Obsidian Ant NEW VIDEO - Crime and Punishment is Flawed
- Thread starter Maro-Val
- Start date
Well having initially thought about it when ED first launched and then taken their time to go back over it with a fine tooth comb this is what all those months of design and planning and coding brought us. If anything, this shows that FDev
Don't know their own game
Don't play their own game
Don't know good game play mechanics that also don't "waste our time"
It's strikes me as peculiarly odd that they don't look at other games for help. They obviously don'ty play any games because if they did they'd be able to say things like "hey you remember in X when they had Y well we could do a version of that"
Like?
Pointing out an issue where the only solution is to suicide, and wanting to discuss other ways that this can be avoided (such as OA pointing out that an 'impound' would be a workable solution), isn't asking for ZERO consequences.
Again, you're generalizing and assuming that people want zero consequences, rather than changing how C&P works so that the consequences are still there, but also don't require you to blow your self up, let the cops kill you, or take time jumping to an IF "because".
It's a crazy idea to think that there are people who think that the C&P system can make some slight changes to how it functions now to make it more engaging and not so limiting....
" I completely agree with "The new system has taken the annoyance of stray friendly fire and turned it into a ridiculous drudge."
I usually fly a passenger ship and finally was able to afford a Vulture. I took her out on her first voyage and had a friendly fire incident that became a chase, a jump and no idea how to clear my name. I lost an hour tooling around. Elite Dangerous is supposed to be in the future, could the authorities just send me a message with a warning for the incidental shot and after a third send me a bill so that I can get back to bounty hunting and not turn my limited game session to a cluster Funk time sink!!! The punishment is a way to high! I literally rage quit in frustration and started to consider if Elite Dangerous is a game I want to spend my limited time on. I love it so much... but man! Respect a gamers time! I want to fly and learn the new ships I am flying. This was such a crappy experience that I am going to need a break from the game that I love and perhaps play something that will make a 1-hour session more enjoyable than a frustrating experience. Sorry for the Rant! I hope they smooth out the bumps and I guess I will be back to Space Uber for me :-(
I usually fly a passenger ship and finally was able to afford a Vulture. I took her out on her first voyage and had a friendly fire incident that became a chase, a jump and no idea how to clear my name. I lost an hour tooling around. Elite Dangerous is supposed to be in the future, could the authorities just send me a message with a warning for the incidental shot and after a third send me a bill so that I can get back to bounty hunting and not turn my limited game session to a cluster Funk time sink!!! The punishment is a way to high! I literally rage quit in frustration and started to consider if Elite Dangerous is a game I want to spend my limited time on. I love it so much... but man! Respect a gamers time! I want to fly and learn the new ships I am flying. This was such a crappy experience that I am going to need a break from the game that I love and perhaps play something that will make a 1-hour session more enjoyable than a frustrating experience. Sorry for the Rant! I hope they smooth out the bumps and I guess I will be back to Space Uber for me :-(
So, if I'm in a system where I take a planetary scan mission from one faction for a scan in the system, complete the mission, gain a bounty, return to the dock, hand in the mission, but oh wait... I can't take another mission from the faction that gave me the illegal mission in the first place.
That... doesn't make sense. Not getting missions from the faction I committed the crime against makes sense, heck, even other factions. But not getting missions from the faction that gave me the illegal mission in the first place, because I'm wanted from their mission, is a prime example of where this system has some flaws.
I'm not one who would ever min-max, but just because I don't doesn't mean I think it's a good mechanic that doesn't need changing.
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I agree keep it up.
I really enjoy your videos and have learned a lot from them. I'm fairly new to ED waiting for the port to PS4 and pre ordered it and had it on the release day, but I watched your videos for about a year before it was available on the PS4 patiently waiting for my go at it. So many of the PC players that have been playing since its release in 2014/2015 would probably consider me a newcomer and that's fine, but i'm not new to Elite at all. My favorite game back in the day was Elite that I mail ordered from the UK in 1985 and played on my Commodore 64 and achieved Elite status vector graphics and all. Before I got Elite Dangerous I bought and played every Call of Duty game, now I play ED more than any other game. I love it but do believe that the new crime and punishment system is a mess. I also believe that at some point FDEV will correct their mistake hopefully sooner than later.thanks OA keep the videos coming.
I really enjoy your videos and have learned a lot from them. I'm fairly new to ED waiting for the port to PS4 and pre ordered it and had it on the release day, but I watched your videos for about a year before it was available on the PS4 patiently waiting for my go at it. So many of the PC players that have been playing since its release in 2014/2015 would probably consider me a newcomer and that's fine, but i'm not new to Elite at all. My favorite game back in the day was Elite that I mail ordered from the UK in 1985 and played on my Commodore 64 and achieved Elite status vector graphics and all. Before I got Elite Dangerous I bought and played every Call of Duty game, now I play ED more than any other game. I love it but do believe that the new crime and punishment system is a mess. I also believe that at some point FDEV will correct their mistake hopefully sooner than later.thanks OA keep the videos coming.
Every one keeps calling it the Crime & Punishment overhaul, but all I see is a raising of the Punishment to the nth degree whilst crimes remain unchanged. Being vapourised for hanging about a station slot for a tad too long isn't taking Crime seriously but Punishment now is.
Plus, the new C&P is simples to understand (well, it kind'a is once you know the rules), but...
Why do the skimmers no longer show whether they're legal or not, are we just supposed to guess?
Why can't we go to outfitters on a station not run by the faction we've upset, why would they care?
Why is it a death sentence to hover over not our landing pad?
What tortured logic came up with the idea of questionably legal modules as a way to resolve suicidewinder?
Fix the crimes before upping the punishment (creating a balanced justice system) and there'd be a lot less salt on the forums. Possibly.
Deleted member 115407
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Dude, you will never be able to convince some of these folks. The fact is that when their own actions lead them to a situation for which there is little to no escape, they will devise any excuse they possibly can to explain why being in the situation isn't their own fault.
You are not obliged to listen to what he's saying
You can just watch the beautiful pictures for the pleasure of the eyes
I didn't think it would come to this, but FD has managed to turn even the C&P into a GRIND.
Shame, really.
In the meantime, the game has become quite unstable for me (I have a wired broadband connection, so these crashes aren't comm drops, have sent various crash reports in). Lost 3 mill in mission rewards plus maybe another .5k in optional rewards yesterday, not a large sum for me but could mean a lot of work for another.
Never had that issue, only sporadic instances, before.
Shame, really.
In the meantime, the game has become quite unstable for me (I have a wired broadband connection, so these crashes aren't comm drops, have sent various crash reports in). Lost 3 mill in mission rewards plus maybe another .5k in optional rewards yesterday, not a large sum for me but could mean a lot of work for another.
Never had that issue, only sporadic instances, before.
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This+1
Clearly not, with your collective heads in the sand.
Stating that "things are fine the way they are" and overgeneralizing the issues to the point that you think people want no consequences is not a sufficient way to convince someone.
Deleted member 115407
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Yeah, but, things are fine the way they are. I just don't understand why you people want a game with no consequences.
Let me tell you a story.
One time, there was this guy who had made enough creds to get himself a 'Conda. He spent months fitting it out, Engineering and "A" rating as much of it as he could. He'd spent some time in many of the backwoods places in the Galaxy, trading stuff, hauling cr*p from one place to another; but he'd never really got any rep with either the Imperium or the Federation.
So, this guy, with one ship to his name remembers that there's a place he's been to in the Universe that's just perfect to ranking in the Federation. So he heads there. You may have been there yourselves - it's Ceos, and it's partner system Sothis.
When he gets there, he realises that his 'Conda can't land at Sothis Mining - it's too big. So he thinks "Hey, that's not a problem, I don't need masses of cargo - as I'm just running data missions, I'll buy a Sidewinder" So he does. He uprates the weapons a bit from stock he's held over from outfitting other ships and has them transported out to Ceos. So he's got a nice, fast Sidewinder that can at least try to fight back, if needed.
He flies data missions for days. All the while his rep is slowly increasing, until one day, he's interdicted. By this time, he's Allied with every faction and his Federation state is 100%, too.
He's set upon by some dude in a bigger ship, which is fine because our man can fly rings around it in his Sidewinder. As long as he stays out the way, he'll be OK. This dogfight continues for maybe five or ten minutes and them so System Authority vessels show up, much to our man's relief, and they start to take apart the ruffian.
Our chap continues to fight, helping the Police take down the miscreant, when, Shock - Horror! One of the Police vessels flies between him and the target. His pair of lasers strafe across the shields of the System ship, but don't go through - but wait - what's this? Our man now has a 200Cr Bounty for attempted murder, and the two System Authority vessels are turning on him, guns blazing. His shields are boiling away quickly.
Swiftly, our chap points his ship away and boosts like there's no tomorrow - praying that his FSD can carry him out of the system before he's turned to space junk.
Luckily, he makes it. His hull is down to 8%, but he's survived. He waits for his shields to rebuild and jumps back into the system, to dock, repair and re-arm.
He docks, but he's only given anonymous access. The shipyards are closed to him, the repair yards are shut and he's not able to buy anything.
The only way he can get out of this is by paying off his bounty at Robigo - 60LY away. Too far for him to make. He didn't think he would need a fuel scoop, or a bigger jump drive capability. He thought ahead, and made his ship capable of defending itself, but that's it.
The only way out of this is to suicide or to get a player to shoot him, ah but he plays PvE, not PvP. he could switch, but what's the point?
When the player logged out, he checked the journal logs. From Reckless Weapons fire to Attempted murder happened in under a second. The timestamps are the same. There was no opportunity to cease fire, there was no opportunity to apologise.
So, Ziljan, it's not always a "stupid thing". Sometimes it's done for a very good reason - but what C&P has done has ensured that every ship you have now MUST be capable of jumping potentially long distances to an IF.
If you get the same penalty (i.e. death) for murder, as you do for grazing a shield (let's call it criminal damage), then all you'll encourage is more murder. It's excessive, unbalanced and, above all else, that's what's stupid.
This seems like a pretty reasonable idea: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...and-Bounties?p=6577782&viewfull=1#post6577782
It's amazing how we can still have a C&P system that works but doesn't require illogical steps....
It's amazing how we can still have a C&P system that works but doesn't require illogical steps....
By all means, please continue to be a troll, it's just comical at this point bud.
The rest of us, and Fdev, will work on making the game better across the board.
Thanks
If you are silly enough to have a ship that can get stranded at an IF station, and you are forced to blow yourself up, then that is functionally no different than flying without a rebuy. Imagine if there was a "impound" option instead of "declare bankruptcy" option on the rebuy screen. THIS is what you are talking about: avoiding consequences of dumb decisions.
Deleted member 115407
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You manage to trigger an assault bounty with Class 1 lasers on a sidey? You mashed that trigger a lot longer than one second.
Besides, why not just let the cops kill you at that point? It's a sidey.
And lastly, if you're going to go out to a remote place like Sothis/Ceos, then you'd better make sure you have a backup plan, or a ship capable of getting the hell out of dodge should things go south. I have no issues with this gameplay.
Deleted member 115407
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That's actually a great idea... but I don't see how it is materially different than having to fly to an IF to clear your bounty?
You still have to fly from the detention center to wherever, so how does this alleviate the complaint about wasted time and annoyance?
Who said that we don't want to have consequences? How about reasonable consequences?
Not everybody enjoys the kind of "emergent gameplay" you do. How about putting yourself into other players shoes?
There are people with familys and kids. Solo players who just want to relax. Not everybody has the time to deal with notority and punishments in a videogame.
And its especially frustrating when some of these punishements are either hard to see or even unavoidable.
This comes from a player who loves the immersion of the game. I myself did have no "problems" with the C&P system because I DO play very carefully and pay attention to my oh so important "trigger discipline". Even before C&P I always payed my fines and bounties anyway - right away.
And it still es me off, because this game starts more and more to feel like an inconvenience than a game. I don't play it to grow, or learn to become a better human being. I also don't play it to become a "good responsible Commander"! I play it to relax and have fun. Like many others!
YOU yourself may see a challenge in this new system an incentive to grow and get better of whjatever. Good for you. I have no idea how much time you already invested and how you see yourself playing it but roleplay all your way and have fun. I get your side. I am more like you when it comes to fps or rpg games.
But at least TRY to understand the other side instead before patronizing them or calling them "braindead". You are insulting your fellow players and we all play the same game here. A game that frustrates a mayor part of its playerbase is not good for us and the devs.