will come eventually. All things would need to be in place.
So, that would explain why it'll likely be one of the last things... no matter the demands of the community as they don't have to plan the development and organise the staff etc...
As you can tell, this forum makes it hard to just "light a candle".
@angusmadmac1
This game has had a long history of community members being abusive or losing the plot..
There are also those who derail just so they can get their forum warrior on.
Sally had to lock a thread recently because it went off on an unrelated tangent, making her job much harder..
It's been like this since 2015 but it's much worse now. All it usually takes is some unrelated doom and the usual suspects arrive... and the original premise of the thread is lost.
This game has had a long history of community members being abusive or losing the plot..
There are also those who derail just so they can get their forum warrior on.
Sally had to lock a thread recently because it went off on an unrelated tangent, making her job much harder..
It's been like this since 2015 but it's much worse now. All it usually takes is some unrelated doom and the usual suspects arrive... and the original premise of the thread is lost.
OK. I agree that it is ten years, but the principle is the same. If FDev were to communicate more then you would have more negative news and more reaction to said news. So 10 years ago Fdev "suggested" that ship interiors were to be a thing (I've heard that that is debateable, but lets assume that they said that it would be a thing). They have subsequently decided that (for whatever reason) that it is currently still not a viable proposition. Now there a group of people who are upset. Now if that DBOBE video had never been made and no 'promise' of ship interiors had ever been made, then you would have had that same group of people longing for ship interior, but they would not have been so miffed and feeling cheated.
They did not mention the arrival of the Titans. Nobody got upset because they had not arrived. They suddenly pop up and the anti-xeno people go "wow" and start exploring it. There was no expectation of what Titan's provide, its up to us to find out. Now granted we get there and there is a disappointment that we cannot go inside. But hang on, FDev have not said that will always be the case. We then start to wonder if that is coming in a future update. The expectation is there, the disappointment is minimal. In the meantime we are still buzzing around the Titans in the hope we will find something new about them.
The lack of communication has not lowered our expectations, the disappointment has not been major because there is still a possibility of more we can do with the Titans. FDev CMs had to do zero PR work. We did it ourselves. Time passes and still nothing we can do with the Titans. That does not stop us trying. Disappointment starts to settle in. Perhaps there is nothing else we can do with Titans. Then comes along a Galnet article that suggests that pilots may be able to locate the captured humans in pods. Expectation rises and some people get excited, but there is no deadline or details. It is left to our imagination. We could be going inside or we could just be shooting components on the Titan hull that causes pods to be ejected. The Devs still have several avenues to pursue. Some may fall by the wayside, but at least the players won't know about it and won't be disappointed that that feature is not there.
So OP, there is communication, but it is coming via Galnet rather than the CMs and it is designed to pique our interest, without giving any deadlines, promises or details. Job done, now the CMs can concentrate on the F1 game or what ever needs the promotion that day to build up pre-sales. In the meantime, carry on playing the game, there may be more to discover, or maybe not. It might be introduced in the next update, it might be sitting there waiting for us.
But sadly this game was built on 'suggestions', Frontier used Kickstarter (their choice) and gave a list of future enhancements (their choice) and pretended that everyone was part of the process (their choice).
I'm going to get Starfield (my choice) and I won't be disappointed because Bethesda have provided a game where you can see what is available before being asked to part with money (their choice).
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Also it runs on all the hardware out there also their choice
Does it run on macOS?Also it runs on all the hardware out there also their choice
Whilst I do condone any abuse ( even to art) and know full well it's Frontiers house so their rules and I'm fully aware of the rules appertaining to talking about those things . There have been some posts that have been rerouted by "non doom sayers" for the same reason .
I agree that since 2016 ( when I started so a relative newbie) the forum has become more toxic.
Its all a matter of opinion doom or no doom .
Elite will die a slow death of a thousand cuts, it happens . We have at least to u17 and possibly Dec when the rework gets announced ? And the story isn't going to end in the next 6 months ....
the forum hasn't gotten worse. there's just more history to reference. People were complaining about the complaining back in 2016. it's always been a bunch of players unhappy about something more than the things they are happy about. that's just how this game was designed to be.
attracting players who want very different things by giving them almost what they all want.
attracting players who want very different things by giving them almost what they all want.
@angusmadmac1
It's about letting threads serve their intended purpose.
It really doesn't matter who does it.
It's about letting threads serve their intended purpose.
It really doesn't matter who does it.
Its all down to an opinion, which is always a danger. My opinion differs but I wouldn't try and derail a thread because I personally don't agree with as I realise it's only my thoughts and opinions , I read reply and I skip or like the posts.
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Your logic reads kinda like a letter to Santa from Bart Simpson!
Just a Live Service Game.. for which we've paid in advance for the Service...