[Obsidian Ant] Elite Dangerous - The Credits Problem: A Case of Feeling Unrewarded?

[Gerdofal]

I think he makes good points.

From my point of view, I think the credits per hour tend to be a little low if you do what you enjoy, and a little high if you concentrate on the "grind of the month" money making plan. (And insanely high if you take advantage of whatever buggy method currently gives tons of credits.)

However, for my personal enjoyment of the game, I find the important issue isn't actually credits per hour. It's credits per RL week and per RL month. As I get older and have less playtime, RL time impacts me more.

What I mean is this: Right now, it would take me about 3 or 4 RL weeks to make enough credits to pay for the loss of my Federal Corvette. The consequence of that is that I don't take any risks with it. I don't have a ton of credits saved up, so I can't try some things I'd like to try because losing the ship a couple of times would mean I have to put it away in a station for a month before I can fly it again.

Sure, the number of hours to make that much isn't huge, but if I can't do what I want to do for a month I'm just more likely to put ED away and play something else. It becomes not fun.

As the video said, it's about the things I enjoy doing being unrewarding. And personally, the risk is really high and the rewards somewhat low.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

Why do you have to take on Thargoid with specific ship you didn't have nor you were prepared to do so?

There's only a limited number of ships that a capable of taking on a Thargoid, and the Gunship is one of the cheapest and easiest to get.

If you want to fight Thargoids - you need to have the ship to do so. It's not like fighting NPC's, where you can use any old non-engineered ship. This means there is a barrier to obtain that ship, and that is completely fair.

But pretending that barrier isn't a barrier is doing a disservice to the content that is on the other side of that barrier (in this case Thargoids). The Thargoids are a lot of fun to fight with, but you can't do it in a Sidewinder, or a non-engineered ship> This means you need to do activities such as engineering, and rep building in order to get there. There's really no two ways about it. Some people don't enjoy those activities. But all of that is besides the point.

If I (or danteuk) feel happy with the ship and the fight once we are involved with it, then we are rewarded for all the work. This is the type of reward that is good in Elite (even if the process of getting there is questionable). The game could do with more rewarding outcomes like this, on all levels of the gameplay and time investments.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Bottom line; it's not so much a problem with the credits as it is to do with leaving the player feeling rewarded. It's difficult to talk about credits without also talking about game mechanics. Mechanics are being overhauled next year so I didn't want to focus on that subject. Instead, I was raising the point that maybe the reward system should also be revisited, and either start valuing credits in a different manner, or perhaps start offering other rewards to people (cosmetics, modules, ships etc).

Correct. Money is not the only reward. But it is a barrier to getting the rewarding game experience that you desire.

 

[Harry Hates Golf]

Oh, the hell with credits and that other malarkey.

When I hear that a faction needs help, well jeepers, I just want to jump in and lend them a hand. Hey, they are dealing with a famine in their region or outbreak of some disease. Gosh, if I can help them by running some data over to another system, then dang gummit, I'm going to do it, come hell or high water. I'll data scan the hell outta any outpost if it means that some faction will have peace in their region!

Sure, I may get some cash out of all of this, but it's all pocket change to me when compared to the real reward of seeing smiling, happy faces who enjoy the sound of clashing ideas, for they know that it is the sound of freedom.

Amen.

Cmdr. Taylor
Only cared about the spiritual reward​

 

[RidingTheFlow]

Oh, the hell with credits and that other malarkey.

When I hear that a faction needs help, well jeepers, I just want to jump in and lend them a hand. Hey, they are dealing with a famine in their region or outbreak of some disease. Gosh, if I can help them by running some data over to another system, then dang gummit, I'm going to do it, come hell or high water. I'll data scan the hell outta any outpost if it means that some faction will have peace in their region!

Sure, I may get some cash out of all of this, but it's all pocket change to me when compared to the real reward of seeing smiling, happy faces who enjoy the sound of clashing ideas, for they know that it is the sound of freedom.

Amen.

https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.ne...taylor2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20091102124612
Cmdr. Taylor
Only cared about the spiritual reward​

I helped faction in famine once. They seemed like decent chaps. Then I advanced in ranks, met their Glorious Leader and they ended to be some crazy commie cultists

Also, can't help to affect situation much without large ship to carry these refugees or medicines.
Or without stronK ship to kill these gangs of pirate bullies.

You need money to buy & outfit a good ship - so you need money, even if you here for spiritual reward.

 

[SpaceScania]

From my point of view, I think the credits per hour tend to be a little low if you do what you enjoy, and a little high if you concentrate on the "grind of the month" money making plan. (And insanely high if you take advantage of whatever buggy method currently gives tons of credits.)

I think this is a good point. Frontier are struggling to figure out how to make those who want to play the game the right way get rewarded without causing mind-numbingly huge payouts when exploit situations do arise.

What I mean is this: Right now, it would take me about 3 or 4 RL weeks to make enough credits to pay for the loss of my Federal Corvette. The consequence of that is that I don't take any risks with it. I don't have a ton of credits saved up, so I can't try some things I'd like to try because losing the ship a couple of times would mean I have to put it away in a station for a month before I can fly it again.

While I do think your concern is valid overall, there are non-cheesy ways to make enough money to cover a Corvette re-buy more quickly than that? In an Orca/Beluga you can earn 10-20 million credits in about an hour just by taking a pair of sight-seeing missions within the bubble. Each of these missions will have 2-3 stops all within 300ly and they often pay in excess of 5MCr each? When I need cash this is what I will do. However, I agree you shouldn't have to do that. You should be able to earn enough dough in your Corvette to keep it flying.

But in the meantime I'd do some sightseeing missions if you like me have limited play time.

 

[Harry Hates Golf]

I helped faction in famine once. They seemed like decent chaps. Then I advanced in ranks, met their Glorious Leader and they ended to be some crazy commie cultists

Also, can't help to affect situation much without large ship to carry these refugees or medicines.
Or without stronK ship to kill these gangs of pirate bullies.

You need money to buy & outfit a good ship - so you need money, even if you here for spiritual reward.

Commie Cultists....that is total bad craziness.

I'm always worried I might end up helping a cannibal faction, something like aliens from the Twilight Zone's "To Serve Man".

Not a Commie Cultists, but....​

 

[evanevery]

I think OA is spot on.

They key word here is "rewarded". Players need to feel "rewarded" for their accomplishments. Its part of basic gameplay.

I play some games that don't even offer credits or money. But they offer other rewards like objectives which continue to be fun or interesting the deeper you go...

However, ED doesn't offer that. I've done pretty much everything there is to do in Elite and now the only way I can find new and interesting things to pursue is to buy new ships/modules/weapons and have fun trying them out and experimenting. Credits are the only avenue to extend this interest - and if we can't make credits in a "reasonable amount of time" then this is pretty much the end of the road...

The ONLY REASON why credits are such a hot topic WRT to ED is that for many people its the only way they can enable new and interesting things to do.

If ED offered more depth and diversity - no one would care so much about credits (unless they were a required enabler).

{Flame Away}

 

[EdzUp]

What he says is true.

To a fashion

In order to solve basically all but the "I must earn 1bn credits a second, because reasons" complaints, FD need to balance all activities in the game, to earn roughly the same.

Piracy and mining pay a pitiful amount, and are basically not worth the effort.
Which is a shame if that's your chosen career.

So basically for miners they should get amazing payouts for mining dirt instead of diamonds, or haulers get billions for hauling biowaste instead of diamonds etc. In ED its down to you you mine in a spent zone you're going to get a low yield but go mine in a pristine when you find one then your going to get something worth it. Its the same for hauling cargo etc.

Some people still think credits are a status symbol, and will flock to the Quince of the times.

But I think most people would be happy, if they could earn roughly the same no matter what profession they choose.

And I also mean PvP activities being a valid career.

I have said time and time again FDEV need to put in a bounty board which when someone is posting the credits are removed from their balance and put against the target. As always the target HAS to have done something to the poster not just putting bounties on everyones head because you can.

The reason people flock to Quince and Sothis etc isnt because of the BILLION credit rush its because they cant be bothered to play the game they want to rush through it like the pay to win brigade, if you come to ED expecting it to be amazingly easy and if you throw money at it quick to complete you are mistaken its a open ended space game NOT Candy Crush Saga.

 

[Sunsol]

I think the issue is the lack of things to buy with credits.

 

[evanevery]

I think the issue is the lack of things to buy with credits.

Even after you have a pretty well established fleet, it takes lots of credits to move them around if you want to change your home base once in a while.

Ever try to transfer a Cutter out to Colonia?

 

[Stealthie]

I think OA is spot on.

They key word here is "rewarded". Players need to feel "rewarded" for their accomplishments. Its part of basic gameplay.

The paradox, though, is that the sort of stuff that IS likely to be "rewarding" is also stuff that people whine is too much effort so they carry on with the "get rich quick" stuff, while bleating about how repetitive it is.

 

[Enderby]

I think the issue is the lack of things to buy with credits.

Yes, yes and, furthermore, yes.

 

[sollisb]

I think the issue is the lack of things to buy with credits.

You'd need some amount of credits now to be in a position to have nothing to buy...

For example; I have 2 Cutters, Corvette, Anaconda, 3 Pythons, FDL, FAS, Vulture, Cobra, DBX, AspX, Clipper, Courier. And Still have ships to buy and kit out.

 

[RidingTheFlow]

Now we started with "game activities don't give enough credits" and now arrived at "I have nothing to buy with my credits". That's crazy talk?

 

[Enderby]

You'd need some amount of credits now to be in a position to have nothing to buy...

For example; I have 2 Cutters, Corvette, Anaconda, 3 Pythons, FDL, FAS, Vulture, Cobra, DBX, AspX, Clipper, Courier. And Still have ships to buy and kit out.

Other stuff apart from ships maybe? Investments in stations maybe where you get dividends etc. Though, what you'd then spend them on...

They should add Gwent.

 

[SpaceScania]

The paradox, though, is that the sort of stuff that IS likely to be "rewarding" is also stuff that people whine is too much effort so they carry on with the "get rich quick" stuff, while bleating about how repetitive it is.

That's a generalization though. Those people do exist but there are many others (like ObisidianAnt) who recognize that there are opportunities to make the game more rewarding for a wider swath of the players. Rather than paint everyone as a "get rich quick" type of player why not have an open mind and look at the really good suggestions on offer in this thread?

 

[WR3ND]

Bottom line; it's not so much a problem with the credits as it is to do with leaving the player feeling rewarded. It's difficult to talk about credits without also talking about game mechanics. Mechanics are being overhauled next year so I didn't want to focus on that subject. Instead, I was raising the point that maybe the reward system should also be revisited, and either start valuing credits in a different manner, or perhaps start offering other rewards to people (cosmetics, modules, ships etc).

Heh, was too busy chatting with you on the video to catch your reply here.

Took some time to see what you were getting after more, and no need to repeat myself here as people can go check out the video and our conversation there, if they want.

I will say though that I did remove the thumbs down I gave it at first, even though I do think it's perhaps somewhat unfortunate that the discussion is framed around the "credit grind" in general.

Cheers.

 

[fu9ar]

I don't have any problems with the way things are now. It should be more difficult to keep a big ship flying in Elite. It used to be that games got harder when you got further in, not easier. It should be a really big loss when you blow up flying the biggest and most powerful ships in the game. You should feel really bad when you do something boneheaded and blow up a 'conda. I think what you want is to feel effectively invincible once you get to the top "tier" of ships. You want to feel like you leveled up and once you get there you can't ever fall off of your pedestal.

 

[Stealthie]

That's a generalization though. Those people do exist but there are many others (like ObisidianAnt) who recognize that there are opportunities to make the game more rewarding for a wider swath of the players. Rather than paint everyone as a "get rich quick" type of player why not have an open mind and look at the really good suggestions on offer in this thread?

Such as?